Lance Armstrong banned for life, stripped of 7 Tour wins

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It's not accurate that no drug test of Armstrong's have ever tested positive. In 1999 six of 12 samples of his did indeed test positive. USATODAY.com - Story: Armstrong had six positives from 1999 tests

Armstrong immediately cited spiking and mishandling. But reports say that there is no way EPO could have gotten in his particular samples for the purpose of setting him up because the people the samples are attatched to are not identified. Although there is a round about way to do it..but there would have to be exact matching up and knowing exactly when that person with that sample did certain events. Also there was actually a problem that the procedure wasn't up to par so that left doubt. But give me a break..these people in the lab have 100s of samples all the time they ain't going thru all of that drama just to set up Armstrong.

So it wasn't (and isn't) a matter of NO Lance Armstrong positive dope test exists because some did exist..it's a matter of the fact that because of procedure and structure of the results table leaves question, and the unfortunate and inappropriate implications (at the wrong time) made by Dick Pound, former president of WADA and VP of IOC made about Armstrong that could have cause a lot of problems for WADA and the IOC and made it look like they were trying to just dog this guy. Which they were NOT having. It wasn't worth it to them to take it further at that time. Which is really no surprise. So Lance Armstrongs positive drug tests got sidelined.

Furthermore, among cyclists the ins and outs of doping is not all that uncommon nor how to beat drug tests. Some people get caught..sure but the super clever ones often don't. Armstrong has generated MILLIONS of dollars for many and has made over $100 million dollars for himself. There was always a lot riding on him to be on top . And I have no doubt Armstrong, his people, and his doctors knew the in and outs of how to deal with doping and the tests.

Some cyclists even explain how to cheat dope tests:
BBC SPORT | Other Sport | Cycling | Cyclists 'cheat dope tests'

Cheat Sheet. The Dope On How They Beat The Tests - New York Daily News

So it's BS that it can't be done and can't be done several times over. And I absolutely believe that Lance Armstrong (like many other athletes in cycling, the NFL, the UFC, and MBL, and NBA) doped to stay on top. But like Mark McQuire he's not going to give himself up under any circumstance..he's built a very cozy and rich life for himself. And to admit that he doped is committing financial suicide. He ain't going there. It's easier to just slink out of it than fight because if these witnesses come forward and testify at these hearings it will indeed cost him MILLIONS and blow the lid off his BS. It's not worth it to him and he nor his lawyers are stupid.

Bottom line: Many people don't want to remember their iconic hero as a cheating doper that made millions upon millions by being a liar and a cheat. So they'd rather believe this guy actually won the Tour de France all those times just by hard work and sheer will. Sure, it's a nice story. And well I think his cancer struggle and recovery warms many hearts.. I know it does mine and I love the Live Strong message and website..but I damn sure ain't stupid enough (and never was) to believe that Lance Armstrong never doped to win and people including several officials for USADA, WADA and IOC, all these witness that were fully prepared to testify against Lance are just so jealous so they are on a witch hunt. That he's the LONE cyclist that never did any drugs when it's so prevelant in that sport. Please.
Amneris likes this.
Not saying he didn't, just think there needs to be legitimate proof, as in beyond a reasonable doubt. Really suspect to me to go all the way back to 1999. No vendetta? Righhht.

From the article you posted:

Raymond Poulidor, a popular French cycling hero and three-time Tour runner-up, was clear about his position: "This is ridiculous. Why not retroactively test all the way back to 1903?"

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Not saying he didn't, just think there needs to be legitimate proof, as in beyond a reasonable doubt. Really suspect to me to go all the way back to 1999. No vendetta? Righhht.

From the article you posted:

Raymond Poulidor, a popular French cycling hero and three-time Tour runner-up, was clear about his position: "This is ridiculous. Why not retroactively test all the way back to 1903?"

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Originally Posted by juanab
The point is it's a lie that he's never tested positive. The fact that EPO was in his samples is legit. And the fact that EPO was in his samples back in 1999 shouldn't be discounted. He was active in cycling at that time and won during that time. So to question those samples is legit. It'd be idiotic to discount any of his time cycling or the testimony of people that were on his team, worked with him, or were around him. It all needs to be considered and taken into an account.

It's pretty moot now though. He chose not to go to balls to the walls for himself within the system and his wins have been stripped and he's been banned. He's still rich as hell and he still has his memories. I'm not feeling bad for the guy nor do I think there was any calculated witch hunt. If you or anyone else believes otherwise... um okay. NBD.
Amneris likes this.
It's not accurate that no drug test of Armstrong's have ever tested positive. In 1999 six of 12 samples of his did indeed test positive. USATODAY.com - Story: Armstrong had six positives from 1999 tests

Armstrong immediately cited spiking and mishandling. But reports say that there is no way EPO could have gotten in his particular samples for the purpose of setting him up because the people the samples are attatched to are not identified. Although there is a round about way to do it..but there would have to be exact matching up and knowing exactly when that person with that sample did certain events. Also there was actually a problem that the procedure wasn't up to par so that left doubt. But give me a break..these people in the lab have 100s of samples all the time they ain't going thru all of that drama just to set up Armstrong.

So it wasn't (and isn't) a matter of NO Lance Armstrong positive dope test exists because some did exist..it's a matter of the fact that because of procedure and structure of the results table leaves question, and the unfortunate and inappropriate implications (at the wrong time) made by Dick Pound, former president of WADA and VP of IOC made about Armstrong that could have cause a lot of problems for WADA and the IOC and made it look like they were trying to just dog this guy. Which they were NOT having. It wasn't worth it to them to take it further at that time. Which is really no surprise. So Lance Armstrongs positive drug tests got sidelined.

Furthermore, among cyclists the ins and outs of doping is not all that uncommon nor how to beat drug tests. Some people get caught..sure but the super clever ones often don't. Armstrong has generated MILLIONS of dollars for many and has made over $100 million dollars for himself. There was always a lot riding on him to be on top . And I have no doubt Armstrong, his people, and his doctors knew the in and outs of how to deal with doping and the tests.

Some cyclists even explain how to cheat dope tests:
BBC SPORT | Other Sport | Cycling | Cyclists 'cheat dope tests'

Cheat Sheet. The Dope On How They Beat The Tests - New York Daily News

So it's BS that it can't be done and can't be done several times over. And I absolutely believe that Lance Armstrong (like many other athletes in cycling, the NFL, the UFC, and MBL, and NBA) doped to stay on top. But like Mark McQuire he's not going to give himself up under any circumstance..he's built a very cozy and rich life for himself. And to admit that he doped is committing financial suicide. He ain't going there. It's easier to just slink out of it than fight because if these witnesses come forward and testify at these hearings it will indeed cost him MILLIONS and blow the lid off his BS. It's not worth it to him and he nor his lawyers are stupid.

Bottom line: Many people don't want to remember their iconic hero as a cheating doper that made millions upon millions by being a liar and a cheat. So they'd rather believe this guy actually won the Tour de France all those times just by hard work and sheer will. Sure, it's a nice story. And well I think his cancer struggle and recovery warms many hearts.. I know it does mine and I love the Live Strong message and website..but I damn sure ain't stupid enough (and never was) to believe that Lance Armstrong never doped to win and people including several officials for USADA, WADA and IOC, all these witness that were fully prepared to testify against Lance are just so jealous so they are on a witch hunt. That he's the LONE cyclist that never did any drugs when it's so prevelant in that sport. Please.
Originally Posted by *Marah*
No, he didn't test positive in 1999. They tested one sample out of two, five years later. Go back and read the article you linked. There's a reason why nothing happened with those charges. The testing was faulty.

I believe I said in my previous post that there are ways to go under the radar. However, the article you posted about cheating is from 2004. Please tell me how he cheated in his last win. I really want to know your theory.
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Quote:
When are women going to face the fact that they donít know their own bodies as well as men who have heard things?

Don Langrick
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No, he didn't test positive in 1999. They tested one sample out of two, five years later. Go back and read the article you linked. There's a reason why nothing happened with those charges. The testing was faulty.
Originally Posted by mrspoppers
I know the reasons nothing happened with those charges.. I stated why in my post. I guess you didn't bother to read it. Maybe to eager to defend Armstrong ? It was long though so I understand if you just read that and jumped to comment. To me, it's a flat out lie that no sample he ever gave popped positive. Because it did.

I said "in 1999" instead of "from 1999". Sorry. I get the gripe. Either way, the samples still were found to contain EPO. I explained the so called "faulty" accusations about the test right in that post and they aren't as cut and dry as you seem to want to suggest.

I believe I said in my previous post that there are ways to go under the radar. However, the article you posted about cheating is from 2004. Please tell me how he cheated in his last win. I really want to know your theory.
My post wasn't directed at you or anything you've stated. It was my opinion as to why I believe Armstrong is full of BS about never doping. He probably won in his last win like he always has..with dope.

To me, it's pretty silly to act like this last win (if he didn't dope) makes up for his cheating ways. I wouldn't care if he won 10 million times. It doesn't change the EPO was in his samples, witness accounts of his dope ways, or that it's a valid question to raise when a trial and investigation is going on as to if some samples were positive. Doesn't matter anyway..what's done is done. Dude has been stripped and banned. He chose not to fight...so it is what it is.

If you don't think that's relevant or you just simple disagree with my opinion... it's certainly okay with me. What do I care.. dude is not paying my bills. I'm just giving my thoughts like everyone else did is all.
The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency has banned Lance Armstrong for life and stripped him of all seven Tour de France victories that helped make him an American hero.
Originally Posted by TheNew Black

Good!

I was a little girl when I cheered Marion Jones in the Sydney *I think* Olympics and, being an athletic chick, it broke my heart when she admitted to lying and doping and sent to jail. I was never naÔve to the widespread 'roid and enhancements use in sports, but Marion let me down and it felt personal for some reason.

No matter what *others* are doing, you have to keep your integrity and play by the rules. Sooner or later there are consequences for everything one does (good and bad).

IMO there is no longer much integrity in professional sports, and I stopped watching the Olympics years ago so, next!

Last edited by Bella Rain; 08-25-2012 at 10:45 PM.
No, you're right. I got bored and didn't read your post too carefully. You lost me when you said he tested positive in 1999. Then your diatribe about what people think and why was silly. Believe me, the guy isn't my hero. I do, however, find the whole thing to be a joke. You, however, seem to be pretty wrapped up in this whole thing. Seriously, you wrote a ****ing term paper. (Granted, your sources were from 2004, so they were irrelevant...) A comment is a paragraph. I'm not sure what a term paper is.
The New Black likes this.
Quote:
When are women going to face the fact that they donít know their own bodies as well as men who have heard things?

Don Langrick
Bonsai Culturist
No, you're right. I got bored and didn't read your post too carefully. You lost me when you said he tested positive in 1999. Then your diatribe about what people think and why was silly. Believe me, the guy isn't my hero. I do, however, find the whole thing to be a joke. You, however, seem to be pretty wrapped up in this whole thing. Seriously, you wrote a ****ing term paper. (Granted, your sources were from 2004, so they were irrelevant...) A comment is a paragraph. I'm not sure what a term paper is.
Originally Posted by mrspoppers
Nope.. I'm just opinionated and I don't feel the need to limit how much I say on any given subject when and if I feel like it. I like celebrity stuff..never made any secret about that around here. If you have a problem with how long my posts are..that's your choice to just not read them. But it's really none of your business how much I post, when I post, or how long my posts are one way or the other. I'm doing me.. you do you.

So your comments about that instead of just sticking to your gripe about what I said about Armstrong is what's really irrelevant.
Amneris and Bella Rain like this.
He can't be stripped off his French tour titles, the US doping agency doesnt have that authority.

He may be a jerk, I've never met him so I can't say, but his story of recovering from 3? forms of cancer and then going on to race again is inspiring.
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Last edited by curlylaura; 08-26-2012 at 01:10 AM.
The arguments about the faulty testing have to do with the fact that the samples were frozen, which experts have said has nothing to do with it and they are accurate.

I know the onus should not be on the accused to show he didn't do something, but it is interesting that with all the resources at his disposal, he chose this route. I think he was advised not to deny it because there is proof out there and once the science advances a bit, he could be proved to have committed perjury which would send him to jail like Marion Jones. As it stands, he gets the benefit of the doubt, loses his titles but retains hero status due to the cancer struggle and gets to keep his foundation and remain wealthy. I also don't feel bad for him.
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He can't be stripped off his French tour titles, the US doping agency doesnt have that authority.

He may be a jerk, I've never met him so I can't say, but his story of recovering from 3? forms of cancer and then going on to race again is inspiring.
Originally Posted by curlylaura
The cancer survivor part is what resonates with me. At this point, I believe we would be hard pressed to find an athlete these days who hasn't taken a performance enhancement.




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From my understanding his titles cannot be stripped from him by the us anti doping agency. The agency that could strip his titles has been said to be on his side of the argument.
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My first thought on all this is that even if they strip his titles no one will forget that he won the races. Maybe centuries from now but most likely not. So if they strip his titles do the wins go to the second place winner? And if so will anyone even pay attention to that or change their memories of Armstrong's wins? Other than that how will this really effect him? I really believe most people will remember him and will associate him with the Tour wins. Will this really effect his fundraising abilities? Call me cynical but in this day and age of so many public figures behaving so unethically is this really going to hurt him?
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The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency has banned Lance Armstrong for life and stripped him of all seven Tour de France victories that helped make him an American hero.
Originally Posted by The New Black

I think my bigger question is why riding a bike well makes you an 'American hero.'

I don't think him being a dbag means that he was doping or that he should be stripped of his titles. It just means I don't care if he is innocent or not.
I haven't got the slightest idea how to change people, but I still keep a long list of prospective candidates just in case I should ever figure it out.
I read that he paid some people off so his tests always came out clean. Makes you think....hmm

I've never liked him so; I'm not surprised in the least.
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The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency has banned Lance Armstrong for life and stripped him of all seven Tour de France victories that helped make him an American hero.
Originally Posted by The New Black

I think my bigger question is why riding a bike well makes you an 'American hero.'
Originally Posted by rileyb
Yeah...maybe because he was an American winning against the French and on their home turf. You know how some Americans hated the French post 9/11.
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It seems that this is just the way of sport these days. You win at any cost, you immediately score massive endorsements. And if you finally get caught cheating 5 years down the road... well so what? You've made your money already and your 15 minutes of fame are long over.

That said, Livestrong has been incredibly successful in promoting cancer awareness and research. He didn't need to start that. And I hope that his foundation is his lasting legacy.


Here is an interesting take on the subject:

Laird Hamilton view on Lance Armstrong Doping


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IMO Lance Armstrong is a doper who took a by+cha$$ route for a reason.

Allegations have swirled around him for years and, usually, where there's smoke there is fire. He already got his chedda' (massive amounts of it, at that) and is nobody's fool.

I'm glad Armstrong is healthy and understand there is respect for him due to his battles with testicular, lung, abdomen and brain cancer, as well as his contributions to cancer treatment and research. However, for me, there has always been an elephant in the room.

It is no secret that studies have revealed the long-time use of certain performance-enhancing drugs to significantly increase one's susceptibility to cancer.

Last edited by Bella Rain; 08-26-2012 at 04:02 PM.
26 testify against Lance Armstrong in doping case - Yahoo! Sports

looks like theres overwhelming evidence and rumors his cancer were caused by it

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