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View Poll Results: Dear Abby's Advice on this one was...
Dead Wrong! 29 51.79%
Abby's Right! 27 48.21%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-10-2003, 02:04 PM   #21
 
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My father was very strict and uptight when it came to sex and I was never allowed to go on vacation with a boyfriend. I would just lie and say other people were going on the vacation with us, because everyone knows you can't have sex if other people will be there . For some reason this made it okay and my father could handle it. I'm 33 and have been on my own for almost 10 years and I STILL lie to my father when I go on vacation with boyfriends. Logically I know it's stupid and I can do whatever I want, but it's just easier to let him live in denial. Probably not the best way to handle such a situation, but it's the easiest.

I can't imagine that Dear Abby would tell this girl to lie, so I guess I agree with her advice assuming the girl wants to continue living with her parents.
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Old 12-10-2003, 02:07 PM   #22
 
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JenNChi,

The boyfriends mother is sending him on a cruise as a gift, and I believe the implication is that he can take someone along. So its not an expense for her

JennyC,

I believe that for most parents ignorance is bliss. Simple enough. By telling your dad that other people were going with you, it allowed him to believe that nothing would happen. Often times parents believe what they want to believe.
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Old 12-10-2003, 02:12 PM   #23
 
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It was a matter of principle with my parents. Whenever a situation arose with a girlfriend that would see her sleep-over... a vacation... a late-night out... either I or she slept on the couch or in another available room.

Not doing drugs... I understand and wasn't giving a "strict" interpretation of not extending beyond the property lines.

However, there are house rules and then there is trying to control someone's life. I flat-out disagree that living with your parents entitles them to make rules to govern every aspect of your life, including who you would take a vacation with.

Not only is it disrespectful to the daughter, it clearly demonstrates a lack of trust.

Is that what rules are supposed to do?

I don't disagree that she should move out. However, under her circumstances, I would flat-out tell them to either kick me out, or I will make appropriate arrangements to move out, but under NO circumstances would they EVER get away with a rule (at 23YO) that would preclude my taking a vacation. NEVER.

She lives at home. She isn't under house arrest.

She can have sex in a car. Sex over his house. Sex in a motel. Sex at work. She can have sex with her boyfriend anytime and anywhere she wants. So she should not take a vacation to appease her parents contention that her not going means they won't have sex? What if they have no intention of having sex until marriage?

This isn't about being a "house rule" it's about being a control freak, no question in my mind.

I might add... I am totally STUNNED at how close the vote is. I didn't post this with that expectation.
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Old 12-10-2003, 02:19 PM   #24
 
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Meph, are we discussing the insanity of the rule or the advice Abby gave?
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Old 12-10-2003, 02:28 PM   #25
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naturalT
Meph, are we discussing the insanity of the rule or the advice Abby gave?
i think it morphed. possibly my fault. well, mine and meph's.

re: the insanity of the rule: i think that the determination of insanity on this one is really going to depend on your individual beliefs, etc. obviously, this is an important issue to the parents. it's not like they are giving her a bedtime [ my parents tried to give me a bedtime when i came home from college. the bedtime was earlier than my curfew. i.e. if i was going out, i could be out until midnight, but if i was home, they wanted me in bed at 9pm. now THAT was insane. ]

i don't think this rule is necessarily a crazy one.
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Old 12-10-2003, 02:32 PM   #26
 
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Both.

I believe that Dear Abby should have advised her to take the vacation and move out. Not "get married" or "bring a chaperone" (which in my mind = decline the vacation).

I think people are VOTING based upon the sanity or insanity of the rule.

I voted that Abby gave the wrong advice... and *I* was discussing why I feel that she should absolutely stand up for herself and take the vacation.
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Old 12-10-2003, 02:50 PM   #27
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I agree with Mephisto- the woman is 23 yrs old , a consenting adult.
As far as going by the house rules, fine, but she has the right as an adult to go out of town with whomever she wants.

I also agree that her parents are controlling, and Abbey was wrong.
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Old 12-10-2003, 03:06 PM   #28
 
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I think Abby's advice missed the point - she approached her response as giving/denying permission, while missing the larger issue of balancing personal freedom and living up to the rules/expectations of those whose roof you live under.

My response, had I been Abby, would have been, "The rule may seem unreasonable, but, you live in their home. They have the right to impose rules in exchange for allowing you to live there. If this rule is unacceptable to you, you always have the option of moving out. At 23, I suggest you look into it."

About the rule itself - I find it unreasonable, but then again I disagree with its basic premise.

If we - for some reason - had 18+ offspring living with us, our "rules" for them would be more along the lines of the rules you'd have with an adult housemate than a minor child. Stuff like rent or comparable agreements and the basic courtesy rules that make sharing a home with other adults without killing them possible. Not curfews and rules about their sex lives.

Honestly, with an adult child living at home, my only sex rules would be to keep it private, quiet, and with legally consenting partners.
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Old 12-10-2003, 03:53 PM   #29
 
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Coming from a conservative family, I don't think her parent's rule is insane in any way, especially if there morals dont include premarital sex. I would never even dare ask my parents to go stay with a boy at any age. As someone mentioned earlier, even if I'm out of the house and 30 years old, I still wouldnt tell them. It's just respect.

As for abby's advice, I don't know. There are oother options that don't include giving in to your parents standards. She must be an old fashioned lady.
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Old 12-10-2003, 04:12 PM   #30
 
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Quote:
She must be an old fashioned lady.
Not so sure about that.

On the same day Abby told the 23 year old to "get a chaperone or get married," she also chastised a mother who tossed out her 19-year-old son's sex toys because it was a violation of his privacy and if she really thought her son and his gf weren't having sex or at least sexually intimate play, she should get her head out of orbit, return to earth, and be sure to talk to them about contraception. That's not exactly "old-fashioned" advice.

In any case, seeing the two letters side by side is an odd experience in cognitive dissonance.
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Old 12-10-2003, 04:17 PM   #31
 
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The fact she's asking Dear Abby to tell her "how to get around it" makes me think she probably needs her parents to tell her what to do. If she's a grown woman and wants to act like an adult, she should stop acting as if she's trying to get her parents to extend her curfew or trying to figure out how to get around it. She needs to either 1) get off the gravy train and move out , 2) tell her parents she's an adult, do what she wants to do and accept whatever consequences flow from that or 3) suck it up and let them control her life.
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Old 12-11-2003, 03:41 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mephisto

This isn't a case of "you live in my house, you live by my rules."
Bullsh--. If she doesn't like it she should move out. I can't stand anyone who has no problem mooching off mommy and daddy yet thinks it's unfair to live by their rules. Take the good with the bad. You don't like it their rules? Great no problem, then move and make it on your own. Welcome to the real world.

No she shouldn't "need" a chaperone. But if that's her parent's wishes, she should respect them (which it sounds like she's willing to do, and I give her that much credit).
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Old 12-11-2003, 04:45 PM   #33
 
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I don't agree with Abby's reply. I don't think that the only way around the situation is to either take a chaperone or get married. If a couple, regardless of age, want to have sex, they are going to FIND a time and place to do it - vacation or no.

I actually think it was WRONG for the parents to GIVE him a cruise, and then say, "You just can't take our daughter with you." That seems like a major set up, or something else is on the parents mind to do that to both him and the daughter. We also do not know why the daughter is still at home, what the parents stand is on other things (i.e. curfews, dates, etc...) and there are several other reasons that might spark their problems with her and going on vacation. I think that there is more to this situation than the daughter let on.

I do agree that she should move out. My brother is 23 and still llives at home, for his own reasons, of course. Although he isn't dating and all of that, there are still rules that he needs to follow while he's there. As for what he does outside of the house, he's an adult. He is allowed to make his own decisions, however, if he came home with 25 drunken friends, I doubt that would go over well.
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Old 12-11-2003, 04:46 PM   #34
 
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I think Abby was being sarcastic. I think her recommendation to “get a chaperone or get married” basically meant: Think of a creative way around the problem (like an adult), or start a life separate from mommy and daddy (like an adult).


I totally agree with CurlyG and mcp. I also agree with discg, who wrote, "The fact she's asking Dear Abby to tell her 'how to get around it' makes her think she probably needs her parents to tell her what to do." …The woman seems pretty dependent on her parents to me.

And it might not seem "fair" that a grown woman is being told what to do in her love life, but one of the problems that comes from being a materially dependent adult, is that you continue to be treated like a child. No matter how old you are, parents still seem to see you as their kid. And you will only be reinforcing them by sticking around their home past the onset of adulthood. How can you really expect to be considered and treated as an adult when you're still feeding into their urge to protect or control you? This is how many husbands (and some wives) have historically controlled the actions of their spouses. It’s called “Material Dependence” and it’s a mighty force.

I can't get too indignant about Voluntary Slavery I guess.
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Old 12-11-2003, 04:50 PM   #35
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2LilRob

I actually think it was WRONG for the parents to GIVE him a cruise, and then say, "You just can't take our daughter with you." That seems like a major set up, or something else is on the parents mind to do that to both him and the daughter. We also do not know why the daughter is still at home, what the parents stand is on other things (i.e. curfews, dates, etc...) and there are several other reasons that might spark their problems with her and going on vacation. I think that there is more to this situation than the daughter let on.
I thought it was *his* mom that gave him the vacation, but *her* parents that would not let her go.
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Old 12-11-2003, 04:53 PM   #36
 
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Oops. Maybe I should read the letter again. My bad.
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Old 12-11-2003, 06:20 PM   #37
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mephisto
This one struck me as I read it in the paper on Monday.

This chick is TWENTY-THREE YEARS OLD. She has the opportunity to go on a cruise. And she's letting her parents dictate whether or not she can go on a vacation?

This isn't a case of "you live in my house, you live by my rules." She's not asking permission to have the boyfriend sleep over.

Dear Abby screwed this one up. She doesn't need a chaperone and she doesn't need to get married. She probably needs to move out of her parents home, but if I'm in the same situation... I take the cruise despite my parents objections. They need to have faith in the daughter that she isn't going to be a &%$@#! machine on the vacation. And if she is... it's not her parents business at 23!

Thoughts?
I agree with Abby. I am baptist and thats what I was raised on... HOWEVER... I myself have taken trips.... a few nights or so with my boyfriend to places like Tahoe (okay his parents and grandma were going to be there) and to Sonoma. My parents trust me to make good judgements... And I know they mean well on certain things. Just trying to protect us girls. This IS a "if you live under my roof... you do as I say...."
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Old 12-11-2003, 06:59 PM   #38
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I can appreciate house rules and the adult "child" while living there( for whatever reason) should respect them.
However there comes a time when parents need to acknowlege their "child" is a full grown consenting adult and respect that.

If they were concerned about premarital sex, they should have taken care of that in raising. Now they "cut the cord" and allow their daughter to live her life.
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Old 12-11-2003, 07:23 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubyloxx
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mephisto
This one struck me as I read it in the paper on Monday.

This chick is TWENTY-THREE YEARS OLD. She has the opportunity to go on a cruise. And she's letting her parents dictate whether or not she can go on a vacation?

This isn't a case of "you live in my house, you live by my rules." She's not asking permission to have the boyfriend sleep over.

Dear Abby screwed this one up. She doesn't need a chaperone and she doesn't need to get married. She probably needs to move out of her parents home, but if I'm in the same situation... I take the cruise despite my parents objections. They need to have faith in the daughter that she isn't going to be a &%$@#! machine on the vacation. And if she is... it's not her parents business at 23!

Thoughts?
I agree with Abby. I am baptist and thats what I was raised on... HOWEVER... I myself have taken trips.... a few nights or so with my boyfriend to places like Tahoe (okay his parents and grandma were going to be there) and to Sonoma. My parents trust me to make good judgements... And I know they mean well on certain things. Just trying to protect us girls. This IS a "if you live under my roof... you do as I say...."
Yeah, I know on the surface this situations seems ridiculous to most, but if they ARE Baptist, you must consider that many Baptists:

don't drink...that means no open bar at weddings...EVER,
home school,
don't believe in unmarried people dancing...yes, even at weddings,
don't believe in unmarried people of the opposite sex touching...even in a platonic, casual manner,
get married to the first person they ever dated...both as virgins.

I could make an endless list...
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Old 12-11-2003, 09:50 PM   #40
 
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What type of Baptists were you raised around? My great grandmother was dyed in the wool Southern Baptist and was nowhere near that extreme. Sounds as if you're describing old school plain dress Mennonites or Amish or what we called "Pentecostals" where I grew up.
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