CocoT

+100000000000

It's called context. It's not always directly correlated to the present moment. Our identities are especially contextual. We each carry a lot of unseeable baggage (not the best word I know) such as our history, heritage, ethnic background, age, gender, sexuality, etc. Who you are in a conversation matters and is always relevant. It's not a stretch by any means at all.

It's easier and more comfortable to not "go there".


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sew and sew

Most analysts (according to the AP) praised the format of the debate last night. Their verdict was that it was conducive to being information heavy and solidifying contrasts.

At first I was nervous that there was going to be a scene between Lehrer and Romney. I kept wanting Romney to cool it and be appropriately cordial and LISTEN to the moderator.

Over time the bigger impression that Romney was making was that he was feisty and passionate about what he had to say...he wasn't going to miss any chance to drive his points home, and he wound up getting a little better with following Lehrer's moderation.

Think about it. If Obama had been the one in control, which in all fairness is much trickier because sitting Presidents like to be more diplomatic in their behavior, the criticism Lehrer's getting wouldn't exist.

Yes, Lehrer's moderation left the avenue open for someone to dominate the floor. Mitt Romney took better advantage of that opportunity than people expected he could.

As as aside, Romney's demeanor has always really ticked me off. Painfully phony. But last night for the first time ever I was able to respect him. Not for his aggressiveness, but just simply for being quick thinking and up for the challenge of debate, in fact, very eager for it. I know a lot of people who expected him to be slaughtered by the president. I wasn't sure how it would go, but I expected that Romney would probably at best hang in.

He's never impressed me when he's on his own sidelines and preaching to the choir. I'm thinking he's one of those people that thrive at expressing their positions if they're being directly challenged for them. He likes to function amidst opposition, that actually stimulates him.

The fact he wouldn't be the Romney we saw last night during the GOP debates tells me that if he were given the job of president, he would wind up being a pretty moderate Republican. When he's playing to his own party, he's unimpressive, just going through the motions, it's a means to an end that he's bs'ing his way through.

(That is not a good thing to me personally, though being popular with the GOP and not bs'ing isn't a good thing in my eyes either. But I think that's insight into the real Romney...judging by when he's most fake).

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journotraveler

This. When my sister got married, the priest at our church wanted my non-Catholic brother-in-law to agree to raise their kids Catholic. He didn't want to agree to that, and my sister didn't feel good about the priest asking that of them, so they opted to get married elsewhere, in a non-Catholic church. (My dad hated that, but there you go.)

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yossarian

Yes, but Lehrer did a poor job enforcing the parameters of the debate.

That said, I don't fault Romney for violating the rules - pushing the boundaries is an integral part of debate strategy. And Obama didn't lose because of the format, or because Lehrer was a pushover. He lost because he failed to capitalize on a host of opportunities, including Romney's inconsistencies, distortions and outright falsehoods.

Springcurl

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sew and sew

Alright, well I saw that said and it didn't get delivered in carefully rehearsed zinger style to me. I know what you're talking about, and it truly didn't have that 'feel' to me.

And again, the incentive to take a dig like that would have to be incredibly low, so low that there's way more compelling disincentive.

I guess the retort to that is that there's so many racists in America that I underestimate how Romney would find it advantageous to play to them.

Which basically ends the argument...because there's damning absolutes being accepted without question.

"My boys" aside, I thought the point he was making was more mean than called for. You can dig at someone's credibility in less blanketed ways....ways that don't make it sound like you believe this is your opponents character all around. ...They're just a liar. In British politics that would fit in fine, but Americans are usually more civil.

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“It was only a sunny smile and little it cost in the giving but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living.” - F. Scott Fitzgerald

sew and sew

Lehrer didn't do that poor of a job IF he's given some credit for approaching it like "well, these guys are really getting into this particular topic and duking it out, why get in the way of that?" Let the American people see how it goes.

The problem for one camp is that the other camp's guy seemed to be in control of that time. The president actually asked for the subject to be changed at one point, which you really want to steer clear of in debating. The moderator can be asking for that, the candidate shouldn't.

Lehrer probably wasn't expecting Romney to be so assertive and he rolled with it. He rolled with Obama when he took his 30 second 5 seconds. He would have rolled with the president more if the president would have turned it on more.

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Amneris

That I agree with. Facts can certainly be manipulated, refrd, etc.

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xcptnl

I am glad I did not watch it because I would be more skeered than I am from just reading this thread. I don't want mitt to be president. .

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Lotsawaves

I am Catholic. I converted in 1985. I'm doing it mainly for him. It's very important to him. He isn't insisting, but since I love him and know how important it is to him I am doing this. We have already decided to do a civil marriage 1st.

sew and sew

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curlyarca

Pretty much agree with all of your posts so far in this thread.

I am constantly amazed by the way the Republicans can spin literally anything into a positive. See: legitimate rape. One day they will be telling us that food is actually not needed and we can all get by on toenails.

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curlyarca

I must have heard wrong last night. Sorry. Probably some of the alkyhall I had.

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munchkin

Someone asked what I needed to hear to be convinced one way or the other. I'm not really sure. Maybe it is a combination of their side to all the issues and how they come across. . . how sure I would feel with them being our leader. I guess I don't have that "warm fuzzy" feeling quite yet from either. I do have one personal reason I am leaning towards one candidate. I'm not going to say what it is, but I asked my husband if that was selfish (I have always voted for the person I thought would be best for everyone). Has anyone here ever voted for a strictly selfish reason? Is that wrong?

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KookyCurl

There was def. overtalking on both sides. I was thinking that Jim should have just pulled out a bullhorn and been like "Times Up!"

RedCatWaves

Of course there is incentive for Romney to use this type of coded racial language.

1. It's red meat for his base.
2. It serves to degrade Obama.
3. It helps keep white voters who might be considering voting for Obama in line by reminding them, subtly, that Obama is "other".
4. Regular white folks aren't likely to notice this type of racial insult, so there is little chance of being called out on it.
5. Minority folks who do notice, aren't likely to be paid attention to if they complain about the racial insult, because Romney has plausible deniability.

That's why it's important for regular white folks who do notice to say something and not just dismiss it as a ridiculous claim.

curlyarca

If the debate last night was enough for someone to decide to vote for Mitt Romney, they probably weren't voting for Obama anyway.

Romney played Romney last night: "What do I need to do to make them buy what I'm selling?" And people bought it. I agree with Obama, he changed his stance pretty much a 180 last night....I'm sitting here giving him the side eye. People bought it. Hook line and sinker.

During the discussion about entitlements, he said the president gets entitlements: a plane and a house. He likened the president to one of his boys, behaving as boys do. It's easier to believe he didn't mean what he meant....because that is just to unacceptable for many people to believe....and it's just all in some people's heads. It's the same nasty coding used when people say state's rights. As an example: It reminded me of when a poster here said someone didn't have maternal instincts. If you didn't know the history of the poster it was directed at or just read it superficially, the real, nasty meaning of that zinger would have been lost on you. I know it took me reading it multiple times to get it (and that's only because of the remarks of of other posters on that thread), and by the second time I was like, "oh, no she COULDN'T mean that." By the third time I had to concede that she unfortunately did mean it that way, and it kind of figuratively took the wind out of me. It's a way of telling someone "f you, I hate your fing guts," without saying anything that necessarily links you to a direct insult.**

I didn't learn anything new last night. No one won because they just repeated what they've been repeating in ads.



**This is an example I am using to try to explain why many people assert that Romney was being very subtley nasty, dare I say bigoted, last night.

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mrspoppers

I am very much decided but my husband is not. The undecideds I know fall into two camps:

1. Historically democrat but not happy with Obama. They could have been easily swayed to vote republican but they don't like Mitt Romney and/or the social platforms of the republican party. (e.g. gay marriage, abortion, religion etc.)

2. Historically republican but don't like Mitt Romney or religion in government.

I think a lot of the undecideds aren't waiting to hear anything. They just don't love either candidate and they're trying to choose the lesser of two evils.

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LoloDSM

Thank you! If we all "waste" our vote in good independent or Libertarian candidates, maybe we can have better outcomes and choices.

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Narnia

This visual made me LOL. I hope he has one next time..

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