Hierarchy of Food Needs

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Interesting article. What do you think?

Sounds like the platinum rule to me. I wonder where Extreme Couponers would fit. Which makes me think of Quepon Queen, Honey Boo Boo's mom. On one episode she made dinner. It was "Sketti": butter melted into ketchup which was then poured over spaghetti. The mom said she was "raised on the ketchup and butter", and it got me to thinking.....that's poverty right there. I mean, at first I was kind of disgusted, and then mad at myself for being disgusted.

http://blackgirlsguidetoweightloss.c...heres-no-food/

"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer."

4a, mbl, low porosity, normal thickness, fine hair.

Last edited by curlyarca; 10-08-2012 at 05:55 AM.
This quote:

"However, fearing waste, a person functioning at a lower level on Satter’s Hierarchy of Food Needs is unlikely to choose unfamiliar food prepared in unfamiliar ways. Almost half of surveyed low-income parents say they avoid introducing new food items because their child doesn’t want them.”

Excerpted from Hierarchy of Food Needs: How Do You Get GOOD Food When There’s No Food? | A Black Girl's Guide To Weight Loss "

really resonated with me on 2 different levels. We are really struggling right now for a couple of reasons, and I make just enough so that we don't qualify for any help. In a week where I might only have 20 or 30 dollars to spend on food for my 3 kids and myself, I'm certainly not going to go out on a limb and try something new- if they don't like it, they'll be hungry. That's really relevant to me personally right now.

On a different level, I work primarily in a Head Start classroom and breakfast and lunch are prepared for us using primarily fresh foods. The children, who come from low income families, often have no idea what the food is and won't try it without a lot of coaxing and usually multiple introductions. We find this the most with fresh fruits and vegetables and we find that most all of them will eat cheese and bread when it is offered. This is different on Monday mornings, when many of the children eat ravenously (likely not enough food in the house over the weekend) as well as at the end of the month (food stamps have run out) when more children are more likely to eat.
Po likes this.
I'm glad you got something out of it. It made me reevaluate. The blogger for that website was against Mayor Bloomberg's ban of sweetened beverages over 16 oz in some restaurants in NYC. Interesting to note that good tasting food comes well ahead of instrumental (e.g., nutritious) food.


"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer."

4a, mbl, low porosity, normal thickness, fine hair.
That lines up really well with this blog post I read a while ago.

A small part:

The way my family generally shopped was this: First, you plan your protein. This is generally the most expensive part of your diet, and also the part which makes you feel like you have actually eaten a meal. If you begin your shopping with broccoli and orange juice and strawberries, you will not have enough meals. A person can eat nothing but chicken, and that might not be super healthy, but that person will not be undernourished or feel hungry all the time. If you eat nothing but ****ing strawberries? You can’t live on that. Do not confuse “low-calorie” with “healthy”, especially if you are trying to feed growing children. Your first priority as a poor person is to get enough food to not be hungry, and proteins and yes, fats, are highly desirable for that. So the first part of your money goes toward the largest and cheapest quantity of protein you can get. This tends to be fatty food like chicken thighs, hot dogs, fatty ground beef, peanut butter, eggs, and highly processed “cheese food”.
Read the whole thing.
Eres o te haces?
Those were both fantastic reads, with several good points. I read the first right after I woke up, and needed to read again because I wasn't caffeinated to attention. I'm glad I came back and read legends post as well.

I can't say that I've ever thought about what is more healthy to donate. If it's food, something filling that could be stretched meal wise, and something most people (kids) would enjoy, it's gold.

Based on the Honey Boo Boo comment I would like to add that its sometimes not just poverty, but neglect. My best friend grew up in a house where his parents had one stocked shelf of food in the refrigerator, and one fully stocked cabinet. This was for their consumption only. The kids were left with bread, peanut butter, and marshmallow cream. Sometimes they had almost rotten potatoes. Their parents could afford to buy more food and share. They just wouldn't. I've known other kids who grew up like that, and their eating habits today are still somewhat odd because of it.
When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

I also meant to mention that my mom worked for social services. She was head of the food stamp unit. I used to get off the bus at DSS and I would sometimes help with commodities. I would just put food in boxes. I didn't do anything that would invade privacy. I know there is great debate over food stamps and I know the meal plans changed drastically during the time my mom worked there. Regardless, this was one time that I saw complete passion and compassion from the workers. Especially the ones who gave instructions on how to plan meals and make them last. I was often a little confused on the changes and choices (they were too) but I was always blown away by the heart that went into it.

Shame about the government cheese though. I remember when the main factory/warehouse burnt down and they had to stop providing it. That was the most cherished and helpful item of all, and I do not think they ever added back.
When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

It's times like these that I really appreciate the non-hair board. Thank you for sharing the blog posts.

This really hits home for me as I am constantly trying to figure out new ways to ask for food (I work at a food bank) and how to explain the not-so-great food that sometimes ends up in the warehouse. Fortunately those post holiday candy donations come in handy with our partners who do drug rehab. We do have a shelf dedicated to odd donations. Like armadillo milk, or the random person who thinks its a good idea to donate a 40.

Right after having enough food, the second biggest worry I have to deal with is food safety. If people don't feel like they can get safe food from their food pantry or food bank, then we have a big problem.

In the fall, we're usually flush with food, but now, right after summer it's virtually empty. From my perspective, don't feel bad about cleaning out your pantry and donating it. Every item is inspected for damage and cleaned off with a disinfectant solution. Some pantries even have a small grocery-store feel complete with shopping carts.

And regarding food stamps, it's going to be a real bear to get a decent farm bill now that congress kicked that can down the road until after elections. The debate will get wrapped up in other fiscal budgeting issues, and I fear that there will be great compromise on food stamps and related programs like SNAP-Ed (nutrition education outreach).
hello.world.
Interesting to note that good tasting food comes well ahead of instrumental (e.g., nutritious) food.
Originally Posted by curlyarca
Instrumental food is not the same as nutritious food. "That person is thus in a position to consider choosing food for instrumental reasons: to achieve a desired physical, cognitive, or spiritual outcome.” The examples were people who eat strictly organic, or vegan, but it doesn't have to mean healthy. I just thought that point was worth clarifying.



I also found the article interesting. People so often make comments about "just eat better" or "Just eat less" or "just eat healthier"...it's not that simple. There's so much more that goes into a person's diet than just a simple formula.
"I don't know! I don't know why I did it, I don't know why I enjoyed it, and I don't know why I'll do it again!" -BART SIMPSON
Those were both fantastic reads, with several good points. I read the first right after I woke up, and needed to read again because I wasn't caffeinated to attention. I'm glad I came back and read legends post as well.

I can't say that I've ever thought about what is more healthy to donate. If it's food, something filling that could be stretched meal wise, and something most people (kids) would enjoy, it's gold.

Based on the Honey Boo Boo comment I would like to add that its sometimes not just poverty, but neglect. My best friend grew up in a house where his parents had one stocked shelf of food in the refrigerator, and one fully stocked cabinet. This was for their consumption only. The kids were left with bread, peanut butter, and marshmallow cream. Sometimes they had almost rotten potatoes. Their parents could afford to buy more food and share. They just wouldn't. I've known other kids who grew up like that, and their eating habits today are still somewhat odd because of it.
Originally Posted by Fifi.G
Oh....that is so sad. I teared up. That's horrible. Thanks for sharing.

"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer."

4a, mbl, low porosity, normal thickness, fine hair.
Interesting to note that good tasting food comes well ahead of instrumental (e.g., nutritious) food.
Originally Posted by curlyarca
Instrumental food is not the same as nutritious food. "That person is thus in a position to consider choosing food for instrumental reasons: to achieve a desired physical, cognitive, or spiritual outcome.” The examples were people who eat strictly organic, or vegan, but it doesn't have to mean healthy. I just thought that point was worth clarifying.



I also found the article interesting. People so often make comments about "just eat better" or "Just eat less" or "just eat healthier"...it's not that simple. There's so much more that goes into a person's diet than just a simple formula.
Originally Posted by Who Me?
I thought it could be based on the description. I haven't read the original paper yet. But I suppose you're right: none of the food classifications (or all of them) on the pyramid could be "healthy".

"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer."

4a, mbl, low porosity, normal thickness, fine hair.
That lines up really well with this blog post I read a while ago.

A small part:

The way my family generally shopped was this: First, you plan your protein. This is generally the most expensive part of your diet, and also the part which makes you feel like you have actually eaten a meal. If you begin your shopping with broccoli and orange juice and strawberries, you will not have enough meals. A person can eat nothing but chicken, and that might not be super healthy, but that person will not be undernourished or feel hungry all the time. If you eat nothing but ****ing strawberries? You can’t live on that. Do not confuse “low-calorie” with “healthy”, especially if you are trying to feed growing children. Your first priority as a poor person is to get enough food to not be hungry, and proteins and yes, fats, are highly desirable for that. So the first part of your money goes toward the largest and cheapest quantity of protein you can get. This tends to be fatty food like chicken thighs, hot dogs, fatty ground beef, peanut butter, eggs, and highly processed “cheese food”.
Read the whole thing.
Originally Posted by legends
Thanks for sharing, Finally got around to reading this. It is complementary.

"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer."

4a, mbl, low porosity, normal thickness, fine hair.
It's times like these that I really appreciate the non-hair board. Thank you for sharing the blog posts.

This really hits home for me as I am constantly trying to figure out new ways to ask for food (I work at a food bank) and how to explain the not-so-great food that sometimes ends up in the warehouse. Fortunately those post holiday candy donations come in handy with our partners who do drug rehab. We do have a shelf dedicated to odd donations. Like armadillo milk, or the random person who thinks its a good idea to donate a 40.

Right after having enough food, the second biggest worry I have to deal with is food safety. If people don't feel like they can get safe food from their food pantry or food bank, then we have a big problem.

In the fall, we're usually flush with food, but now, right after summer it's virtually empty. From my perspective, don't feel bad about cleaning out your pantry and donating it. Every item is inspected for damage and cleaned off with a disinfectant solution. Some pantries even have a small grocery-store feel complete with shopping carts.

And regarding food stamps, it's going to be a real bear to get a decent farm bill now that congress kicked that can down the road until after elections. The debate will get wrapped up in other fiscal budgeting issues, and I fear that there will be great compromise on food stamps and related programs like SNAP-Ed (nutrition education outreach).
Originally Posted by webjockey
I am really bad about donating food, like ever. I need to make a donation. It's easy to get into the habit of thinking inside the bubble and "I have plenty of food" and kind of forgetting that some people plain don't. Thanks for the insight.

The farm bill mess is ridiculous.

"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer."

4a, mbl, low porosity, normal thickness, fine hair.
Yes, food is expensive, especially if you don't have access to farmers markets or local foods. But one thing that bothers me is when people say 'it's all we can afford to eat'. There are other healthier things to eat that cost the same or less.
Canned tomatoes, a few dried herbs, and spaghetti would be the same or cheaper than butter, ketchup, and spaghetti. Brown rice vs white rice. Brown bread vs white bread. Canned unsweetened fruit vs sweetened fruit. Unsweetened cereal vs sweetened. On and on. There are healthier alternatives.
I know this is just a smart part of the big picture, but it still bothers me.
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Yes, food is expensive, especially if you don't have access to farmers markets or local foods. But one thing that bothers me is when people say 'it's all we can afford to eat'. There are other healthier things to eat that cost the same or less.
Canned tomatoes, a few dried herbs, and spaghetti would be the same or cheaper than butter, ketchup, and spaghetti. Brown rice vs white rice. Brown bread vs white bread. Canned unsweetened fruit vs sweetened fruit. Unsweetened cereal vs sweetened. On and on. There are healthier alternatives.
I know this is just a smart part of the big picture, but it still bothers me.
Originally Posted by jeepcurlygurl
I agree. It's a combination of whats cheap, and being lazy. Allowing your kid to eat from a bucket of cheese puffs is not okay. If you were that poor, you wouldn't be buying those kinds of snacks bc extra snacks are just expensive. When I was a kid I snacked on saltines or dry Ramen noodles. Cheese puffs would have been a luxury bc we had no money. I think using the economic situation is just an excuse for most people. My neighbors have enough money. Both parents work, and they take a lot of vacations. Their kids are fat. They eat pizza, macaroni and cheese, etc.

I have no patience for people who bring their kids up to be unhealthy and fat. It's hard enough to maintain health and weight as you age, setting a child up for obesity and destroying their metabolism with processed foods is giving them an unfair disadvantage. I think it's neglectful.
The articles above really address why people may eat the way they do and kind of fly in the face of the status quo for how we judge food and the people that consume that food. Not "people who raise their kids to be unhealthy and fat" and "people who use poverty as an excuse for not eating healthily."

Legends article really hit home for me when the blogger said eating beans makes you feel poor. I could really relate to that point. I have plenty of beans in my cupboards but I'm constantly saying "there's nothing to eat" because there's nothing I want to eat. And especially not beans!

It's funny how we define foods and the people who eat them. Your saltines and Ramen are another's cheese puffs. They're both pretty much grain and water with food coloring and salt in them, I fail to see the virtue in eating the former over the latter. But that's another point in the articles: some of us are at different positions on the pyramid so it may be more difficult to understand why people make the food choices they make. If I'm starving, no, I don't care if it's a cheese puff, saltine, or really old; I'm eating it. But if you're financially secure maybe your food security is up there, too, and you can eat Greek yogurt, hummus, and carrot sticks instead of peanut butter and jelly sandwich for lunch since you know it's not the last meal of the day so this satiety you're feeling doesn't have to last until breakfast tomorrow.

"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer."

4a, mbl, low porosity, normal thickness, fine hair.

Last edited by curlyarca; 10-08-2012 at 04:46 PM.
I resisted buying groceries today and this weekend because I have food but I'm obviously craving something specific. I have been trying to force myself to make something with what I have, and I also realize I retain that characteristic where you don't want to try something new. So with three eggs, jasmine rice, parsley, lemon juice and chicken broth I made avgolemono. What a cheap way to make something tasty.

See what I mean? I have food, just not what I want: ready made, good pizza, nachos, etc. I have all the ingredients for these things now, mind you. I'm food secure, no doubt. Now that, in my mind, is lazy and probably craving something else besides food. Social interaction maybe?
Josephine likes this.

"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer."

4a, mbl, low porosity, normal thickness, fine hair.
Those were both fantastic reads, with several good points. I read the first right after I woke up, and needed to read again because I wasn't caffeinated to attention. I'm glad I came back and read legends post as well.

I can't say that I've ever thought about what is more healthy to donate. If it's food, something filling that could be stretched meal wise, and something most people (kids) would enjoy, it's gold.

Based on the Honey Boo Boo comment I would like to add that its sometimes not just poverty, but neglect. My best friend grew up in a house where his parents had one stocked shelf of food in the refrigerator, and one fully stocked cabinet. This was for their consumption only. The kids were left with bread, peanut butter, and marshmallow cream. Sometimes they had almost rotten potatoes. Their parents could afford to buy more food and share. They just wouldn't. I've known other kids who grew up like that, and their eating habits today are still somewhat odd because of it.
Originally Posted by Fifi.G
Oh....that is so sad. I teared up. That's horrible. Thanks for sharing.
Originally Posted by curlyarca
It is a sad situation, and I do not understand how parents could be so selfish. My friend still sucks down food like he may not eat again, and another (12 year old) person I know has major food issues. He just wanted bread, because that's all he was given. It's taken years, and many cans of ensure, to get him healthy and add a few new foods to his diet. He still refuses to try many things.

I completely understood the beans comment too. We always had food but there were more than a few hard times when it was mainly pinto beans, for months. It's all I can do to choke down a damn pinto.
When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

This thread and the articles linked are eye opening. Thank you for sharing.
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You have to eat to live and I can see the logic with buying high, caloriedense foods. It may not be the best but you will die of starvation faster thanyou will be overweight or ill fed on too much fat or calories.

What about those people who have access to the foods but no access to theproper facilities to cook them or they do not have anyone to cook them? I canuse my childhood as a perfect example. My mother was disabled and not able tocook for my sisters and me. My sisters were 5.5 years old than me. A lot of night’sdinner was whatever we were able to rummage through the cabinets and find.Peanut butter and a spoon? Dinner. An uncooked package of Ramen noodles? Ripand open and eat uncooked because 1) you're hungry and 2) no one is old enoughto safely cook. My mother loved us and was not neglecting us - she just wasphysically handicapped with MS and she wasn’t able to really care for herselfeither. We would have starved had it not been for food stamps and local churchesleaving boxes of food on our porch...but they left noodles and I suppose theynever thought about how they were going to be cooked.

Even today I eat like a racehorse because growing up it was eat or have yourfood eaten on your because you're too slow and someone bigger and faster isstill hungry. I don't even realize it but I'm usually the first one done wheneating. It took me forever to stop finishing my son's leftovers because of Iwas afraid to waste food when he was a baby.

I know in my head that there is more food is I am hungry and I no one isgoing to take my food from me but it's so imprinted on my brain that it'ssecond nature.

I was willing to try new foods and we were offered free breakfast and lunchat school but we often ended up skipping eating because my sisters wereembarrassed because we got free school breakfast and lunch. So I often wentwithout breakfast, lunch, and didn't eat until nighttime and often it was takenfrom me before I had finished. So I learned to stuff food in when I could anddidn't give a thought to nutrition. It was pure survival mode.


Yes, food is expensive, especially if you don't have access to farmers markets or local foods. But one thing that bothers me is when people say 'it's all we can afford to eat'. There are other healthier things to eat that cost the same or less.
Canned tomatoes, a few dried herbs, and spaghetti would be the same or cheaper than butter, ketchup, and spaghetti. Brown rice vs white rice. Brown bread vs white bread. Canned unsweetened fruit vs sweetened fruit. Unsweetened cereal vs sweetened. On and on. There are healthier alternatives.
I know this is just a smart part of the big picture, but it still bothers me.
Originally Posted by jeepcurlygurl
I typed out a reply to this and it's not here so I'm going to try again...

It is really difficult to change societal norms about what we eat, even when what we eat is largely unhealthy. There are a number of reasons why but a major one imo is that the solutions that are offered to people are trite and condescending. People are not encouraged to think critically and think of creative solutions for problems or potential problems. This is an overall trend in our society and it goes far beyond food. A lack of critical thinking skills encourages dependence as well as reliance on what is familiar. I'm absolutely convinced it is all part of the cycle.

I am educated and I did not grow up in poverty. Even though my budget is quite limited right now, that gives me two enormous advantages over many people who are hungry. I am able to create and use a budget and I am able to identify which foods fit my budget and are more nutritious and filling.

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