View Poll Results: Does failure at abuse still count as abuse?
Yes 21 65.63%
No 0 0%
I don't know, but be glad he's out of your life! (My vote, btw) 11 34.38%
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

Does it count as abuse if it doesn't work?

So all my ex boyfriends have been wonderful, except one. He was a mentally unstable idiot, who was good at hiding it. Some really awful things happened in his life all at once, and his true colors came out after that point. One thing I haven't ever decided is, was he abusive or not?

He used to say things he *thought* would make me upset, because he was insecure about them. Thing is, comments about appearance, weight, "friends" of the same gender, job, intelligence-none of these things ever bothered me, except to tell him that if he thought someone else was more attractive, he should stop wasting time on me. He used to make statements such as "If I did such-and-such you'd believe I want to be with you. Fact of the matter is, we were in different states, and he'd drive 18 hours to come see me. That kind of showed me he wanted to see me, I think.

Anyway, he was TRYING to be verbally abusive, and looking back I can see that, but nothing he said ever bothered me enough for it to work. So, was he abusive or not?

EDIT: Don't worry, there's no residual torment. I just think it's funny that after the relationship I realized he'd been *trying* to make me feel bad, and it didn't work!
The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
-Speckla

But at least the pews never attend yoga!
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,210
He just sounds emotionally unstable and immature...possibly even disillusioned with life.



Code:
I think it takes one to know one.


*hangs head in shame*

My...my spelling is bad...
He just sounds emotionally unstable and immature...possibly even disillusioned with life.



Code:
I think it takes one to know one.


*hangs head in shame*

My...my spelling is bad...
Originally Posted by slinky1
You know, at first I took it as all the bad things happening to him at once (best friend died of a heart attack, laid off, two good friends killed on 9/11) but in the end decided it was a life lesson that there actually are truly evil people out there.
The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
-Speckla

But at least the pews never attend yoga!
I voted that he was abusive.
Reasons are that there was intent to be abusive, and if it had been many other people, they would have felt hurt. As it is, even though you weren't actually upset by his words, the fact that he was saying them at all can't have been very nice.

This situation brought to mind the case of R v. Shivpuri. In this case, Shivpuri was convicted of drug dealing even though the powder he was selling wasn't a drug. He believed it to be a drug.

So yeah, I'd definitely say he was abusive.

You're best of out of it, you deserve far far better. =)

You're best of out of it, you deserve far far better. =)
Originally Posted by Binky
Thanks!

It was a good life lesson to me-that maybe I shouldn't always think the best of people, because sometimes they don't deserve it. I do definitely still think the best of people until given reason not to anyway.

It's just so funny to look back on. I think he got more angry as I didn't get upset, and that makes it even funnier to me.
The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
-Speckla

But at least the pews never attend yoga!
HEY................did you date my ex too??? - SOUNDS JUST like him!

You know...they say that hindsight is 20/20, and this DOES seem like emotional abuse (verbal). There was this article in Dear Abby a while back (sorry - I couldn't find it) on abusive relationships...and the scarey part is that it can be SO SUBTLE, that you don't even recognize it! Guess that if you don't see 'bruises' on people, you don't classify it as abuse, which is NOT true. The constant putting me down, belittling, comments about my looks, talking about his ex all the time, my lack of education, my job title, the money I made, pushing for exclusive relationship almost immediately, being all nice and sweet one moment and then flip out on me the next...only to apologize 10 mins later saying that I 'made him mad'. On and on this went for a year - until finally I had had enough!! If you are curious about this, I would highly suggest you check out that Dear Abby article - I believe there were 15 points and my ex met 9 of them!!!

thank GOD he's gone..........
People will always do what they want to do...no matter what you say!
HEY................did you date my ex too??? - SOUNDS JUST like him!

You know...they say that hindsight is 20/20, and this DOES seem like emotional abuse (verbal). There was this article in Dear Abby a while back (sorry - I couldn't find it) on abusive relationships...and the scarey part is that it can be SO SUBTLE, that you don't even recognize it! Guess that if you don't see 'bruises' on people, you don't classify it as abuse, which is NOT true. The constant putting me down, belittling, comments about my looks, talking about his ex all the time, my lack of education, my job title, the money I made, pushing for exclusive relationship almost immediately, being all nice and sweet one moment and then flip out on me the next...only to apologize 10 mins later saying that I 'made him mad'. On and on this went for a year - until finally I had had enough!! If you are curious about this, I would highly suggest you check out that Dear Abby article - I believe there were 15 points and my ex met 9 of them!!!

thank GOD he's gone..........
People will always do what they want to do...no matter what you say!
HEY................did you date my ex too??? - SOUNDS JUST like him!

You know...they say that hindsight is 20/20, and this DOES seem like emotional abuse (verbal). There was this article in Dear Abby a while back (sorry - I couldn't find it) on abusive relationships...and the scarey part is that it can be SO SUBTLE, that you don't even recognize it! Guess that if you don't see 'bruises' on people, you don't classify it as abuse, which is NOT true. The constant putting me down, belittling, comments about my looks, talking about his ex all the time, my lack of education, my job title, the money I made, pushing for exclusive relationship almost immediately, being all nice and sweet one moment and then flip out on me the next...only to apologize 10 mins later saying that I 'made him mad'. On and on this went for a year - until finally I had had enough!! If you are curious about this, I would highly suggest you check out that Dear Abby article - I believe there were 15 points and my ex met 9 of them!!!

thank GOD he's gone..........
People will always do what they want to do...no matter what you say!
Yes, manipulation in order to control someone is abuse, IMO.

I was born to be a pessimist. My blood type is B Negative.
HEY................did you date my ex too??? - SOUNDS JUST like him!

You know...they say that hindsight is 20/20, and this DOES seem like emotional abuse (verbal). There was this article in Dear Abby a while back (sorry - I couldn't find it) on abusive relationships...and the scarey part is that it can be SO SUBTLE, that you don't even recognize it! Guess that if you don't see 'bruises' on people, you don't classify it as abuse, which is NOT true. The constant putting me down, belittling, comments about my looks, talking about his ex all the time, my lack of education, my job title, the money I made, pushing for exclusive relationship almost immediately, being all nice and sweet one moment and then flip out on me the next...only to apologize 10 mins later saying that I 'made him mad'. On and on this went for a year - until finally I had had enough!! If you are curious about this, I would highly suggest you check out that Dear Abby article - I believe there were 15 points and my ex met 9 of them!!!

thank GOD he's gone..........
Originally Posted by kurls
Sounds a lot like mine, except that he insulted me for having MORE education than he did, and for having a job when he'd been laid off. As you can see, a reason it just didn't work for me-I didn't mind having more education than he did! LOL

It was when he started flipping out for no reason that I stood back and said "no way!" He claimed that I was "pushing his buttons" and told me he was going to a shrink who said I really needed help. I told him that he should tell his shrink that he was flipping out because I was pushing his buttons, and see what the reaction was to THAT. He stopped going shortly afterward, so I have a hunch he did tell her about that, and didn't like the answer she gave him.
The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
-Speckla

But at least the pews never attend yoga!
I knew a teenager in my neighborhood who tried to build a pipe bomb. He failed. So I guess he's not violent.

It has to start somewhere.

I think if someone isn't "good" at being abusive yet, they need someone or someones to recruit into their training program.

Sometimes relationships make great internships for people like him, who may go on to become more practiced and refined abuse specialists ...unless of course some great intervention or tragedy takes place which causes such a person to change for the positive.

I had to edit this to say: To be fair, someone like the guy you describe could --I suppose-- also stay more or less at the same level of lamely acting out without getting worse ...rather stagnating in his own lack of insight and growth.
3b/c?

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I knew a teenager in my neighborhood who tried to build a pipe bomb. He failed. So I guess he's not violent.

It has to start somewhere.

I think if someone isn't "good" at being abusive yet, they need someone or someones to recruit into their training program.

Sometimes relationships make great internships for people like him, who may go on to become more practiced and refined abuse specialists ...unless of course some great intervention or tragedy takes place which causes such a person to change for the positive.

I had to edit this to say: To be fair, someone like the guy you describe could --I suppose-- also stay more or less at the same level of lamely acting out without getting worse ...rather stagnating in his own lack of insight and growth.
Originally Posted by Korkscrew
Good points. I just changed the title to "does it count as abuse" because I do believe that it counts as abusive if he's TRYING to be, but does it actually count as abuse? For example, the kid who tries to make a pipe bomb is violent in nature, but would be tried for attempting violence as opposed to actual violence.

This guy is NOT a good person, and while I hope something can change him for the positive, I doubt it. I'm glad I know so many other guys who *are* good people to show me that he's the exception, not the rule!
The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
-Speckla

But at least the pews never attend yoga!
There was this article in Dear Abby a while back (sorry - I couldn't find it) on abusive relationships...and the scarey part is that it can be SO SUBTLE, that you don't even recognize it!
Originally Posted by kurls
Abby has ran this item several times. I clipped it from my newspaper in the early 90's. Here is a cut/pasted reprint:

The following warning signs of an abusive partner have been adapted with permission from the Project for Victims of Family Violence in Fayetteville, Ark. You will spot your abuser in many of them:

Pushes for quick involvement: Comes on strong, claiming, "I've never felt loved like this by anyone." Pressures for an exclusive commitment almost immediately.

Jealous: Excessively possessive; calls constantly or visits unexpectedly; prevents you from going to work because "you might meet someone."

Controlling: Interrogates you intensely (especially if you're late) about whom you talked to and where you were; keeps all the money; insists you ask permission to go anywhere or do anything.

Unrealistic expectations: Expects you to be the perfect mate and meet every need.

Isolation: Tries to cut you off from family and friends; accuses people who are your supporters of "causing trouble."

Blames others for problems or mistakes: It's always someone else's fault if something goes wrong.

Makes others responsible for his or her feelings: The abuser says, "You make me angry," instead of "I am angry."

Hypersensitivity: Is easily insulted, claiming hurt feelings when he or she is actually mad. Rants about the injustices of things that are just a part of life.

Cruelty to animals and children: Kills or punishes animals brutally. Also, may expect children to do things that are beyond their ability or may tease them until they cry.

"Playful" use of force during sex: Enjoys throwing you down or holding you down against your will during sex; finds the idea of rape exciting.

Verbal abuse: Constantly criticizes or says blatantly cruel, hurtful things; degrades, curses, calls you ugly names.

Rigid sex roles: Expects you to serve, obey, remain at home.

Sudden mood swings: Switches from sweet to violent in minutes.

Past battering: Admits to hitting a mate in the past, but says the person "made" him (or her) do it.

Threats of violence: Says things like, "I'll break your neck," or "I'll kill you," and then dismisses them with "I didn't really mean it."

I was born to be a pessimist. My blood type is B Negative.
Good points. I just changed the title to "does it count as abuse" because I do believe that it counts as abusive if he's TRYING to be, but does it actually count as abuse? For example, the kid who tries to make a pipe bomb is violent in nature, but would be tried for attempting violence as opposed to actual violence.

This guy is NOT a good person, and while I hope something can change him for the positive, I doubt it. I'm glad I know so many other guys who *are* good people to show me that he's the exception, not the rule!
Originally Posted by NetG
I think you just made a good point. Since abuse is an act UPON someone or something, an attempt to act upon someone that fails, cannot technically be considered an act of abuse. As I understand it, in order for abuse to take place, at least one victim is required to justify the situational application of the word "abuse". The act of antagonism alone isn't enough.

You said: "For example, the kid who tries to make a pipe bomb is violent in nature, but would be tried for attempting violence as opposed to actual violence." ...Yup. And I think the point that concerns me most is:

Most of the time both the person who attempts the act, as well as the one who follows through, are likely to be on the same violent trajectory. That's why I've become more careful about who I invite into my life space. Unfortunately, I've had to learn some of this the hard way!

I'm happy to hear you still have hope that there are good guys out there. I agree wholeheartedly. And I'm sure you'll find one, too
3b/c?

Ringlet Fandango! ... Where curly ideas roam free

* 2 blogs this week: Pictures of My (Sorta) Big Chop! AND Turn a Nightmare Product into a Dream* My Albums
Hmmm...Was his name Richard? This guy sounds all too familiar to me.

Anyway, after going for therapy with Richard for a few months (because he cried everytime I tried to break up with him), I was told by the therapist that there's a syndrome known as "Small Penis Syndrome" and Richard suffered from this. It is very real (the penis isn't always small), but it's a huge insecurity problem and it sounds as though your ex might have a case of this. The amazing thing is generally the person is fine with everyone except the person he becomes intimate with. Other people thought I was hallucinating when I told them that he was sadistic. Intimacy brings out the worst in some people.

I do feel bad for your ex-boyfriend because he's had so many tragedies simultaneously in his life and you probably felt sorry for him too. Is it possible that he had a breakdown and that's why he changed?
I once had an emotionally abusive boyfriend 2 years ago. I was 19 and he was 26 (I refuse to date someone that much older than me... the bigger the age gap, the bigger the baggage). He would say things to put me down just so could be there to bring be back up. I finally realized what was going on when a friend pointed something small out about his character. Then I realized what was up...everything "No guy will ever treat you the way I do..." And more things...much more hurtful things. But I got strong and kicked him to the curb. Eventually he stopped calling and I'm glad.
3 b/c curls with bangs.
Hmmm...Was his name Richard? This guy sounds all too familiar to me.

Anyway, after going for therapy with Richard for a few months (because he cried everytime I tried to break up with him), I was told by the therapist that there's a syndrome known as "Small Penis Syndrome" and Richard suffered from this. It is very real (the penis isn't always small), but it's a huge insecurity problem and it sounds as though your ex might have a case of this. The amazing thing is generally the person is fine with everyone except the person he becomes intimate with. Other people thought I was hallucinating when I told them that he was sadistic. Intimacy brings out the worst in some people.

I do feel bad for your ex-boyfriend because he's had so many tragedies simultaneously in his life and you probably felt sorry for him too. Is it possible that he had a breakdown and that's why he changed?
Originally Posted by Bettyboop
Nope, not Richard.

I've been told my ex was super insecure, that he had PTSD, lots of things. But he definitely acted more sane around other people. My brother was visiting me, and had gotten into town the day the ex (who was the ex by then!) called and left about 10 answering machine messages alternately threatening me, pleading with me, etc.. He told me that as nice as he had seemed in person, there was clearly something SERIOUSLY wrong with him, and I should stay as far away as possible. By then, I totally agreed.

I don't think it's because of all the bad things that happened at once-because he talked about his ex girlfriends the way he started talking about me. He'd tell me how nothing he did was ever good enough, how mean they were, yadda yadda yadda. It was crazy, because all I ever did was try to tell him how much I appreciated the nice things he'd do-but once he started flipping out, there wasn't anything good I COULD say!
The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
-Speckla

But at least the pews never attend yoga!
I don't think it's because of all the bad things that happened at once-because he talked about his ex girlfriends the way he started talking about me. He'd tell me how nothing he did was ever good enough, how mean they were, yadda yadda yadda. It was crazy, because all I ever did was try to tell him how much I appreciated the nice things he'd do-but once he started flipping out, there wasn't anything good I COULD say!
_________________

Hi NetG,

I could have sworn it was Richard making the rounds.

So, it was always the woman's fault and not his that things always went sour. This guy is going to one day have to face that he's the problem and not all of the women, but that could be many, many years. Richard was in his 40's and still thought that he was fine and all of the women he chose had the problem. You are so lucky to be rid of him - That was my vote.

I am happy that I dated someone like Richard, because never again did I take for granted, kind, loving and supportive men. The abuse made me crave true intimacy which I found soon afterwards.
By Rubyloxx:

once had an emotionally abusive boyfriend 2 years ago. I was 19 and he was 26 (I refuse to date someone that much older than me... the bigger the age gap, the bigger the baggage). He would say things to put me down just so could be there to bring be back up. I finally realized what was going on when a friend pointed something small out about his character. Then I realized what was up...everything "No guy will ever treat you the way I do..." And more things...much more hurtful things. But I got strong and kicked him to the curb. Eventually he stopped calling and I'm glad.
Rubyloxx, that is very interesting information because the person that was emotionally abusive to me was 12 years older than myself. It was the first and last time that I ever dated someone so much older. I wonder if there is something to this. IMO, due to this type of guy's obvious insecurities, he chooses a younger woman, partly to feed his own ego, but perhaps an abusive guy hopes that a younger woman won't be as savvy and catch on to their sadistic disorder as quickly as a woman their own age will. Also, a younger woman can be controlled easier. Come to think of it, the woman that this guy dated before me was also much younger than him.
There was this article in Dear Abby a while back (sorry - I couldn't find it) on abusive relationships...and the scarey part is that it can be SO SUBTLE, that you don't even recognize it!
Originally Posted by kurls
Abby has ran this item several times. I clipped it from my newspaper in the early 90's. Here is a cut/pasted reprint:

The following warning signs of an abusive partner have been adapted with permission from the Project for Victims of Family Violence in Fayetteville, Ark. You will spot your abuser in many of them:

Pushes for quick involvement: Comes on strong, claiming, "I've never felt loved like this by anyone." Pressures for an exclusive commitment almost immediately.

Jealous: Excessively possessive; calls constantly or visits unexpectedly; prevents you from going to work because "you might meet someone."

Controlling: Interrogates you intensely (especially if you're late) about whom you talked to and where you were; keeps all the money; insists you ask permission to go anywhere or do anything.

Unrealistic expectations: Expects you to be the perfect mate and meet every need.

Isolation: Tries to cut you off from family and friends; accuses people who are your supporters of "causing trouble."

Blames others for problems or mistakes: It's always someone else's fault if something goes wrong.

Makes others responsible for his or her feelings: The abuser says, "You make me angry," instead of "I am angry."

Hypersensitivity: Is easily insulted, claiming hurt feelings when he or she is actually mad. Rants about the injustices of things that are just a part of life.

Cruelty to animals and children: Kills or punishes animals brutally. Also, may expect children to do things that are beyond their ability or may tease them until they cry.

"Playful" use of force during sex: Enjoys throwing you down or holding you down against your will during sex; finds the idea of rape exciting.

Verbal abuse: Constantly criticizes or says blatantly cruel, hurtful things; degrades, curses, calls you ugly names.

Rigid sex roles: Expects you to serve, obey, remain at home.

Sudden mood swings: Switches from sweet to violent in minutes.

Past battering: Admits to hitting a mate in the past, but says the person "made" him (or her) do it.

Threats of violence: Says things like, "I'll break your neck," or "I'll kill you," and then dismisses them with "I didn't really mean it."
Originally Posted by RoseAnnaDana
thank you!! Everytime this article prints in the paper, I re-read it and just shake my head...because it brings back SO many memories. My psycho ex (who will remain nameless) put me through SO much mentally, emotionally, and ALMOST physically (came close to hitting me one night). What didn't help was that he was a sadistic LIAR and also that his ex-girlfriend was always 'after' him....so he used that insecurity to manipulate just about everything. GOD!!! When I dumped him - it was like I could finally BREATHE a sigh of relief because that jerk was gone.

So to anyone that is 'curious' as to whether or not they are being 'abused' please do your research. If your friends and family are telling you he's 'no good' - take the hint and look deeper into the relationship. That article posted is a GOOD start!!
People will always do what they want to do...no matter what you say!

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