Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Jovan Belcher kills girlfriend, takes own life

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this article really struck a nerve. it really made me think of how some men act when a woman is pregnant and at her most vulnerable state. i'm sickened by this whole story and i think the author of the article says what many won't say. it's terrible. i know from personal experience that some men are downright mean and insensitive during what should be the most special time in a couples lives.
Originally Posted by luvmylocs

Because mind you, Mr. Belcher managed to not kill his mother who was in the next room. He managed not to kill the security guard at the Kansas City Chief’s stadium. He managed not to kill his coach and the team manager. So were these some special “concussions” that only affected the part of the brain that deals with girlfriends?

I was thinking that, if his mom was inthe house, .....and he shot her 9 times???

I just wish these men would have enough sanity left to shoot themselves FIRST.
Originally Posted by Springcurl
Murder-suicides like that are all about the murder, not the suicide. For some abusers, nothing is more important than controlling their victims, and the ultimate act of control is deciding whether someone lives or dies. So they commit the murder, and then kill themselves simply to avoid punishment. They're not suicidal, they're just that obsessed with being abusive.

I seriously doubt the baby or the fact they had a baby had anything to do w/ this.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
In abusive relationships, pregnancy and childbirth tend to trigger even worse abuse. The abuser feels threatened by the fetus/baby, viewing it as a rival for the mother's love and attention.
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Last edited by Eilonwy; 12-04-2012 at 10:54 PM.
if he was having financial issues (yeah, if you're driving a bentley while renting a home) then maybe that had more bearing on his mental state than all the other issues presented.

not sure why race is being mentioned at all.
there are many black football players across the nation and you don't see a rash of killing by black football players.

eta,

When Belcher arrived home at around 7 a.m., he and Perkins began arguing. Perkins was reportedly upset that Belcher had stayed out so late.


i'm sure the fact that he spent the night with this woman is what precipitated the argument.

Last edited by frau; 12-05-2012 at 01:34 AM.
I just wish these men would have enough sanity left to shoot themselves FIRST.
Originally Posted by Springcurl
Murder-suicides like that are all about the murder, not the suicide. For some abusers, nothing is more important than controlling their victims, and the ultimate act of control is deciding whether someone lives or dies. So they commit the murder, and then kill themselves simply to avoid punishment. They're not suicidal, they're just that obsessed with being abusive.

I seriously doubt the baby or the fact they had a baby had anything to do w/ this.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
In abusive relationships, pregnancy and childbirth tend to trigger even worse abuse. The abuser feels threatened by the fetus/baby, viewing it as a rival for the mother's love and attention.
Originally Posted by Eilonwy
I think Springcurl was just venting...
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No MAS.

I am the new Black.

"Hope the Mail are saving space tomorrow for Samantha Brick's reaction piece on the reactions to her piece about the reactions to her piece." ~ Tweet reposted by Rou.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Kimshi4242

http://www.tumblr.com/blog/kimshi4242
I just wish these men would have enough sanity left to shoot themselves FIRST.
Originally Posted by Springcurl
Murder-suicides like that are all about the murder, not the suicide. For some abusers, nothing is more important than controlling their victims, and the ultimate act of control is deciding whether someone lives or dies. So they commit the murder, and then kill themselves simply to avoid punishment. They're not suicidal, they're just that obsessed with being abusive.

I seriously doubt the baby or the fact they had a baby had anything to do w/ this.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
In abusive relationships, pregnancy and childbirth tend to trigger even worse abuse. The abuser feels threatened by the fetus/baby, viewing it as a rival for the mother's love and attention.
Originally Posted by Eilonwy
I think Springcurl was just venting...
Originally Posted by The New Black
Yes, I was.


Obamacare is not a blueprint for socialism. You're thinking of the New Testament. ~~ John Fugelsang



What is even more shocking is that ESPN and this guy's teammates/fellow players are paying tribute to him. Airing tweets about what a great guy and player he was, like he died in a car accident or something. People are having toasts to him outside his childhood home and paying tribute and they are airing them on TV. He KILLED HIS GIRLFRIEND, what the f are people celebrating? It's disgusting.
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I haven't got the slightest idea how to change people, but I still keep a long list of prospective candidates just in case I should ever figure it out.
^^^Agreed. It reminds me of Penn State's support of Joe Paterno in the Sandusky scandal...Gross.
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No MAS.

I am the new Black.

"Hope the Mail are saving space tomorrow for Samantha Brick's reaction piece on the reactions to her piece about the reactions to her piece." ~ Tweet reposted by Rou.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Kimshi4242

http://www.tumblr.com/blog/kimshi4242
What is even more shocking is that ESPN and this guy's teammates/fellow players are paying tribute to him. Airing tweets about what a great guy and player he was, like he died in a car accident or something. People are having toasts to him outside his childhood home and paying tribute and they are airing them on TV. He KILLED HIS GIRLFRIEND, what the f are people celebrating? It's disgusting.
Originally Posted by rileyb

^^I thought that was strange, too. If he hadn't committed suicide, he would be in jail now or trying to get a bond hearing. Would they be talking about how he was such a good guy then?

I do kinda of get it, though. His friends and family don't want to believe that he was capable of something so heinous, so they have to try to explain away somehow.


eta,

When Belcher arrived home at around 7 a.m., he and Perkins began arguing. Perkins was reportedly upset that Belcher had stayed out so late.


i'm sure the fact that he spent the night with this woman is what precipitated the argument.
It could be. I just read an article that said that, after a night of drinking & partying, he was camped outside of another woman's apartment at 1am, waiting for her to come home. (Someone called the police and the article had a report linked.) Apparently, he left there around 6:30 pm.


According to the CDC, black women have a maternal homicide risk about seven times that of white women. Black women ages 25-29 are about 11 times more likely as white women in that age group to be murdered while pregnant or in the year after childbirth. http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-4009249.html
Jeez, that's a grisly statistic.
I think Springcurl was just venting...
Originally Posted by The New Black
Yes, I was.
Originally Posted by Springcurl
Ah, ok. I just so frequently run into serious misperceptions about abusive relationships...
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911 calls released

so i didn't know there was another woman in the pic. he was cheating? oh jeez!!

i heard him being upset about her coming in late. i heard he wasn't a big spender and perhaps she wanted to spend more freely but he was driving a bentley (but supposedly their house was only $150K not bigger like some of the other players) and i heard that sense they were so on again off again she threated to take their daughter and leave, hire an attorney and all that.

one article, maybe one i posted here said right before the shooting he said "you can't talk to me like that"....

i heard that his mother loved her like a daughter and actually referred to her as such when she called 911. i think it's mind boggling that it was released that HIS mother would raise their daughter in long island where he grew up. i can't imagine her parents not wanting their slain daughter baby to raise. she was 22 so her parents could easily be in their 40's, still young enough to raise a child. they said she moved there like 2 years ago to be with him. maybe there was tension with her family since she was living in another state with a guy unmarried. even her close in age cousin that is married to belcher's teammate could make the case for taking the little girl to raise. it's just weird that the paternal grandmother, whose son murdered the mom is taking the baby.

he definitely took the cowards way out. couldn't face going to jail and losing his daughter so he killed himself. i don't think for one second he woke up that day thinking he'd commit suicide. to shoot a person 9 times is pure rage. i mean honestly, push, shove, hit but to go to that extreme in an argument is pure evil. i wonder if there had been previous violence. nobody has said there was, maybe they're too ashamed they knew their was violence and didn't help her get out. i know her cousin who introduced her to belcher is probably reeling from this.
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please recycle, it matters...
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I just wish these men would have enough sanity left to shoot themselves FIRST.
Originally Posted by Springcurl
Murder-suicides like that are all about the murder, not the suicide. For some abusers, nothing is more important than controlling their victims, and the ultimate act of control is deciding whether someone lives or dies. So they commit the murder, and then kill themselves simply to avoid punishment. They're not suicidal, they're just that obsessed with being abusive.

I seriously doubt the baby or the fact they had a baby had anything to do w/ this.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
In abusive relationships, pregnancy and childbirth tend to trigger even worse abuse. The abuser feels threatened by the fetus/baby, viewing it as a rival for the mother's love and attention.
Originally Posted by Eilonwy
But so does stress at the job, so does the loss of a job, so do the holidays, so does frivolous shopping, so do random emails from exboyfriends, so does trying to end the relationship, so does a burnt meal...
3b (with 3c tendencies) on modified CG

I just wish these men would have enough sanity left to shoot themselves FIRST.
Originally Posted by Springcurl
Murder-suicides like that are all about the murder, not the suicide. For some abusers, nothing is more important than controlling their victims, and the ultimate act of control is deciding whether someone lives or dies. So they commit the murder, and then kill themselves simply to avoid punishment. They're not suicidal, they're just that obsessed with being abusive.

I seriously doubt the baby or the fact they had a baby had anything to do w/ this.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
In abusive relationships, pregnancy and childbirth tend to trigger even worse abuse. The abuser feels threatened by the fetus/baby, viewing it as a rival for the mother's love and attention.
Originally Posted by Eilonwy
+1
Yes Spider, those things too, but because the victim is now going to pay attention (necessarily) to a new being, the abuse could be far worse than anything triggered by holiday time or trying to leave. And if the abuse is already bad and keeping the woman paralyzed, it is far worse because now there is an additional threat of harm to the baby (which sadly motivates the abuser to be more abusive because the mother cares so much for this other being).

And the fact that she removed the baby from their home prior, that was indication to him that he was being "replaced"--she cared more for the baby--it's f*ckin effed up. So if he can't have her neither can the baby--he kills her, and then not to face the consequences, he kills himself. Abusive people are the devil.

What a horribly sad story.
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Last edited by coilynapp; 12-05-2012 at 12:21 PM.
In abusive relationships, pregnancy and childbirth tend to trigger even worse abuse. The abuser feels threatened by the fetus/baby, viewing it as a rival for the mother's love and attention.
Originally Posted by Eilonwy
But so does stress at the job, so does the loss of a job, so do the holidays, so does frivolous shopping, so do random emails from exboyfriends, so does trying to end the relationship, so does a burnt meal...
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
It's really not like those things at all, except for trying to end the relationship. Those other things can "cause" episodes (obviously they're not really causing the abuse). But pregnancy, childbirth, and leaving? Abusers often interpret events like those as undermining their control over the victim. So to reestablish control, they'll shift to an entirely new level of abuse and become even more vicious. A burnt dinner doesn't have much of a potential to make murder-suicide look appealing, but having an infant does.

e:
And all that's aside from the fact that, as coilynapp pointed out, having a child presents a new avenue for abuse and control.

Last edited by Eilonwy; 12-05-2012 at 01:53 PM.
In abusive relationships, pregnancy and childbirth tend to trigger even worse abuse. The abuser feels threatened by the fetus/baby, viewing it as a rival for the mother's love and attention.
Originally Posted by Eilonwy
But so does stress at the job, so does the loss of a job, so do the holidays, so does frivolous shopping, so do random emails from exboyfriends, so does trying to end the relationship, so does a burnt meal...
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
It's really not like those things at all, except for trying to end the relationship. Those other things can "cause" episodes (obviously they're not really causing the abuse). But pregnancy, childbirth, and leaving? Abusers often interpret events like those as undermining their control over the victim. So to reestablish control, they'll shift to an entirely new level of abuse and become even more vicious. A burnt dinner doesn't have much of a potential to make murder-suicide look appealing, but having an infant does.

e:
And all that's aside from the fact that, as coilynapp pointed out, having a child presents a new avenue for abuse and control.
Originally Posted by Eilonwy
Ok, blame it on the baby, if that works for you. (I just hope other people don't...and recognize that an abusive man is an abusive man is an abusive man.)
3b (with 3c tendencies) on modified CG


Last edited by spiderlashes5000; 12-07-2012 at 08:46 AM.

But so does stress at the job, so does the loss of a job, so do the holidays, so does frivolous shopping, so do random emails from exboyfriends, so does trying to end the relationship, so does a burnt meal...
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
It's really not like those things at all, except for trying to end the relationship. Those other things can "cause" episodes (obviously they're not really causing the abuse). But pregnancy, childbirth, and leaving? Abusers often interpret events like those as undermining their control over the victim. So to reestablish control, they'll shift to an entirely new level of abuse and become even more vicious. A burnt dinner doesn't have much of a potential to make murder-suicide look appealing, but having an infant does.

e:
And all that's aside from the fact that, as coilynapp pointed out, having a child presents a new avenue for abuse and control.
Originally Posted by Eilonwy
Ok, blame it on the baby, if that works for you. (I just hope other people don't...and recognize that an abusive man is an abusive man is an abusive man.)
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
No one is blaming the baby, but it's a fact that women are often at greater risk of domestic violence during pregnancy.

It's estimated that about 30% of such abuse starts or becomes worse during pregnancy:

Domestic Abuse: Frequently Asked Questions

Also:

Research confirms that during the time of pregnancy and shortly after giving birth, women are highly vulnerable to domestic violence. In fact, according to the Family Violence Prevention Fund, women are more likely to be victims of homicide at the hands of their partners during this time than to die of any other cause. Throughout the world, pregnancy is a period of high risk for both battering and homicide
Reducing the Risk of Domestic Homicide
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"...just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." ~Harry Dresden

It's really not like those things at all, except for trying to end the relationship. Those other things can "cause" episodes (obviously they're not really causing the abuse). But pregnancy, childbirth, and leaving? Abusers often interpret events like those as undermining their control over the victim. So to reestablish control, they'll shift to an entirely new level of abuse and become even more vicious. A burnt dinner doesn't have much of a potential to make murder-suicide look appealing, but having an infant does.

e:
And all that's aside from the fact that, as coilynapp pointed out, having a child presents a new avenue for abuse and control.
Originally Posted by Eilonwy
Ok, blame it on the baby, if that works for you. (I just hope other people don't...and recognize that an abusive man is an abusive man is an abusive man.)
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
No one is blaming the baby, but it's a fact that women are often at greater risk of domestic violence during pregnancy.

It's estimated that about 30% of such abuse starts or becomes worse during pregnancy:
Originally Posted by Nallia
And the other 70% doesn't.

No one knows what the "trigger" for this particular episode was. The Trey Songz concert, the new baby, the argument over the other woman...they are all possibilities. And there may be others. It doesn't matter IMO. It takes a special kind of sick ahole to kill his SO...and then kill himself.
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3b (with 3c tendencies) on modified CG

No one is disagreeing with you Spider. No one is blaming the baby. It could be any number of things that triggered this last episode of abuse. He should have killed himself first. No blame to the baby or the mum here. The blame is all on the guy. We are just pointing out that abuse tends to be worse during or right after pregnancy--not that this happened because she was a new mum. It happened because he's a selfish abusive a$$hole

An abusive man is an abusive man is an abusive man. Always. It is his fault that she is dead.
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Last edited by coilynapp; 12-07-2012 at 12:51 PM.

Ok, blame it on the baby, if that works for you. (I just hope other people don't...and recognize that an abusive man is an abusive man is an abusive man.)
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
No one is blaming the baby, but it's a fact that women are often at greater risk of domestic violence during pregnancy.

It's estimated that about 30% of such abuse starts or becomes worse during pregnancy:
Originally Posted by Nallia
And the other 70% doesn't.

No one knows what the "trigger" for this particular episode was. The Trey Songz concert, the new baby, the argument over the other woman...they are all possibilities. And there may be others. It doesn't matter IMO. It takes a special kind of sick ahole to kill his SO...and then kill himself.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
I never said that I knew his motivations or triggers. I am only asserting that becoming pregnant while in an abusive situation has a tendency to make the abuse worse and often can lead to the woman being killed. 30% may seem to be an insignificant number to you, but that's 3 in 10. That is not a rare thing only affecting a handful of women. It is a sad fact that murder is one of the top causes of death of pregnant women.

I agree with the bolded 100%, but I disagree that what led to him making such an abhorrent decision doesn't matter. Too many women are killed in similar circumstances. The motivations for such acts absolutely do matter.
"...just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." ~Harry Dresden

I think there may be some confusion btwn association and causation. Yes, there are some women who experience abuse (or worse abuse) during pregnancy. But the pregnancy is not causing the abuse. The guy's abusive nature is causing the abuse.

I'm responding to the earlier comment: something like having a baby will throw even the best couples into a mealstrom or something. And I'm saying, no, having a baby doesn't throw you into anything. If there's a maelstrom, it was already there.

Any stressful situation can trigger it...just so happens a pregnany is sometimes the first stressful situation a couple faces together.
3b (with 3c tendencies) on modified CG


Last edited by spiderlashes5000; 12-07-2012 at 04:36 PM.
I don't think anyone said that the pregnancy caused the abuse. The dude killed her. He has done much more abuse before this incident. Killing is the final "defense" for a controlling abusive person.
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