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Old 12-12-2012, 10:13 PM   #21
 
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I seen is in no way, shape or form acceptable. It's grammatically incorrect, and is a major pet peeve of mine.

Saying "I seen" sounds like you are missing the helping verb (have), which you are. "I have seen" is the present perfect expression, while "I had seen" is the past perfect.

I think this may help:

Use SAW ONLY when you are speaking or writing in the PAST TENSE and when HAS, HAVE, or HAD is NOT a part of the verb.

I'm guessing E will explain it better.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:32 PM   #22
 
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Everyone knows that the correct plural of "you" is "youse guys". At least around certain parts of the greater NY metro area
Geeky beat me to it. We-all from NJ/NY know that we alone speak the king's English (or is it Christie's...aak!) Why would you question it? You know what you know!
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:33 AM   #23
 
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I've never felt the need for a plural version of the word you. You is just fine as it is, I've never even thought about it.

I say "I seen" all the time but I say it on purpose, knowing it's wrong! Sorry kayb!
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:02 AM   #24
 
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The funny thing is I have never heard anyone here say it.

but it a running joke on grammarly's facebook page.
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:20 AM   #25
 
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I don't think "you all" is necessarily bad grammar. But I don't think "these ones" is either. I think it's just more specific.

Y'all is not wrong in the right context.

I would not use y'all in formal writing.


I hear "I seen" a lot now. A coworker of mine is from Ohio. I don't like it, but whatever.
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:10 AM   #26
 
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Everybody knows that it's "all ya'll" when speaking to a group! Dagnabit!
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:17 AM   #27
 
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It's also used in the Philippines, ya'll.

I can not do the now common spelling. Tis unnatural.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:32 AM   #28
 
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I don't think you're being stupid, no. I agree that it's an informal term... I don't know of anyone who would disagree, but maybe that has something to do with where I live. I use y'all and "you guys" (or yinz when I want to be obnoxious) when I want to pluralize "you," but I never use it in a formal context, as a rule.

But I do kind of wish that English had some form of plural "you," like other languages. I feel like we're missing out.
"You" actually is the plural one from back in the day, as well as the formal way to address one person. "Thou" was singular and informal. Our language started out with that feature included, but then it got phased out.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:57 AM   #29
 
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I think y'all is so informal that it's almost irrelevant whether it's grammatically correct or not. Spoken English, especially slang, doesn't follow the same rules. And wouldn't y'all only be used in situations that are so informal that nobody cares about correct grammar, anyway, and not for formal writing or professional speaking?

"I seen," on the other hand, makes me want to chew glass. That seems outright incorrect, rather than just a colloquialism. But it might be possible to argue otherwise, I suppose. After all, what is "correctness," anyway? We use language with particular audiences, for particular purposes. Form is important mostly because how we use language affects how our message is heard and, yes, how we are viewed and judged. In most professional situations, correct grammar is very important, and it's essential in publishing. "I seen" would never fly there, but y'all might, if it were used informally or in a tongue-in-cheek way.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:08 AM   #30
 
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Hey Y'all English Know-it-alls-imageuploadedbycurltalk1355404065.061629.jpg

That is cute.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:58 AM   #31
 
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But I do kind of wish that English had some form of plural "you," like other languages. I feel like we're missing out.
You're not. English grammar is wonderfully easy, and yet it is still a very rich and precise language. I can express ideas much more easily in it than in my native tongue.

Other languages have confusing pronouns too. In German, "sie" stands for either a formal "you", "they" or "she". In French, "on" can mean a generic person, like "one" (as in "One shouldn't talk to strangers"), or it can replace nous (we). You also have to guess if you're hearing someone say elle/elles or il/ils (sing. and plural feminine and masculine pronouns, respectively) because the s is silent unless followed by a word that starts in a vowel...usually.

Not to mention how complex verb conjugation can be and how you have to learn to distinguish between formal and informal pronouns...for instance, the rules for using tú/vosotros/vos/usted/ustedes change depending in which Spanish-speaking country you find yourself. You were wise to get rid of all that nonsense, you were!
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:30 AM   #32
 
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Originally Posted by RedCatWaves View Post
Is "you all" acceptable in formal writing?
If the document is well written, the "all" is superfluous. The reader should be able to glean from context whether or not the "you" is plural.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:06 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Fifi.G View Post
It's also used in the Philippines, ya'll.

I can not do the now common spelling. Tis unnatural.

only in the southern Philippines
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:19 PM   #34
 
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Originally Posted by roseannadana View Post
Everybody knows that it's "all ya'll" when speaking to a group! Dagnabit!

LOLOLOL
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:24 PM   #35
 
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Originally Posted by RedCatWaves View Post
Is "you all" acceptable in formal writing?

If it showed up in a report I was proofing, I would cross out the all. If for some reason (I can't think of any at the moment), the emphasis was really necessary, I would rather see "all of you" written.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:00 PM   #36
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OBB View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fifi.G View Post
It's also used in the Philippines, ya'll.

I can not do the now common spelling. Tis unnatural.

only in the southern Philippines
Haha-Ha!

There's gold in them there words.
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:16 PM   #37
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeky View Post
Everyone knows that the correct plural of "you" is "youse guys". At least around certain parts of the greater NY metro area
And youse guys should know it's common in Michigan too.
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:32 PM   #38
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAwoman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeky View Post
Everyone knows that the correct plural of "you" is "youse guys". At least around certain parts of the greater NY metro area
I beg to differ. It is yinz.

Yinz guys is also acceptable.
Yes. It's yinz and yinz guys.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:36 PM   #39
 
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Originally Posted by RedCatWaves View Post
Eilonwy!!! Just the person I hoped would post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves View Post
Tell me what you think of someone who uses the phrase "I seen" instead of "I saw". Is it ever acceptable?
Yeah, it's the same as with "y'all": whether it's proper depends on which English you want to use. It's not part of Standard English, and therefore isn't part of formal writing. But it is correct grammar in a ton of Englishes.
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:02 PM   #40
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayb View Post
Saying "I seen" sounds like you are missing the helping verb (have), which you are. "I have seen" is the present perfect expression, while "I had seen" is the past perfect.

I'm guessing E will explain it better.
I could explain it in a more jargony way, but that would be a worse explanation in this context.

I would point out, though, that whether "I seen" is missing the helper verb really just depends on which English you're talking about. It's like talking about whether swimsuits are appropriate. They're neither appropriate nor inappropriate per se. It depends on the situation.
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