Should drug testing be mandatory for welfare recipients?

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(Any kind of need-based public assistance/entitlement)

Discuss.
3b (with 3c tendencies) on modified CG

i dont have time for a long answer right now. but a quick responds is no. who will cover the cost of the drug test and if they do not offer help to get off the drug what is the point?
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Under the premise that they'll save money by not giving money to drug addicts? No, since that turns out not to be true.

WELFARE DRUG TEST COSTS MORE MONEY THAN IT SAVES

But you can't tell people who believe otherwise anyway. They'll always believe what they want regardless facts.
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(Any kind of need-based public assistance/entitlement)

Discuss.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
Not sure. On one hand, you have to pass a drug test to get most jobs, so I see the argument. I need to be drug free to get my check to live off of, so it's not unreasonable to expect that from others as well.

On the other hand, it can get dicey and discriminatory.
Sure, let's do it for everyone receiving government assistance. So, that includes those getting:

Medicaid
Medicare
CHIP
Social Security
Federal Financial Aid
Any kind of federal grant (including grants for small business)
US Politicians (if they aren't already tested)
Those receiving earned income tax credits
Supplemental security income for the elderly and poor
Those receiving child care, energy and other assistance
Drug test all vets for as long as they receive federal assistance (life?)
Public school children, teachers and administrators
Etc.

Get my point? This is dumb.





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Last edited by Kilajo; 01-31-2013 at 10:22 AM.
If it's not economically sound, then it's being proposed for moral reasons, which is a slippery slope, imo.
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Sure, let's do it for everyone receiving government assistance. So, that includes those getting:

Medicaid
Medicare
CHIP
Social Security
Federal Financial Aid
Any kind of federal grant (including grants for small business)
US Politicians (if they aren't already tested)
Those receiving earned income tax credits
Supplemental security income for the elderly and poor
Those receiving child care, energy and other assistance
Drug test all vets for as long as they receive federal assistance (life?)
Public school children, teachers and administrators
Etc.

Get my point? This is dumb.





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Originally Posted by Kilajo
I don't really get the "point" bc almost everyone in the groups above are either who I am referring to in my question or were already required to get drug tests while they were earning their benefits.

You're not really making a point w/ regard to my question...just fleshing out some groups to possibly be included or that had been incuded.
3b (with 3c tendencies) on modified CG


Last edited by spiderlashes5000; 01-31-2013 at 10:46 AM.
Sure, let's do it for everyone receiving government assistance. So, that includes those getting:

Medicaid
Medicare
CHIP
Social Security
Federal Financial Aid
Any kind of federal grant (including grants for small business)
US Politicians (if they aren't already tested)
Those receiving earned income tax credits
Supplemental security income for the elderly and poor
Those receiving child care, energy and other assistance
Drug test all vets for as long as they receive federal assistance (life?)
Public school children, teachers and administrators
Etc.

Get my point? This is dumb.





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Originally Posted by Kilajo
I don't really get the "point" bc almost everyone in the groups above are either who I am referring to in my question or were already required to get drug tests while they were earning their benefits.

You're not really making a point w/ regard to my question...just fleshing out some groups to possibly to be included or that had been incuded.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
I don't think it was directed at you, I think the "point" was that many people often think of government assistance as limited to TANF/EBT/WIC/Section 8, and don't realize that so many other people (maybe even them!) are also considered to be a recipient of government assistance.

Sure, let's do it for everyone receiving government assistance. So, that includes those getting:

Medicaid
Medicare
CHIP
Social Security
Federal Financial Aid
Any kind of federal grant (including grants for small business)
US Politicians (if they aren't already tested)
Those receiving earned income tax credits
Supplemental security income for the elderly and poor
Those receiving child care, energy and other assistance
Drug test all vets for as long as they receive federal assistance (life?)
Public school children, teachers and administrators
Etc.

Get my point? This is dumb.





Sent from my PC36100 using CurlTalk App
Originally Posted by Kilajo
I don't really get the "point" bc almost everyone in the groups above are either who I am referring to in my question or were already required to get drug tests while they were earning their benefits.

You're not really making a point w/ regard to my question...just fleshing out some groups to possibly to be included or that had been incuded.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
That wasn't directed at you at all. I thought you were simply opening this up for discussion. I was discussing.

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If it's not economically sound, then it's being proposed for moral reasons, which is a slippery slope, imo.
Originally Posted by claudine19
ITA, and that's why I don't like it.

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Sure, let's do it for everyone receiving government assistance. So, that includes those getting:

Medicaid
Medicare
CHIP
Social Security
Federal Financial Aid
Any kind of federal grant (including grants for small business)
US Politicians (if they aren't already tested)
Those receiving earned income tax credits
Supplemental security income for the elderly and poor
Those receiving child care, energy and other assistance
Drug test all vets for as long as they receive federal assistance (life?)
Public school children, teachers and administrators
Etc.

Get my point? This is dumb.





Sent from my PC36100 using CurlTalk App
Originally Posted by Kilajo
I don't really get the "point" bc almost everyone in the groups above are either who I am referring to in my question or were already required to get drug tests while they were earning their benefits.

You're not really making a point w/ regard to my question...just fleshing out some groups to possibly to be included or that had been incuded.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
I don't think it was directed at you, I think the "point" was that many people often think of government assistance as limited to TANF/EBT/WIC/Section 8, and don't realize that so many other people (maybe even them!) are also considered to be a recipient of government assistance.
Originally Posted by Munchy
This!

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Interesting.

FOR drug testing:
  • People who could otherwise work but are just blowing their money on drugs shouldn't get money from the government
  • Most people get their money from jobs, and jobs often require drug-testing, so the people who can't get jobs should also be required to get drug-testing in order to get money
AGAINST drug testing:
  • Who cares about the validity of the reasons, it costs too much money to drug test welfare recipients
  • People get government aid from all kinds of programs for all kinds of reasons, so why should welfare require drug testing, and not any of those other programs.
  • Testing people and withholding welfare money if they're on drugs, without offering assistance to get off drugs, will just create a major problem with homelessness, etc., that will hurt society.




Personally, I completely understand the "I work for my money and pay taxes, I don't want those taxes to go to drug addicts who could be working instead" feeling, but in practice it's just not that simple. I think it's just one more area where the "obvious" answer isn't practical or really that obvious at all once you have all the facts. Other examples along the same lines: "You don't want kids to get pregnant, just tell them not to have sex and withhold all access to birth control", and "Let's outlaw abortion, just give the baby up for adoption, there are plenty of people out their who will want it!". Totally not as simple as it seems, and doesn't work, either.
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"I don't know! I don't know why I did it, I don't know why I enjoyed it, and I don't know why I'll do it again!" -BART SIMPSON
Sure, let's do it for everyone receiving government assistance. So, that includes those getting:

Medicaid
Medicare
CHIP
Social Security
Federal Financial Aid
Any kind of federal grant (including grants for small business)
US Politicians (if they aren't already tested)
Those receiving earned income tax credits
Supplemental security income for the elderly and poor
Those receiving child care, energy and other assistance
Drug test all vets for as long as they receive federal assistance (life?)
Public school children, teachers and administrators
Etc.

Get my point? This is dumb.





Sent from my PC36100 using CurlTalk App
Originally Posted by Kilajo
I don't really get the "point" bc almost everyone in the groups above are either who I am referring to in my question or were already required to get drug tests while they were earning their benefits.

You're not really making a point w/ regard to my question...just fleshing out some groups to possibly to be included or that had been incuded.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
I don't think it was directed at you, I think the "point" was that many people often think of government assistance as limited to TANF/EBT/WIC/Section 8, and don't realize that so many other people (maybe even them!) are also considered to be a recipient of government assistance.
Originally Posted by Munchy
Well, I definitely do distniguish btwn TANF etc and the retirement benefits earned during the course of someone's miltary service or public school teaching career, etc.

But yes, soldiers and teachers and many gov't employees have to submit to drug tests, so it's not like anyone is asking a TANF recipient to do something totally unreasonable.
3b (with 3c tendencies) on modified CG

Interesting.

FOR drug testing:
  • People who could otherwise work but are just blowing their money on drugs shouldn't get money from the government
  • Most people get their money from jobs, and jobs often require drug-testing, so the people who can't get jobs should also be required to get drug-testing in order to get money
AGAINST drug testing:
  • Who cares about the validity of the reasons, it costs too much money to drug test welfare recipients
  • People get government aid from all kinds of programs for all kinds of reasons, so why should welfare require drug testing, and not any of those other programs.
  • Testing people and withholding welfare money if they're on drugs, without offering assistance to get off drugs, will just create a major problem with homelessness, etc., that will hurt society.



Personally, I completely understand the "I work for my money and pay taxes, I don't want those taxes to go to drug addicts who could be working instead" feeling, but in practice it's just not that simple. I think it's just one more area where the "obvious" answer isn't practical or really that obvious at all once you have all the facts. Other examples along the same lines: "You don't want kids to get pregnant, just tell them not to have sex and withhold all access to birth control", and "Let's outlaw abortion, just give the baby up for adoption, there are plenty of people out their who will want it!". Totally not as simple as it seems, and doesn't work, either.
Originally Posted by Who Me?
Medicaid pays for substance abuse treatment and related expenses. So the idea that there is no means of treatment is just wrong.
3b (with 3c tendencies) on modified CG

No, because it becomes a government-forced search of a person who has given no reason for suspicion. There are already so many violations of our rights thanks to things like the Patriot Act, that it is yet further erosion of rights.

An employer wishing to drug test (including government jobs) is different to me than this.


That said, I still feel strongly that if someone needs assistance because they are on non-necessary drugs they should be SOL, but I don't know how to resolve those two issues.
The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
-Speckla

But at least the pews never attend yoga!
If it's not economically sound, then it's being proposed for moral reasons, which is a slippery slope, imo.
Originally Posted by claudine19
Definitely slippery.

But is it any different than preventing food stamps (SNAP) and WIC Checks from being used to buy alcohol or tobacco?

I don't think the concept public assistance is necessarily one of economic soundness. More like functional necessity?
3b (with 3c tendencies) on modified CG


I don't really get the "point" bc almost everyone in the groups above are either who I am referring to in my question or were already required to get drug tests while they were earning their benefits.

You're not really making a point w/ regard to my question...just fleshing out some groups to possibly to be included or that had been incuded.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
I don't think it was directed at you, I think the "point" was that many people often think of government assistance as limited to TANF/EBT/WIC/Section 8, and don't realize that so many other people (maybe even them!) are also considered to be a recipient of government assistance.
Originally Posted by Munchy
Well, I definitely do distniguish btwn TANF etc and the retirement benefits earned during the course of someone's miltary service or public school teaching career, etc.

But yes, soldiers and teachers and many gov't employees have to submit to drug tests, so it's not like anyone is asking a TANF recipient to do something totally unreasonable.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
Yea well I didn't realize discharged vets have to undergo drug testing for the length of their lifetime benefits. That's news to me, but then I'm not a vet.

And since you didn't state in your OP an argument pro or con absolutely noone could have made an argument for or against what you believe.

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They tried that crap here in Florida. Epic fail. Waste of time and resources.
Kilajo likes this.


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My military pension will come from the taxpayers the same way someone's food stamps do. Even more so, since my pension will cost more. No one will suggest drug testing me every month before I get my check. It all boils down to disparaging the poor as opposed to checking on everyone receiving government benefits.
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