Oscar Pistorius

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Or maybe he just stabbed someone dang I don't Remeber
Wow. He got bail. And how did they not know a prosecuted was up on charges?? I am wondering if the fix is in. The $ been paid. Etc etc.
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honestly if i were him i'd be worried about my safety. people seem very upset that reeva was killed. in a corrupt city there could be people trying to get him. of course then we'd never know what happened that night.
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I knew he would make bail. I'm really hoping that the real truth is revealed. What a sad story for Reeva's family.


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Life is really going to suck in prison with no legs. I doubt he'll be able to keep his prosthetics. I could (almost) feel sorry for him...except that he killed a woman.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

Why do you say that? Bc they could be used as weapons?

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't leave him w/o legs. Inmates get all of their medical needs attended to - glasses, dentures, counseling. I think if anything he'd be in a special unit for ppl w/ serious disabilities.
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Life is really going to suck in prison with no legs. I doubt he'll be able to keep his prosthetics. I could (almost) feel sorry for him...except that he killed a woman.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

Why do you say that? Bc they could be used as weapons?

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't leave him w/o legs. Inmates get all of their medical needs attended to - glasses, dentures, counseling. I think if anything he'd be in a special unit for ppl w/ serious disabilities.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
I'd think so too. Not sure how the prison system works in South Africa, but in most first-world countries, prisoners seem to be treated more humanely than in the US.
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Life is really going to suck in prison with no legs. I doubt he'll be able to keep his prosthetics. I could (almost) feel sorry for him...except that he killed a woman.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

Why do you say that? Bc they could be used as weapons?

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't leave him w/o legs. Inmates get all of their medical needs attended to - glasses, dentures, counseling. I think if anything he'd be in a special unit for ppl w/ serious disabilities.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000


Meeting medical needs in prison doesn't necessarily mean meeting them the same way as someone would as a free person. They might say that a wheelchair would meet his needs perfectly fine.
I think what's missing from this whole discussion is the issue of race. People were ready to accept that Pistorius fired at an intruder because "South Africa has so much crime..." ie. whites live in a gated community, and poor Blacks roaming around must be criminals. Now apparently the intruder theory seems to be holding less water.

People were so quick to accept Pistorius as a hero. Which is fine. But how many poor Black South African kids do you think would have been able to afford those top of the line prosthetics? How many Black South African kids, with or without physical disabilities, can "just be anything they dream of if they really want it and try hard enough?"

How much did Pistorius' parents and grandparents benefit from the apartheid regime? How much violence did they learn to accept and perpetrate watching the South African state use all the violent means it could to contain the Black majority? Why are we not surprised that a nation would use official violence against Black and other people of colour, but surprised that one of its sons would use violence personally against a woman?

And I know we don't really know yet what happened and he is legally innocent. But the way this is being generally discussed just seems strange to me, given the above.
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I was reading news from SA. I didn't know it was such a dangerous place to live, especially for women.

Crime & Courts | IOL News | IOL.co.za

Oscar
ETA: With the link above, I m not implying he is guilty of murder. I think we do not have enough information yet.
Originally Posted by maria_i
I dunno. Any developing country with a large gap between rich and poor, or any country with a significant racial divide in wealth is going to have a perception of being "dangerous" - especially if you're the wealthy minority. Then some countries are plagued by the drug trade and/or weapons trafficking, often because poor people see that as an opportunity to gain wealth.

People are terrified of Mexico. People are terrified of islands in the Caribbean. I think certainly some countries, or areas of countries, have higher rates of violent crime than others, but I also think that these fears are exaggerated and exploited and used to feed racial narratives.

I have the feeling that if 99% of South Africa were made up of Black people, like many other countries in Africa, we'd never hear about how "dangerous" it is. It is the white people there who feed this narrative and barricade themselves in their gated communities, just like they do in the Caribbean.
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











Life is really going to suck in prison with no legs. I doubt he'll be able to keep his prosthetics. I could (almost) feel sorry for him...except that he killed a woman.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

Why do you say that? Bc they could be used as weapons?

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't leave him w/o legs. Inmates get all of their medical needs attended to - glasses, dentures, counseling. I think if anything he'd be in a special unit for ppl w/ serious disabilities.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000


Meeting medical needs in prison doesn't necessarily mean meeting them the same way as someone would as a free person. They might say that a wheelchair would meet his needs perfectly fine.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
I don't know what they do there, but here, an inmate would normally get what they would be entitled to through the regular state-provided health care system. So if he has had prosthetics and is used to them, he would likely get prosthetics, but he would not necessarily get the top-of-the-line, specially-engineered prosthetics that he has now. They wouldn't remove prosthetics for a wheelchair which is a lower level of mobility unless there was some reason (infection, etc.) that he could not use his prosthetics any more. If a defense lawyer found out from a client that prosthetics were removed to "punish" an inmate or to show disapproval of their acts or because corrections officials were being jerks, there would be various procedures the lawyer could follow to get prosthetics back for that person. I have no idea what the system is like in SA or what healthcare people are generally entitled to, though.
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











I think what's missing from this whole discussion is the issue of race. People were ready to accept that Pistorius fired at an intruder because "South Africa has so much crime..." ie. whites live in a gated community, and poor Blacks roaming around must be criminals. Now apparently the intruder theory seems to be holding less water.
Originally Posted by Amneris
I haven't sought out information to confirm this but I've heard that South Africa does have significant rates of violent home invasions. Significant meaning that most citizens are alerted to it, and many take security precautions in response.

People were so quick to accept Pistorius as a hero. Which is fine. But how many poor Black South African kids do you think would have been able to afford those top of the line prosthetics? How many Black South African kids, with or without physical disabilities, can "just be anything they dream of if they really want it and try hard enough?"
You say it's fine, but then it reads like it's not really fine because there are many black South African kids who could be inspirations if they had the same favorable circumstances. That seems to be the arc of your thought.

You should not celebrate someone in your culture, who's treated fine- well, if there are people in your culture you're not treating fine-well.

How much did Pistorius' parents and grandparents benefit from the apartheid regime? How much violence did they learn to accept and perpetrate watching the South African state use all the violent means it could to contain the Black majority? Why are we not surprised that a nation would use official violence against Black and other people of colour, but surprised that one of its sons would use violence personally against a woman?
"One of its sons" in your immediate context sounds like you're grouping him in with apartheid sympathizers because of his heritage. But we have no idea how odious, or not, being grouped into that would be for Oscar Pistorious, the individual.

Toward your point though, I think people are surprised on the first note, and people are surprised with the Pistorious situation because he's a public figure, an Olympian, and a distinctive one due to his physical circumstances. Murder is not an everyday thing, so to see it possibly happen within a narrow pool of people, world-known for reasons other it, will draw attention, always.
“It was only a sunny smile and little it cost in the giving but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living.” - F. Scott Fitzgerald

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I have the feeling that if 99% of South Africa were made up of Black people, like many other countries in Africa, we'd never hear about how "dangerous" it is. It is the white people there who feed this narrative and barricade themselves in their gated communities, just like they do in the Caribbean.
Originally Posted by Amneris
My guess is people who are wealthy and desirous to really protect whatever they have feed into perceptions of how dangerous places are. Their color doesn't matter, how wealthy they are does.
“It was only a sunny smile and little it cost in the giving but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living.” - F. Scott Fitzgerald

3B ■ Medium/Course ■ High Porosity
I think what's missing from this whole discussion is the issue of race. People were ready to accept that Pistorius fired at an intruder because "South Africa has so much crime..." ie. whites live in a gated community, and poor Blacks roaming around must be criminals. Now apparently the intruder theory seems to be holding less water.
Originally Posted by Amneris
I haven't sought out information to confirm this but I've heard that South Africa does have significant rates of violent home invasions. Significant meaning that most citizens are alerted to it, and many take security precautions in response.

And until just over 20 years ago, South Africa had significant rates of government murders of its own citizens - and many of those murderers are sitting in Parliament and have gotten away with it scot-free. Some South Africans are just trying to even the scales themselves, since it doesn't seem it is going to happen any other way. No justice, no peace.

Also, SA is hardly unique in that way. The US has significant rates of violent gun crime, as has been discussed here many times. Many countries have violence. But in the Pistorius story, some seemed to think that the alleged issue of violent home invasions was a reasonable excuse for his alleged behaviour. I find that disturbing.

People were so quick to accept Pistorius as a hero. Which is fine. But how many poor Black South African kids do you think would have been able to afford those top of the line prosthetics? How many Black South African kids, with or without physical disabilities, can "just be anything they dream of if they really want it and try hard enough?"
You say it's fine, but then it reads like it's not really fine because there are many black South African kids who could be inspirations if they had the same favorable circumstances. That seems to be the arc of your thought.

You should not celebrate someone in your culture, who's treated fine- well, if there are people in your culture you're not treating fine-well.

I'm saying that his whole situation is about privilege. Just being in the position to go to the Olympics in most sports is about privilege. Running is probably the only sport, or one of the few, where there is reasonable access for the poor and under-privileged. But in his case, there could only be access with expensively engineered prosthetics. And this is something the poor and under-privileged, including most of the people of colour from his own country, could never access. And I don't think I've seen much from him to truly indicate that he gets this and wants to help - no, he's not obligated to, but to me, a true hero would, rather than spending his time driving around on his speedboat wrecking it or posting on the internet about shooting intruders or ripping on people who beat him at the Special Olympics with their own prosthetics.

How much did Pistorius' parents and grandparents benefit from the apartheid regime? How much violence did they learn to accept and perpetrate watching the South African state use all the violent means it could to contain the Black majority? Why are we not surprised that a nation would use official violence against Black and other people of colour, but surprised that one of its sons would use violence personally against a woman?
"One of its sons" in your immediate context sounds like you're grouping him in with apartheid sympathizers because of his heritage. But we have no idea how odious, or not, being grouped into that would be for Oscar Pistorious, the individual.

ANY wealthy white South African has by necessity recently benefitted from the apatheid regime and continues to do so.

Toward your point though, I think people are surprised on the first note, and people are surprised with the Pistorious situation because he's a public figure, an Olympian, and a distinctive one due to his physical circumstances. Murder is not an everyday thing, so to see it possibly happen within a narrow pool of people, world-known for reasons other it, will draw attention, always.
Originally Posted by sew and sew
But people accept that murder IS common in South Africa.... but only common when poor Black people are doing it, apparently.
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











I have the feeling that if 99% of South Africa were made up of Black people, like many other countries in Africa, we'd never hear about how "dangerous" it is. It is the white people there who feed this narrative and barricade themselves in their gated communities, just like they do in the Caribbean.
Originally Posted by Amneris
My guess is people who are wealthy and desirous to really protect whatever they have feed into perceptions of how dangerous places are. Their color doesn't matter, how wealthy they are does.
Originally Posted by sew and sew
Except that in SA, and in most of these other places, the people who are most often the victims of violent crime aren't the wealthy, but the poor. Most SA murder victims are Black and are not wealthy. But it is the wealthy whites who are the most fearful of crime.
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This article kind of touches on the issue for me.

Pistorius: South Africa bears and breeds these men | News | National | Mail & Guardian
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











I have the feeling that if 99% of South Africa were made up of Black people, like many other countries in Africa, we'd never hear about how "dangerous" it is. It is the white people there who feed this narrative and barricade themselves in their gated communities, just like they do in the Caribbean.
Originally Posted by Amneris
My guess is people who are wealthy and desirous to really protect whatever they have feed into perceptions of how dangerous places are. Their color doesn't matter, how wealthy they are does.
Originally Posted by sew and sew
Except that in SA, and in most of these other places, the people who are most often the victims of violent crime aren't the wealthy, but the poor. Most SA murder victims are Black and are not wealthy. But it is the wealthy whites who are the most fearful of crime.
Originally Posted by Amneris
How do you know that though? You're saying a group of people who are often the victims of crime are not as fearful of that crime as another less often victimized group?

I'm sure they are.

Without the means to take costly steps because of it, you're not going to see manifestations of it.

If non-white wealthy people tend to visibly sink less money into security, then I think you're making a fair observation, but do you know that? Do you know that as far as South Africa goes?
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My guess is people who are wealthy and desirous to really protect whatever they have feed into perceptions of how dangerous places are. Their color doesn't matter, how wealthy they are does.
Originally Posted by sew and sew
Except that in SA, and in most of these other places, the people who are most often the victims of violent crime aren't the wealthy, but the poor. Most SA murder victims are Black and are not wealthy. But it is the wealthy whites who are the most fearful of crime.
Originally Posted by Amneris
How do you know that though? You're saying a group of people who are often the victims of crime are not as fearful of that crime as another less often victimized group?

I'm sure they are.

Without the means to take costly steps because of it, you're not going to see manifestations of it.

If non-white wealthy people tend to visibly sink less money into security, then I think you're making a fair observation, but do you know that? Do you know that as far as South Africa goes?
Originally Posted by sew and sew

The point is that it is well-documented that white South Africa has a paranoid fear of Black intruders, backed up with a gun culture. Yet they are NOT the majority victims of crime - most victims of crime are Black.
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











Amneris, you seem to be saying that Oscar Pistorious, morally speaking, shouldn't have enjoyed being honored in South Africa and globally to the extent he was, because he is a white individual in a nation with South Africa's history. UNLESS he did enough in your estimation to help those who don't have the same favorable circumstances he has had, decrying through his actions the oppressive history people with his skin color have contributed to.

Is that a fair impression to get from what you're saying?
“It was only a sunny smile and little it cost in the giving but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living.” - F. Scott Fitzgerald

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The point is that it is well-documented that white South Africa has a paranoid fear of Black intruders, backed up with a gun culture. Yet they are NOT the majority victims of crime - most victims of crime are Black.
Originally Posted by Amneris
Personally that doesn't establish fact for me...that someone is telling me that it is well documented. I would have to check out the data and get a sense of the objectivity displayed in the mining of it.

But for the sake of argument, is it wrong in the first place that a group of people who have the means to take precautions for their safety do? Not the method of how they're doing it...that is another discussion, just that they're reactive in the first place? Because violent crime impacts poor black South Africans at a much higher rate than it does wealthy white South Africans, it's wrong, in of itself, for wealthy white South Africans to conclude in their minds they live in a dangerous place?

What if it's arguably reasonable for someone to regard that the place poses a personal safety phasing chance of a violent home invasion, regardless of demographics?
“It was only a sunny smile and little it cost in the giving but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living.” - F. Scott Fitzgerald

3B ■ Medium/Course ■ High Porosity
Hadn't Oscar recently shot his friend in the leg or almost shot his friend in the leg and tried to blame someone else?

At best, I think Oscar needed some gun safety education.
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