Married People Please Tell Me....

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If by the universe you mean me, then yes I am universally accepted as a great beauty. *whips hair*

But in all srsness Amneris, it's the latter. What's hot to me. I'm just kind of tired of people saying "Why don't you give him a chance, annab? He's so nice and employed and cute."

But not to me, bbs. Sure we'd get along but ehhh. I don't want to be ehhh about the man I marry. And the "la la in the kitchen on the floor" was hyperbole to make a point.
Last relaxer: 8.4.10
BC: 9.6.11

when will your favs?

It's the latter. which has been said 5000 times now.
If by the universe you mean me, then yes I am universally accepted as a great beauty. *whips hair*

But in all srsness Amneris, it's the latter. What's hot to me. I'm just kind of tired of people saying "Why don't you give him a chance, annab? He's so nice and employed and cute."

But not to me, bbs. Sure we'd get along but ehhh. I don't want to be ehhh about the man I marry. And the "la la in the kitchen on the floor" was hyperbole to make a point.
Originally Posted by annabananalise
I hear what you're saying.
Absolutely you need to be excited about the person you marry.
But I think in the defense of people who say that, they're not necessarily saying to marry the guy they think is nice and employed and cute and you aren't initially attracted to. They're just saying to go on a date or two and give it a try. It's not unheard-of for sparks to suddenly light where initially someone was not attracted. If they're still ehhhh after a couple of dates, you don't see them anymore - obviously you don't go and marry them. And who knows - they may end up being a great friend, or business contact, or to have a friend or relative who does light your fire.

I am not saying you personally are this way, but there are SOME people who make snap judgments on who they want to date based purely on looks where they are looking for a "perfect specimen" and ignoring character, personality etc. So others may be assuming you are that way even if you aren't, which would be annoying if you aren't, for sure.

Like my sister-in-law - she's been desperate to get married and have kids for years, and she tried Internet dating. There was one guy who at least on paper had completely compatible interests, goals, values etc. with her, and who she met once and agreed was really nice, funny, interesting etc.... but because he was too short (not that he was that short but she is really tall), she refused to date him any more. She ended up with a guy she was more attracted to but who is completely stalling on any commitment, has no goals, no money etc. Now obviously it doesn't have to be an either/or situation and those are two extremes, but what could it have hurt to see the short guy a couple more times and just make absolutely sure there was no possibility of attraction?

I think people often get it backwards - sexual attraction isn't always an instant thing and doesn't always come first. I think that's all people are trying to say, not that it's not important or you shouldn't have it or want it.
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











It's the latter. which has been said 5000 times now.
Originally Posted by murrrcat
Yeah, I got that. I think it was the "ugly" comments that threw me - no need for that if all you mean is that someone isn't attractive to you and there is no universal standard for attractiveness.

I think Joe Biden is attractive, too. He just seems like a good person as well.
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali












I think people often get it backwards - sexual attraction isn't always an instant thing and doesn't always come first. I think that's all people are trying to say, not that it's not important or you shouldn't have it or want it.
Originally Posted by Amneris
Bingo!

It's certainly been this way for me, both in my serious relationships and my casual flings. I meet a person, I don't think much of them one way or the other physically but then I get to know them a bit and I become totally hot for them.
M2LR and Amneris like this.
To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
I pray none of you ever has to live in a communist state.

Geeky is my hero. She's the true badass. The badass who doesn't even need to be a badass. There aren't enough O's in cool to describe her.
On another topic, I think another important resource to keep a marriage strong, which I use a lot, is to have other couples, both your peers and older, long-term couples, as mentors / role models in the area of marriage, with kids if you have kids, who can give you friendly tips on keeping your marriage strong, resolving conflict, etc. You don't want ALL the people around you to be in unhappy relationships and/or single and perpetually having drama, because misery loves company (some is OK and adds some variety and spice to your life, but you need that positive peer group of happy, loving couples as well.) And I think especially after having kids, you need to know how other couples handled the stresses of children but still kept their marriage strong. That's been invaluable for us.
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali












I think people often get it backwards - sexual attraction isn't always an instant thing and doesn't always come first. I think that's all people are trying to say, not that it's not important or you shouldn't have it or want it.
Originally Posted by Amneris
Bingo!

It's certainly been this way for me, both in my serious relationships and my casual flings. I meet a person, I don't think much of them one way or the other physically but then I get to know them a bit and I become totally hot for them.
Originally Posted by geeky
Absolutely.

When I was dating and much younger, the sexual attraction is all that mattered. Then after a while, it was like I was selling myself short because these guys were total JERKS. Once the lust wore off, it shone through and I felt dumb for not seeing it.

Once I started paying attention to the personalities and how they made me think and feel (non-sexually) things really starte dto change and I wasn't finding myself among complete jerks.

When I met my husband, there was attraction, but it wasn't the hit-by-a-lightening-bolt type of attraction. Then once I got to know him and we started talking, dating, whatever, I saw that he made me want to be a better person, he had respect for me, and he was just a wonderful man. Some other people saw him and told me I "settled" and that I could get "so much better" or whatever. Well, not to me.
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I think there are cultural factors that play into this, too.

Not trying to generalize! I'm the last person to want to generalize about African Americans. Or really anyone. But I think when you talk about African Americans dating and getting married, thereare other factors at play that European Americans don't experience.

That's not to excuse any bad behavior or bad decisions. But I think the process is more complcated for African Americans.

Not talking specifically about a man shortage or the theory that Black women are unilaterally despised by all men and all that.

But...more in terms of What AAs are conditioned to think of as an ideal man/woman and an ideal partner. And the extra pressure to prove we're worthy marital candidates bc of unreralistic expectations and lack of good role models and extra pressures on Black families once a couple has married.
3b (with 3c tendencies) on modified CG

I think there are cultural factors that play into this, too.

Not trying to generalize! I'm the last person to want to generalize about African Americans. Or really anyone. But I think when you talk about African Americans dating and getting married, thereare other factors at play that European Americans don't experience.

That's not to excuse any bad behavior or bad decisions. But I think the process is more complcated for African Americans.

Not talking specifically about a man shortage or the theory that Black women are unilaterally despised by all men and all that.

But...more in terms of What AAs are conditioned to think of as an ideal man/woman and an ideal partner. And the extra pressure to prove we're worthy marital candidates bc of unreralistic expectations and lack of good role models and extra pressures on Black families once a couple has married.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
Interesting. I would say that for many of the Black people I know, marriage is seen as this HUGE GOAL and put on a pedestal in and of itself because it is more rare in our community and therefore comes with higher social status and class significance. So people will make more compromises and accept more garbage to get married. So there seems to be more "settling" by women. We tend not to feel as free as white women to just go ahead and have kids out of wedlock because we will be judged while they will be considered liberated, so if we want kids, many of us will marry just anyone to get them, or if we have an accidental pregnancy, we'll marry him regardless of whether it is a good decision.

I'm not sure about the part about being conditioned to think of an ideal man or the pressure to show you are a worthy marital partner. If anything, I think, and maybe the African-Caribbean community is different, that we have trouble accepting a equal partnership with someone because we grow up in matriarchal homes and being independent and not "needing" anyone is emphasized to us. This is certainly how I came up.... IF you were going to have kids, or sex since sex leads to kids, you had better be married, but you didn't NEED to be married since having an education and a career was very important.

If anything, I think it takes the pressure off, because although you may still see marriage as a big status thing that helps your social image, it's also very common and acceptable not to be married, and I'm not sure that Black women have traditionally had the whole woe-is-me thing if they don't get to be Bride Barbie for a day that some white women will go through if they aren't married by 30. I think that there's now a campaign to force more of that marriage thinking onto Black women to try to erase or belittle many of the other professional and educational gains we've made, to get women to think they ain't you-know-what without a husband, but before that all started, I think it was simpler for us than for others.

At least in my family/community, informal marriage-arranging was not uncommon either. Not sure if that's normal for the wider African-Caribbean or African-American community, but I am a fan of that approach.
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











I think there are cultural factors that play into this, too.

Not trying to generalize! I'm the last person to want to generalize about African Americans. Or really anyone. But I think when you talk about African Americans dating and getting married, thereare other factors at play that European Americans don't experience.

That's not to excuse any bad behavior or bad decisions. But I think the process is more complcated for African Americans.

Not talking specifically about a man shortage or the theory that Black women are unilaterally despised by all men and all that.

But...more in terms of What AAs are conditioned to think of as an ideal man/woman and an ideal partner. And the extra pressure to prove we're worthy marital candidates bc of unreralistic expectations and lack of good role models and extra pressures on Black families once a couple has married.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
Interesting. I would say that for many of the Black people I know, marriage is seen as this HUGE GOAL and put on a pedestal in and of itself because it is more rare in our community and therefore comes with higher social status and class significance. So people will make more compromises and accept more garbage to get married. So there seems to be more "settling" by women. We tend not to feel as free as white women to just go ahead and have kids out of wedlock because we will be judged while they will be considered liberated, so if we want kids, many of us will marry just anyone to get them, or if we have an accidental pregnancy, we'll marry him regardless of whether it is a good decision.

I'm not sure about the part about being conditioned to think of an ideal man or the pressure to show you are a worthy marital partner. If anything, I think, and maybe the African-Caribbean community is different, that we have trouble accepting a equal partnership with someone because we grow up in matriarchal homes and being independent and not "needing" anyone is emphasized to us. This is certainly how I came up.... IF you were going to have kids, or sex since sex leads to kids, you had better be married, but you didn't NEED to be married since having an education and a career was very important.

If anything, I think it takes the pressure off, because although you may still see marriage as a big status thing that helps your social image, it's also very common and acceptable not to be married, and I'm not sure that Black women have traditionally had the whole woe-is-me thing if they don't get to be Bride Barbie for a day that some white women will go through if they aren't married by 30. I think that there's now a campaign to force more of that marriage thinking onto Black women to try to erase or belittle many of the other professional and educational gains we've made, to get women to think they ain't you-know-what without a husband, but before that all started, I think it was simpler for us than for others.

At least in my family/community, informal marriage-arranging was not uncommon either. Not sure if that's normal for the wider African-Caribbean or African-American community, but I am a fan of that approach.
Originally Posted by Amneris
Re. worrying about whether you are a worthy marriage partner...I had several scenarios in mind but mainy that, as quiet as it's kept, i think lots of AA men don't feel worthy/ready/up to the task of being a husband bc they don't fee they can be an adequate provider. Or even on some level, they might not feel they can be an adequate protector. Or if there the woman already has kids from a previous relationship/marriage (which is often the case anymore), the worries the kids or kids' fathers or the woman will undermine his authority if he marries her. Or maybe she makes more money than he does and lets it be known that she doesn't need him.

Or maybe the woman has bought into all the sexist, racist hype about not looking like a video hoochie, and therefore not deserving of marriage.

Re. extra pressure on the couple, I meant, all the vestiges of racism on top of problems everyone else experiences, like not being able to keep up w/ the joneses, not being able to affort to live in a safe neighborhood, facing unstable employment, dealing w/ excess stress at work, dealing w/ the problems of extended family (e.g., legal).

While for White ppl, it seems like marriage is basically just business as usual...something you can naturally expect to happen, for Black ppl, it's so emotionally charged and politicized. And it has turned into a kind of power struggle bc Black men are starting to use it as a carrot to dangle in fromnt of women bc the belief is that so many of us now want so badly to be "legitimized" in that way.

I've had guys say/imply to me, "be a good woman to me and I just might give you my name."

And I'm like "first, I can't get married. Second, I don't want to. Third, I already have a name (and I don't mean my mother's). Fourth, what have you done for me lately?"

And by that time the guy the poor guy doesn't know what to say. That was his piece de resistance. LOL
3b (with 3c tendencies) on modified CG

I think there are cultural factors that play into this, too.

Not trying to generalize! I'm the last person to want to generalize about African Americans. Or really anyone. But I think when you talk about African Americans dating and getting married, thereare other factors at play that European Americans don't experience.

That's not to excuse any bad behavior or bad decisions. But I think the process is more complcated for African Americans.

Not talking specifically about a man shortage or the theory that Black women are unilaterally despised by all men and all that.

But...more in terms of What AAs are conditioned to think of as an ideal man/woman and an ideal partner. And the extra pressure to prove we're worthy marital candidates bc of unreralistic expectations and lack of good role models and extra pressures on Black families once a couple has married.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
Interesting. I would say that for many of the Black people I know, marriage is seen as this HUGE GOAL and put on a pedestal in and of itself because it is more rare in our community and therefore comes with higher social status and class significance. So people will make more compromises and accept more garbage to get married. So there seems to be more "settling" by women. We tend not to feel as free as white women to just go ahead and have kids out of wedlock because we will be judged while they will be considered liberated, so if we want kids, many of us will marry just anyone to get them, or if we have an accidental pregnancy, we'll marry him regardless of whether it is a good decision.

I'm not sure about the part about being conditioned to think of an ideal man or the pressure to show you are a worthy marital partner. If anything, I think, and maybe the African-Caribbean community is different, that we have trouble accepting a equal partnership with someone because we grow up in matriarchal homes and being independent and not "needing" anyone is emphasized to us. This is certainly how I came up.... IF you were going to have kids, or sex since sex leads to kids, you had better be married, but you didn't NEED to be married since having an education and a career was very important.

If anything, I think it takes the pressure off, because although you may still see marriage as a big status thing that helps your social image, it's also very common and acceptable not to be married, and I'm not sure that Black women have traditionally had the whole woe-is-me thing if they don't get to be Bride Barbie for a day that some white women will go through if they aren't married by 30. I think that there's now a campaign to force more of that marriage thinking onto Black women to try to erase or belittle many of the other professional and educational gains we've made, to get women to think they ain't you-know-what without a husband, but before that all started, I think it was simpler for us than for others.

At least in my family/community, informal marriage-arranging was not uncommon either. Not sure if that's normal for the wider African-Caribbean or African-American community, but I am a fan of that approach.
Originally Posted by Amneris
Re. worrying about whether you are a worthy marriage partner...I had several scenarios in mind but mainy that, as quiet as it's kept, i think lots of AA men don't feel worthy/ready/up to the task of being a husband bc they don't fee they can be an adequate provider. Or even on some level, they might not feel they can be an adequate protector. Or if there the woman already has kids from a previous relationship/marriage (which is often the case anymore), the worries the kids or kids' fathers or the woman will undermine his authority if he marries her. Or maybe she makes more money than he does and lets it be known that she doesn't need him.

Or maybe the woman has bought into all the sexist, racist hype about not looking like a video hoochie, and therefore not deserving of marriage.

Re. extra pressure on the couple, I meant, all the vestiges of racism on top of problems everyone else experiences, like not being able to keep up w/ the joneses, not being able to affort to live in a safe neighborhood, facing unstable employment, dealing w/ excess stress at work, dealing w/ the problems of extended family (e.g., legal).

While for White ppl, it seems like marriage is basically just business as usual...something you can naturally expect to happen, for Black ppl, it's so emotionally charged and politicized. And it has turned into a kind of power struggle bc Black men are starting to use it as a carrot to dangle in fromnt of women bc the belief is that so many of us now want so badly to be "legitimized" in that way.

I've had guys say/imply to me, "be a good woman to me and I just might give you my name."

And I'm like "first, I can't get married. Second, I don't want to. Third, I already have a name (and I don't mean my mother's). Fourth, what have you done for me lately?"

And by that time the guy the poor guy doesn't know what to say. That was his piece de resistance. LOL
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
Oh, I see. Yeah, now you're talking about the messed-up dynamics between men and women in the Black community. I agree with all of that.

LOL... I don't want some dude's name, what the heck?

I agree marriage is very much politicized for us. And you didn't even get into the "shade" politics.
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











Take my observations w/ a grain of salt...but I think sometimes ppl get married and don't really LIKE the person they marry. Maybe they love them or care about them or have a strong stake in the marriage. But don't really like the person. Maybe don't respect them, either.

In these cases, it's often the woman who doesn't like the man bc she just wants babies or his money or increased status or whatever.

But sometimes, the man doesn't like (or respect) the woman. He feels trapped into marriage or can't do for himself or is just lonely or fell in love with the picture/stats/fantasy or whatever.

I don't think there is much hope for the situations. And I think avoiding such is key.
3b (with 3c tendencies) on modified CG

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