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Old 03-17-2013, 11:10 PM   #41
 
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I'm admittedly simple minded. If his semen is in the girl, he should die. Let his family choose the labs (10 or 100) that does the tests. If it's his semen, he should die. That won't deter other people but it will certainly deter him. If it's not his, then put him in prison for life because of the child porno.

Until he dies - whether a needle or natural causes -, the victims' family will be paying for his housing, health care, education if he wants, food, legal fees and whatever else he wants through their taxes.
And it's as simple as that. I know I'm a bad Buddhist for agreeing with the killing of any sentient being... But I totally agree with this. Your semen had no business in a child... PERIOD. There is no way you're innocent in that case. How would you have reasonable doubt? Damage to the child's body plus his semen is a case closed.

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Old 03-17-2013, 11:28 PM   #42
 
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Are you saying that this guy should have no punishment for what he did - if he's guilty?
I'm saying that we cannot starve prisoners or induce psychosis in them. By taking someone into custody, you take away their ability to care for themselves. In doing so, you become responsible for their well being and are obligated to provide for their basic needs.

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But they are privileged compared to a lot of folks to who don't have access to health care. They are priviledged compared to homeless who would love 3 hots and cot. And they are priviledged compared to a guy who has to bury his wife and deal with a daughter so violently violated.
Okay, so you've brought up two problems. One is that we fail to provide the public with shelter and healthcare. The other is that a man's wife was murdered and his daughter was raped. Which one is solved by letting prisoners die of exposure?
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:37 PM   #43
 
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I would like to add that there are people sitting on death row who either confessed or were found guilty, but it was proven later that they were innocent of the crime. The Dixmoor 5 and The Central Park Rape cases comes to mind. Thank goodness for the Innocence Project and programs like it.
Excellent point! I remember the Central Park jogger case very clearly, since the media seized on the tragedy as proof of a dangerous new form of crime called "wolfing": packs of young men prowling for victims to attack. People were in a constant state of terror for months as the media bombarded us with sensational tales on a daily basis.

And don't forget the West Memphis 3, whose convictions (including one sentenced to death) were based on coerced confessions.


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Old 03-17-2013, 11:54 PM   #44
 
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I don't get what people are saying about how, since murder is bad, we can do anything to murderers and still be good people. We can let them die of pneumonia. We can torture them with solitary confinement. We can eat sandwiches in front of them while they starve. We can do all this and more, however cruel or depraved, and still be good people.

I dunno. I prefer to focus less on what murderers deserve, and more on my own conduct.
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:28 AM   #45
 
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Are you saying that this guy should have no punishment for what he did - if he's guilty?
I'm saying that we cannot starve prisoners or induce psychosis in them. By taking someone into custody, you take away their ability to care for themselves. In doing so, you become responsible for their well being and are obligated to provide for their basic needs.

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But they are privileged compared to a lot of folks to who don't have access to health care. They are priviledged compared to homeless who would love 3 hots and cot. And they are priviledged compared to a guy who has to bury his wife and deal with a daughter so violently violated.
Okay, so you've brought up two problems. One is that we fail to provide the public with shelter and healthcare. The other is that a man's wife was murdered and his daughter was raped. Which one is solved by letting prisoners die of exposure?
So in this particular case, if the man is guilty, what should happen to him?
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:21 AM   #46
 
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Are you saying that this guy should have no punishment for what he did - if he's guilty?
I'm saying that we cannot starve prisoners or induce psychosis in them. By taking someone into custody, you take away their ability to care for themselves. In doing so, you become responsible for their well being and are obligated to provide for their basic needs.

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But they are privileged compared to a lot of folks to who don't have access to health care. They are priviledged compared to homeless who would love 3 hots and cot. And they are priviledged compared to a guy who has to bury his wife and deal with a daughter so violently violated.
Okay, so you've brought up two problems. One is that we fail to provide the public with shelter and healthcare. The other is that a man's wife was murdered and his daughter was raped. Which one is solved by letting prisoners die of exposure?
So in this particular case, if the man is guilty, what should happen to him?
If he is guilty he should be locked up for life without parole.
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:24 AM   #47
 
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So in this particular case, if the man is guilty, what should happen to him?
If he is guilty he should be locked up for life without parole.
+1. Child rapists don't do very well behind bars, since many inmates have children of their own.

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Old 03-18-2013, 07:02 AM   #48
 
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I'm admittedly simple minded. If his semen is in the girl, he should die. Let his family choose the labs (10 or 100) that does the tests. If it's his semen, he should die. That won't deter other people but it will certainly deter him. If it's not his, then put him in prison for life because of the child porno.

Until he dies - whether a needle or natural causes -, the victims' family will be paying for his housing, health care, education if he wants, food, legal fees and whatever else he wants through their taxes.
He can be deterred by a stiff life sentence, though - killing him isn't the only way to accomplish that. And it may be he is undeterrable, but we should still behave with some humanity towards him, otherwise he robs us of that too.

I don't think child porn deserves life in prison, as troubling as it is. There are also a lot of issues now with the internet as to whether people went to those sites or someone else used their computer, whether they intended to download that, not to mention where you draw the line at art vs. porn, etc. etc. etc.

As to the victim's family housing him, we ALL house everyone in prison. It is a responsibility of tax payers, just like we all educate each other, pay for each other's health care, social assistance etc. Incarcerating people is very expensive. If this is really a concern, we should be locking up less people, using community sentencing and restorative justice whenever possible, and saving incarceration for the worst cases (like this guy) - then it would cost us less. The victim's family aren't personally housing anyone. They are not a party to this - it is the state that prosecutes.

Also, even when people get the death penalty, they still have to be housed for years to run through all the appeals, etc. so it's not like they'll be saved those expenses by killing him.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:07 AM   #49
 
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Inmates at least in CA get way too many privileges. In fact they get a lot more than a lot of working citizens who have no violent criminal history. It's disgusting!
What privileges do inmates get? I'm very interested in hearing more about this.
Inmates are fed, clothed, housed, get health care, medication, books, recreation, dental care, conjugal visits, education (college degrees are not unheard of)....it's easy to say those things aren't 'priviledges' but murder victims aren't getting those things are they?
If they don't get those things, then prison employees are at risk of riots and violence because of inmate dissatisfaction - and if this led to them escaping, it could endanger the public.

Plus, again, it shows humanity to treat them as human beings, and may help to rehabilitate some. If there were more programming in institutions perhaps more people would turn their lives around.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:12 AM   #50
 
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If someone confesses to a particularly heinous crime and there is compelling evidence (eye witnesses & DNA together for example) I don't think the person should have contact with any other humans (I don't care if the mind decays). Frankly, I wouldn't care if he (or she) was waterboarded every day of his life. I don't care if I seem bloodthirsty or vengeful when it comes to certain types of criminals; for everyone else I am softhearted to a fault.

I was molested when I was 8 and had a rape attempt when I was 20. I would be delighted if both men died a slow death screaming in pain.

ETA: Reiterating what I said in earlier post, I don't support DP because innocent people get killed. Unless there is some way to never make a mistake, I am against it.
I wouldn't place so much faith in confessions - do you know what police do to get them sometimes?

Sorry for what happened to you.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:16 AM   #51
 
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So in this particular case, if the man is guilty, what should happen to him?
If he is guilty he should be locked up for life without parole.
+1. Child rapists don't do very well behind bars, since many inmates have children of their own.

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And I don't think we should encourage other prisoners hurting them, either. They usually get segregated so others can't attack them and that deprives them of human interaction which is cruel.

I agree that he should get a life sentence and maybe the opportunity to make reparations as much as is possible.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:20 AM   #52
 
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We also haven't touched on the fact that this man may have a mental illness. Surely people aren't in favour of executing the mentally ill who cannot control their actions?

And for those concerned about housing and educating and treating prisoners - in many cases, given the socioeconomic and racial disparities in who is incarcerated, if we had invested more in their housing, education and medical care when they were younger, many people might not be costing us money as inmates today.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:24 AM   #53
 
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I agree with Amneris. I mean, I understand wanting to harm someone who has committed a heinous act, but as A said, where is our humanity in all this? Two wrongs don't make a right and all that. Amneris already said it better than I ever could.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:32 AM   #54
 
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If he is guilty he should be locked up for life without parole.
+1. Child rapists don't do very well behind bars, since many inmates have children of their own.

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And I don't think we should encourage other prisoners hurting them, either. They usually get segregated so others can't attack them and that deprives them of human interaction which is cruel.

I agree that he should get a life sentence and maybe the opportunity to make reparations as much as is possible.
I believe it is actually more humane to segregate them because whether we like it or not, there is a code in prison against pedophiles and they will be attacked.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:56 AM   #55
 
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Child Rapist don't rehabilitate. It's a fact. Put them in prison and leave them there. I don't care if the get educations and watch cable all day Just please stop letting them out of prison.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:06 AM   #56
 
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Got it.....so if this guy is guilty, then we put him away in comfortable (convenient?) surroundings so that he doesn't feel less human because he raped a 10 year old and killed her mother? We essentially say to him, "you did a bad thing so you have to stay here until we feel that you won't do that bad thing again. Let us know what we can do to keep you feeling as human as possible. If it's too cold or too hot or if your food isn't prepared to your satisfaction, let us know because we want to show that we're humane".
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:11 AM   #57
 
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Got it.....so if this guy is guilty, then we put him away in comfortable (convenient?) surroundings so that he doesn't feel less human because he raped a 10 year old and killed her mother? We essentially say to him, "you did a bad thing so you have to stay here until we feel that you won't do that bad thing again. Let us know what we can do to keep you feeling as human as possible. If it's too cold or too hot or if your food isn't prepared to your satisfaction, let us know because we want to show that we're humane".
From what I have seen of prisons, comfort and convenient would not be the words that come to mind. Especially for pedophiles and rapists.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:20 AM   #58
 
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Got it.....so if this guy is guilty, then we put him away in comfortable (convenient?) surroundings so that he doesn't feel less human because he raped a 10 year old and killed her mother? We essentially say to him, "you did a bad thing so you have to stay here until we feel that you won't do that bad thing again. Let us know what we can do to keep you feeling as human as possible. If it's too cold or too hot or if your food isn't prepared to your satisfaction, let us know because we want to show that we're humane".
I can certainly appreciate the thought that prisons must be comfortable, given that they do get fed and healthcare etc. But I highly recommend you volunteer some of your time to a prison at some point. I think you'll pretty quickly change your mind.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:32 AM   #59
 
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Got it.....so if this guy is guilty, then we put him away in comfortable (convenient?) surroundings so that he doesn't feel less human because he raped a 10 year old and killed her mother? We essentially say to him, "you did a bad thing so you have to stay here until we feel that you won't do that bad thing again. Let us know what we can do to keep you feeling as human as possible. If it's too cold or too hot or if your food isn't prepared to your satisfaction, let us know because we want to show that we're humane".
I can certainly appreciate the thought that prisons must be comfortable, given that they do get fed and healthcare etc. But I highly recommend you volunteer some of your time to a prison at some point. I think you'll pretty quickly change your mind.
Previous posters said that we must show this guy humane treatment. What is humane? He should be given food, shelter, healthcare, education, recreation, and whatever else he needs - except the ability to leave those four walls - to ensure that we don't act as savages.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:43 AM   #60
 
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Child Rapist don't rehabilitate. It's a fact. Put them in prison and leave them there. I don't care if the get educations and watch cable all day Just please stop letting them out of prison.
I agree. I can't understand why they let people like that out of jail. Over and over again.


To some of the other comments - its not that some of these people are mentally ill and can't control their actions, its all of them. Any person who rapes a child is NOT mentally okay, and because they do it over and over again, they clearly can't control it. Besides, I'm not entrusting a person who has these thoughts and feelings but is under an obligation to 'control' them. Thats crap.

And no I do not have humanity in this situation and I do not feel bad if they are harmed in prison.

Child rapists are cockroaches. I don't consider them human beings. Those people who sell their kids into sex slavery? Same deal. I just don't give a ****. And I'd have no remorse.



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