death penalty

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Child Rapist don't rehabilitate. It's a fact. Put them in prison and leave them there. I don't care if the get educations and watch cable all day Just please stop letting them out of prison.
Originally Posted by CGNYC
I think that child molesters are sick. And I think our care/protection of children is more important than their right to freedom. I hope someday psychology advances to a point where they could rehabilitate, but I don't believe in it now. Part of my problem with set sentences is that it means you're releasing someone who may still be a danger. I believe in rehabilitation any time it's possible, and think you should never release someone who is still a threat to those around him/her even if it's due to mental illness, especially for threats to children.
Originally Posted by NetG
Here in CA, we just passed prison realignment. We have paroled hundreds of pedophiles with ankle bracelets yet downsized the parole department. Pedophiles are cutting off their anklets in masses and there's nothing we can do until they re-offend. So another child need to lose their innocence before we can lock him back up.
Crime rates have gone up due to the inmates released. It's a wreck.

I've never understood releasing someone when we know they're a danger just because their sentence is up... but it happens every day. I also don't understand how someone spends 20+ years in a level 4 prison then they're free the next day to run their own lives. It's a recipe for disaster.
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Eilonwy

It's not an incentive and neither is the death penalty. They're major punishments, but they're too far removed for people to consider in deciding to commit a crime.
Than life without parole isn't an incentive either.

But is it really fair to punish someone for actions that were essentially involuntary due to psychosis? Is it fair to punish good people for suffering from illness? And the people who respond well to medication -- imagine the moment when they realize what they've done!

No, but I don't think it's fair to expose someone with a history of an extreme psychotic break to the public either. Especially since when they are released (once they are considered to not be a threat to themselves or others) there is nothing forcing them to take their medication. It's not so easy to commit them without their consent anymore either. It is ultimately up to them. I don't think it's rational to expect an irrational person to consistently take medication. What happens when they feel they no longer need medication and are "better"? They will stop taking it, and the cycle continues. I'm not stereotyping the mentally ill as violent, but I think in cases such as Virginia Tech, the more recent school shootings etc, many times in these cases these people were NOT unfamiliar with the inside of a mental hospital. I'm sure they received treatment, but for whatever reason did not receive further treatment and committed terrible crimes due to the illness.

I don't feel like it's punishment at all, and I don't think they should be in a prison environment. I think they should be in an environment where they receive consistent care for their illness. These people are prisoners of their own mind. Most of them are homeless, self medicate with drugs or alcohol, and in some cases become a danger to themselves and other people. In extreme cases where these people have committed horrible crimes, they should be treated in a mental institution in a community of their peers. If someone is medicated and realizes the crime they committed and is then released from the hospital. Now what? They are on their own. It doesn't erase the crime nor the mental illness. What do we tell the victims of these people? "Oh well they are getting treatment at a mental hospital and should be out shortly once they get better.". Then they go right back out into the street. This isn't the way to protect the public or protect the mentally ill. It's not to "punish" them but to give them the treatment they need. When the mental institutions shut down, it did a great disservice to people suffering from these illnesses....which is why many are homeless and are left to their own devices.

Also, it's no secret that the "insanity" defense is often time abused. Yes, maybe that person, after receiving treatment, could be horrified by his crime....or he could not. Insanity in these cases is too often used as a blanket term for every crime. Being mentally ill is not always relevant to a criminals actions. So for people who see "pleading insanity" as an easy way out of hard time, no....they can serve the same amount of time in a mental hospital. To the TRULY mentally ill people this will be a way for them to finally receive proper care and treatment, for someone who is simply abusing the system...they would end of serving the same amount of time as they would in prison. So no, I don't think them being in a mental hospital ( a well staffed facility that is properly trained) is punishment....but that's getting off into an entirely different discussion...


If it's fair to let some people be raped, that means rape can be fair and have a legitimate purpose. Do we really want to say rape is sometimes justified? Is that where we want to go?



I dont understand this response. I was saying that "torture" is subjective. To some people (myself included) putting a pedophile in an environment where he could be raped and abused...is torture. It's also problematic because the pedophile is more inclined to get out of prison than the murderer who raped him. I believe pedophiles who have committed a crime against a child should be put in solitary confinement period. They are in danger and also dangerous (again because they have short sentences and are hated in prison). As for those who are found to have possessed child pornography and things of that nature, I believe they should be put in a mental hospital (but this is also due to the fact that I believe pedophilia is a mental illness).


Huh??? How in the world does giving prisoners food conflict with protecting the public?! Life imprisonment is sufficient to separate dangerous prisoners from the public so they can't cause more harm, and life imprisonment necessarily involves not starving prisoners to death.

I don't think anyone was referencing food, clothing, and shelter. I should have put quotes around "basic necessities" as I was being sarcastic. As stated previously prisoners are assured those necessities moreso than law abiding citizens. But recreational activities for "fun" are not necessary. That is a privilege. It's not sufficient because once again to many people being on the street is worse than serving a life sentence. Within a couple of years, those people are institutionalized and prison life becomes who they are. It's not a "threat" or a punishment anymore...it just...is. I have a relative who was released from prison after committing a crime and couldn't "deal" with the real world, and committed another crime so he could go back. There was a man who made the news about a year ago. He intentionally committed a crime so that he could receive health care, guaranteed food and shelter. This isn't right. When prison life becomes "better than life on the street" how can it be a punishment?
I think our whole justice system is jacked up. The last thing it needs to be doing is given death sentences until it is fix. jutice is not blind and the privilage few constantly gets away with murder while those at the bottom of the barrel can face life in prison for being a drug addict.

if drug addiction is an illness, and some say lusting after children is an illness, how is it fair that someone like that who is harming innocent lives gets a slap on a risk, when a drug addict can get life??

why is it a child could commit a crime, but have no hope for a future, but some one who rapes little children needs rehabilitation?

I cant speak of anything countries justice system excpet for the one i know, have had to deal with with, and hear about constantly. America's system is beyond flawed, and the last thing it shoud be doing is deciding people's fates. I'm so tired of hearing about innocent people spending their whole lives locked up. but criminals beign let free. if this man was not allowed to go free so easily after them finding all that child porn, that lady would be alive and her daughter's innocence still intact.
Inmates at least in CA get way too many privileges. In fact they get a lot more than a lot of working citizens who have no violent criminal history. It's disgusting!
Originally Posted by crimsonshedemon
What privileges do inmates get? I'm very interested in hearing more about this.
Depending on his race, he may get killed in prison. But not always. I have absolutely no sympathy for garbage like this.
Originally Posted by crimsonshedemon
So racist violence is perfectly fine sometimes. Would you say that's a fair restatement?
Originally Posted by Eilonwy
Inmates and privileges- i'm talking about level 4 inmates. People who have done horrible, despicable acts that you can't even imagine. The newspaper does not print these details or pictures. It's impossible to understand how a human being can act like this to another human being.
I'm not talking about taking care of their general health but the abuse of the system. Inmates use the medical system to take field trips, get needles, meds, to communicate with other inmates, etc. Just medically, they get unlimited priority drs appointments with specialists, redundant testing, meds (so they can sell them later), specialists- all free of charge even tho they have money on their books. Even sex changes, organ transplants, etc. Then there's dental- crowns, dentures, bridges, etc. There are a lot of honest people who cant obtain these services but if you are a rapist, murder, pedophile, you are set. It's not right!
Then there's tv, movies, workout equipment (free weights were finally removed but there are still other equipment), yoga, recreational classes, arts and crafts, board games, musical instruments, music, and lots lots more. It's hardly hard time.
The level 4 prison here goes thru their annual medical budget in 2 months. That's how out of control it is.
In level 1- they literally have free range. Last time I was at the prison, there were 3 inmates sitting by the front door. I'm surprised more dont walk away.
Racist violence? That's not what I said. A fair restatement? No I wouldnt. Prison yards are self segregated by race. There isnt a lot of interaction because it's all about self preservation. Some races take care of their own business (running off pedophiles, assaulting them and occasionally if something happened, attempted murder or murder- not every attack is meant to kill) and wont tolerate pedophiles. Other races do not care because it's a numbers game. Pedophiles have the option of going to the sny yard (special needs) which is full of pedophiles, rapist, homosexuals, and even gang members that have debriefed (tho they hate being on this yard, they cant be in general population once they debrief) but for whatever reason, not all do right away.
Originally Posted by crimsonshedemon
not understanding how homosexual is comparable to pedophile, rapist, or gang member.

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[QUOTE=crimsonshedemon;

They get all the same privileges. Even Level 4 inmates get conjugal visits unless they have a committed a violent crime.
Don't forget they get tax returns with earned income credit no less, social security and more[/QUOTE]


Maybe in CA. In many states, there are no conjugal visits. Can you back up your information about the tax returns?

Last edited by cosmicfly; 03-21-2013 at 07:57 PM.

They get all the same privileges. Even Level 4 inmates get conjugal visits unless they have a committed a violent crime.
Don't forget they get tax returns with earned income credit no less, social security and more
Originally Posted by crimsonshedemon;

Maybe in CA. In many states, there are no conjugal visits. Can you back up your information about the tax returns?
Originally Posted by cosmicfly
The part about the earned income tax credit is also untrue.

Inmate's income. Amounts received for work performed while an inmate in a penal institution are not earned income for the earned income credit. This includes amounts received for work performed while in a work release program or while in a halfway house.
Link

The thing about prison income is we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. Do we really want to release felons into society with no money, no jobs and no homes and expect them not to reoffend? Even if they don't reoffend, they'll go on public assistance so what's the point?
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Quote:
When are women going to face the fact that they donít know their own bodies as well as men who have heard things?

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They get all the same privileges. Even Level 4 inmates get conjugal visits unless they have a committed a violent crime.
Don't forget they get tax returns with earned income credit no less, social security and more
Originally Posted by crimsonshedemon;

Maybe in CA. In many states, there are no conjugal visits. Can you back up your information about the tax returns?
Originally Posted by cosmicfly
The part about the earned income tax credit is also untrue.

Inmate's income. Amounts received for work performed while an inmate in a penal institution are not earned income for the earned income credit. This includes amounts received for work performed while in a work release program or while in a halfway house.
Link

The thing about prison income is we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. Do we really want to release felons into society with no money, no jobs and no homes and expect them not to reoffend? Even if they don't reoffend, they'll go on public assistance so what's the point?
Originally Posted by mrspoppers
That's what I thought, sorry the quotes didn't work. Inmates can't collect social security either (although I'm not sure if their dependents can) .

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