Gosnell Trial

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We are so off the rails. Now it has turned into a whole conversation of liberals vs conservatives. I'm not interested in that debate. I don't need to change ppl to my beliefs on taxes, school choice etc. but what you are saying, if I can use my analogy again is 'if you want to abolish slavery, then you must give all the land owners an easy way to get cheap labor'. That doesn't follow logically. IF something is immoral, it must be abolished. Period. End of story. It doesn't mean we have to now pay for day care, although I gladly would if that was the trade. I don't think you all are understanding my point. My point is that the unborn are human beings and therefore, deserve protection under the law. They ought not be killed for convenience.

You can ALWAYS give the child up for adoption if you are unable to care for him/her. Crisis averted.
Originally Posted by TheMisses
Slavery is immoral because it is the violent coercion of human beings to be other peoples' property and be their forced labour to make a profit for them, and it destroys the dignity and autonomy of the slave. That is a completely different situation than someone exercising their autonomy to make a choice about an abortion for a fetus that doesn't yet have autonomy. No one is profiting from that situation - it's the result of social failures, as I said above.

Adoption comes with its whole set of issues. Plus the pregnant woman is still going to need a lot of medical care and resources if the child has any hope of being adopted - and this is assuming she is even willing and able to go through a forced pregnancy to provide a child for someone else. Not everyone wants to adopt a child of colour. And not much of a market for kids with damaged brains from maternal alcohol or drug use, with disabilities, etc.
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So...what exactly do you suggest we do? You're exactly right, you want to RESULT but how we guna get there without more and more gosnells poppin up to give women these services?

How are we going to convince these women they don't NEED an abortion?

Adoption is not a good option for most because many feel like me, the system is full enough. A lot of those same mothers were in the foster system and we're abused.

How are we going to show these women that yes we want to take away this right from you because you dont NEED IT we can work together and help you feel less hopeless in your situation.

Let's help prevent these pregnancies. Prevent women from staying on welfare and foodstamps forever by making it easier to get an education.

Tell me exactly...what is your plan to make women feel like this isn't a right they need to have. And don't say it's immoral or comparable to slavery because you will lose them. They dont believe what you do.
How can I say goodbye P.L.G.
Originally Posted by B-Nessa11
Well so much would have to change in order to make women feel they don't need to kill their babies. But I would probably start with advancing a culture of life, teaching respect for life and all humans in #1. I would want to incentivize families to stay together and work together, so while I wouldn't get rid of existing programs I would want to reform them to make things improve. I would want welfare to get more involved in assisting in tact families and not kicking them to the curb just because the man is in the house.

Within those programs should be mandatory things that help people learn how to budget and invest their money. Giving them education not on advanced science etc that they could care less about, but rather life skills. I think this would help people to get off and create less need. That is the goal. But keeping a barbaric practice legal just to avoid actually helping is wrongheaded.
Ammeris: Exactly. Who's about to adopt some crackbabies? Or adopt an entire family of unwanted babies who are now kids in the system about to be separated? Like I been saying, let me see some changes. I would like to give the children already in the system more of a voice and hold these foster parents accountable for taking in kids just to get welfare and foodstamps and a social security check from the government. Crisis not averted.

TheMisses: so if you basically want the same things I do, what's the problem? Cuz until some of these things go about abolishing abortion ain't guna happen. Most of the time there isn't a family to keep tgt. There's just a woman.
How can I say goodbye P.L.G.
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3c/4a-b looking stuff lol
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Why I chopped: heat damage/breakage
Luv'd my permed hair I just didnt take care of it.
LUVVV my natural hair!!!

Last edited by B-Nessa11; 04-25-2013 at 08:47 AM.
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 45
We are so off the rails. Now it has turned into a whole conversation of liberals vs conservatives. I'm not interested in that debate. I don't need to change ppl to my beliefs on taxes, school choice etc. but what you are saying, if I can use my analogy again is 'if you want to abolish slavery, then you must give all the land owners an easy way to get cheap labor'. That doesn't follow logically. IF something is immoral, it must be abolished. Period. End of story. It doesn't mean we have to now pay for day care, although I gladly would if that was the trade. I don't think you all are understanding my point. My point is that the unborn are human beings and therefore, deserve protection under the law. They ought not be killed for convenience.

You can ALWAYS give the child up for adoption if you are unable to care for him/her. Crisis averted.
Originally Posted by TheMisses
Slavery is immoral because it is the violent coercion of human beings to be other peoples' property and be their forced labour to make a profit for them, and it destroys the dignity and autonomy of the slave. That is a completely different situation than someone exercising their autonomy to make a choice about an abortion for a fetus that doesn't yet have autonomy. No one is profiting from that situation - it's the result of social failures, as I said above.

Adoption comes with its whole set of issues. Plus the pregnant woman is still going to need a lot of medical care and resources if the child has any hope of being adopted - and this is assuming she is even willing and able to go through a forced pregnancy to provide a child for someone else. Not everyone wants to adopt a child of colour. And not much of a market for kids with damaged brains from maternal alcohol or drug use, with disabilities, etc.
Originally Posted by Amneris
Abortion is immoral because it is the violent killing of innocent human beings. Newborns aren't autonomous either. Should they be killed? What do you mean nobody profits???????? Abortion is a multi BILLION dollar industry.
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Ammeris: Exactly. Who's about to adopt some crackbabies? Or adopt an entire family of unwanted babies who are now kids in the system about to be separated? Like I been saying, let me see some changes. I would like to give the children already in the system more of a voice and hold these foster parents accountable for taking in kids just to get welfare and foodstamps and a social security check from the government. Crisis not averted.

TheMisses: so if you basically want the same things I do, what's the problem? Cuz until some of these things go about abolishing abortion ain't guna happen. Most of the time there isn't a family to keep tgt. There's just a woman.
How can I say goodbye P.L.G.
Originally Posted by B-Nessa11
You cannot justify abortion just because the adoption system isnt perfect though. As I said before. The adoption system not being perfect does not suddenly make abortion morally justifiable.


This is interesting. The abortion rate for affluent women has dropped and the abortion rate for poor women has increased in the same time period.

Why? Because affluent women have access to effective birth control they can afford, but not poor women.

But no, we don't want to help poor women get access to affordable healthcare (which includes birth control), that it not the government's job, that would be a nanny state. They are on their own until they get knocked up and on their own after they have a baby. But while there's a fetus in their bodies it's not a nanny state for the government to be all up in their vagina.

And if we want to mention adoption, besides all the issues mentioned above by pp's(not wanting to put kids into an overwhelmed system, brown/black babies being less adoptable, etc) of course requiring employers to provide paid sick leave, health insurance etc to low-wage workers would be the nanny state. So a woman has to risk her job in case she experiences morning sickness or has to take time off for prenatal care to carry a baby she does not want, and then show up to work right after she has the baby and gives it away, never mind her physical or mental or hormonal condition.
To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
I pray none of you ever has to live in a communist state.

Geeky is my hero. She's the true badass. The badass who doesn't even need to be a badass. There aren't enough O's in cool to describe her.
I'm not asking for perfection I'm asking for improvement. You're asking for perfection. N a perfect world abortion would not exist no matter what the situation of the parents. In a perfect world every woman would be ok with carrying a baby inside of them for 9months and then giving it away and probably never seeing it again. You risk that same baby hating the biological mother because they feel abandonment. I'm saying this because I know firsthand.
You want to completely get rid of abortion FIRST then deal with all these new babies n the system barely being taken care of. Bring them in FIRST then talk about abuse of welfare and foodstamps. Bring the baby in FIRST then talk about the parents being ignorant for not preventing the pregnancy in the first place or women having 8 kids and getting 900 bucks in foodstamps.

.....drops the mike

How can I say goodbye P.L.G.
Who's My Hair?
3c/4a-b looking stuff lol
BC- May 16, 2010
Why I chopped: heat damage/breakage
Luv'd my permed hair I just didnt take care of it.
LUVVV my natural hair!!!
So you dont want a "nanny state", but you want the gov to outlaw abortion? you say dont rely on the gov, but still allow them to make laws based on what to do with my body? OK. damn this "nanny state" of a country! I'm going to go get high! thats cool since i'm not harming no babies, right?

Obama got high once. I'm just saying!
oh gawd, that man is horrible.

I'm pro-my-your-own-business. I dont care whether women abort or not because its not my body and Im not the one who has to raise that child. I'd want the abortion done early because it seems less invasive and risky. I just want it done safely and the legal issues to be fair when it comes to class and race for all women.

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So you dont want a "nanny state", but you want the gov to outlaw abortion? you say dont rely on the gov, but still allow them to make laws based on what to do with my body? OK. damn this "nanny state" of a country! I'm going to go get high! thats cool since i'm not harming no babies, right?

Obama got high once. I'm just saying!
Originally Posted by thelio
Can I get high with you after I get outta class?

How can I say goodbye P.L.G.
Who's My Hair?
3c/4a-b looking stuff lol
BC- May 16, 2010
Why I chopped: heat damage/breakage
Luv'd my permed hair I just didnt take care of it.
LUVVV my natural hair!!!
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 45
The govt isn't in your vagina by protecting all humans with the same laws. It is not the nanny state to protect all human life. That is one job that the government is actually supposed to do. This is akin to saying abolishing slavery was the nanny state because they are 'all up in my plantation'. Ridiculous.
The govt isn't in your vagina by protecting all humans with the same laws. It is not the nanny state to protect all human life. That is one job that the government is actually supposed to do. This is akin to saying abolishing slavery was the nanny state because they are 'all up in my plantation'. Ridiculous.
Originally Posted by TheMisses
Plantation is property. My vagina is mine. It can't be taken away from me by the government.

Let's start with these men. Who's up for a lil testicular snipping. That will prevent a lot of unwanted pregnancy


How can I say goodbye P.L.G.
Amneris likes this.
Who's My Hair?
3c/4a-b looking stuff lol
BC- May 16, 2010
Why I chopped: heat damage/breakage
Luv'd my permed hair I just didnt take care of it.
LUVVV my natural hair!!!
It'd be my womb the govt is in and it's still not welcome.

Like B-Ness said: My property.

+1 for neutering men.
Last relaxer: 8.4.10
BC: 9.6.11

when will your favs?

I'm not asking for perfection I'm asking for improvement. You're asking for perfection. N a perfect world abortion would not exist no matter what the situation of the parents. In a perfect world every woman would be ok with carrying a baby inside of them for 9months and then giving it away and probably never seeing it again. You risk that same baby hating the biological mother because they feel abandonment. I'm saying this because I know firsthand.
You want to completely get rid of abortion FIRST then deal with all these new babies n the system barely being taken care of. Bring them in FIRST then talk about abuse of welfare and foodstamps. Bring the baby in FIRST then talk about the parents being ignorant for not preventing the pregnancy in the first place or women having 8 kids and getting 900 bucks in foodstamps.

.....drops the mike

How can I say goodbye P.L.G.
Originally Posted by B-Nessa11
*slow clap feet stomp*

Sent from my N861 using CurlTalk App
So you dont want a "nanny state", but you want the gov to outlaw abortion? you say dont rely on the gov, but still allow them to make laws based on what to do with my body? OK. damn this "nanny state" of a country! I'm going to go get high! thats cool since i'm not harming no babies, right?

Obama got high once. I'm just saying!
Originally Posted by thelio
Can I get high with you after I get outta class?

How can I say goodbye P.L.G.
Originally Posted by B-Nessa11
guuuurl, you sure can! As long as we aint aborted no babies its all good in the hood!!
Abortion is a multi BILLION dollar industry.
Originally Posted by TheMisses
Not true, on many levels.

Planned Parenthood, which is the largest abortion provider in the US, made $87 million in net revenue (revenue minus expenses) in 2012. That's an M, not a B.

That number includes many other health care services, including mammograms, exams, birth control etc. Abortion only accounts for 3% of PP's services.

Since PP is a nonprofit organization (501(c)(3) status), that $87 million is not "profit", and must be reinvested into PP's operations. It also means that PP is heavily regulated, and subject to IRS scrutiny.
Amneris likes this.
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. - Jimi
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The govt isn't in your vagina by protecting all humans with the same laws. It is not the nanny state to protect all human life. That is one job that the government is actually supposed to do. This is akin to saying abolishing slavery was the nanny state because they are 'all up in my plantation'. Ridiculous.
Originally Posted by TheMisses
Plantation is property. My vagina is mine. It can't be taken away from me by the government.

Let's start with these men. Who's up for a lil testicular snipping. That will prevent a lot of unwanted pregnancy.
Originally Posted by B-Nessa11
Reminds me of the proposal to require rectal exams and cardiac stress tests for Viagra users, in response to transvaginal probes as a prerequisite for abortions. Let's end the double standards.
Abortion is a multi BILLION dollar industry.
Originally Posted by TheMisses
Not true, on many levels.

Planned Parenthood, which is the largest abortion provider in the US, made $87 million in net revenue (revenue minus expenses) in 2012. That's an M, not a B.

That number includes many other health care services, including mammograms, exams, birth control etc. Abortion only accounts for 3% of PP's services.

Since PP is a nonprofit organization (501(c)(3) status), that $87 million is not "profit", and must be reinvested into PP's operations. It also means that PP is heavily regulated, and subject to IRS scrutiny.
Originally Posted by yossarian
Look! if she wants it to be a B let it be a B!!! why you got to be corrected people all the time, dang! She is trying to make an argument, rather it is true or just pulled from thin air, let her do her thing.
Abortion is a multi BILLION dollar industry.
Originally Posted by TheMisses
Not true, on many levels.

Planned Parenthood, which is the largest abortion provider in the US, made $87 million in net revenue (revenue minus expenses) in 2012. That's an M, not a B.

That number includes many other health care services, including mammograms, exams, birth control etc. Abortion only accounts for 3% of PP's services.

Since PP is a nonprofit organization (501(c)(3) status), that $87 million is not "profit", and must be reinvested into PP's operations. It also means that PP is heavily regulated, and subject to IRS scrutiny.
Originally Posted by yossarian
Look! if she wants it to be a B let it be a B!!! why you got to be corrected people all the time, dang! She is trying to make an argument, rather it is true or just pulled from thin air, let her do her thing.
Originally Posted by thelio
20 bucks says she doesn't even have curly hair!
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. - Jimi
2c/3a, BSL, medium, low porosity
Low-poo: Bobeam and CV poo bars; Acure Argan Oil & Stem Cell
Conditioner: Acure Argan Oil & Stem Cell; Desert Essence Shea
Stylers: Sweet Curls Elixir Curl Cream; SM CES
PT: BASK Whiskey Soak

Not true, on many levels.

Planned Parenthood, which is the largest abortion provider in the US, made $87 million in net revenue (revenue minus expenses) in 2012. That's an M, not a B.

That number includes many other health care services, including mammograms, exams, birth control etc. Abortion only accounts for 3% of PP's services.

Since PP is a nonprofit organization (501(c)(3) status), that $87 million is not "profit", and must be reinvested into PP's operations. It also means that PP is heavily regulated, and subject to IRS scrutiny.
Originally Posted by yossarian
Look! if she wants it to be a B let it be a B!!! why you got to be corrected people all the time, dang! She is trying to make an argument, rather it is true or just pulled from thin air, let her do her thing.
Originally Posted by thelio
20 bucks says she doesn't even have curly hair!
Originally Posted by yossarian
what about wavy?

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