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Old 04-22-2013, 07:13 AM   #21
 
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riiight... sKorpio: for a job interview: weren't you in front of your clothes wondering what you were going to wear for the interview, making sure you hair was "ok"?

Even that is using your beauty... if you go for a job interview you always put a little effort in it...

You probably just don't admit to yourself that you have used your beauty before, even though not intentionally as RCW says

Everybody uses their beauty, there's only the difference in people who do it on purpose and who exaggerate, and people who don't do it intentionally but just want to look "decent" for the job interview/hot date/presentation/family reunion/...
Actually, I looked for clothes considered appropriate for an interview, and something that fit. No, I didn't stand there saying "hmmmm what makes me look good? What looks flattering on me? What makes me look pretty?" And I just wash my hair and go out, for any occasion. So Neleke, don't presume to know what I do or have done when you've never even met me ok? Thanks.
I don't think trying to look a certain way for an interview is necessarily a conscious effort to use your "beauty." Dressing for interviews is about trying to conform to the cultural norm of that industry/workplace to convey that you would fit in and understand the expectations of that place. If you are interviewing somewhere conservative, you want to wear a business suit, panty hose, have sleeker-looking hair, etc. whereas if you are interviewing somewhere creative, you want to wear a funky outfit of some kind, can do big hair, etc. In a conservative workplace, you don't want to stand out too much whereas in a creative one, you can. This is a separate type of issue than the issue of "beauty."

However, the notion of "beauty" is inherently built in to the different professional standards of dress for men than women. For example, male lawyers wear a suit of pants, tie and dress shirt and flat dress shoes. Their bodies are completely covered. Their weight doesn't really matter - they just buy the pant size that fits. It's a uniform look that looks much the same on everyone. For me as a woman however, I have the choice of a pant suit or a skirt suit, with the skirt suit still being considered the most formal. With the skirt suit, I wear pantyhose. My legs show and can be viewed. I also am expected to wear dress shoes, generally with heels, which elevate the body and create a certain walk that emphasizes the hips. Even if I wear pants, they're generally tailored around the hips and butt in a way that displays the female shape. Under the suit, there are different options for tops, but generally, breast shape and size will be visible and can be emphasized if desired. Then there are expectations of makeup, hair, nails etc. Most men have short, simple hair styles but a woman can still make a statement with her hair, or be expected to "control" her hair depending on hair type. So trying to "look good" for an interview or work for a man just means donning a uniform, while trying to "look good" for a woman inherently means doing things that may display or exploit "beautiful" traits if she has them, and trying to maximize them. So whether or not the woman is trying to do it, if she has certain traits and is dressed in business clothing, she will be perceived to be displaying her looks because that's what the cultural norms do for her. And if she lacks those traits, she will likely be judged in a way that a man lacking them won't.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:29 AM   #22
 
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I have known women who used and abused their physical beauty/power. Never worked, lived alone in high dollar apartments while several different men paid the bills, bought their food, bought their clothes, etc. This type of using behavior will eventually catch up to the person. It really has more to do with lacking decency toward others, and that had everything to do with how they were raised (and in several cases of ppl I know- not raised at all/left to fend for themselves at an early age). I have known many more who are knock outs, and have personalities/life skills to match, who could not even begin to do that. Others might do it on a much smaller scale.
I find this interesting. Here in vista Rica prostitution is legal, and one result of this is that we end up with a lot of old American men marrying beautiful locals in their 20s. No one is under the illusion that this is anything other than a transactional relationship, bit for the women involved they can access a life they would nit otherwise have been able to dream of. I don't think that the lacking of decency applies if there is awareness from both parties of what is happening


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Old 04-22-2013, 07:30 AM   #23
 
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I think everyone is pretty in their own way. Everyone looks different so there's no way to say who's pretty. It's someone's opinion and my opinion, is that I've never seen an ugly woman. I honestly have not seen a woman who I would be like "she's ugly" or she's not pretty, because who says. I don't judge...but when I do judge, they're males.

Misandry for life.
This has always been one of my favorite things about (some) women. I love the ability that women have to look at another woman and say, "She is so pretty" and mean it. It doesn't always have everything to do with the woman's physical features. It might be other things coming through or one thing like a smile that lights up the world and makes you feel happy in return.

Men rarely do that. You will hear a few that say, he's a good looking guy.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:35 AM   #24
 
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I have known women who used and abused their physical beauty/power. Never worked, lived alone in high dollar apartments while several different men paid the bills, bought their food, bought their clothes, etc. This type of using behavior will eventually catch up to the person. It really has more to do with lacking decency toward others, and that had everything to do with how they were raised (and in several cases of ppl I know- not raised at all/left to fend for themselves at an early age). I have known many more who are knock outs, and have personalities/life skills to match, who could not even begin to do that. Others might do it on a much smaller scale.
I find this interesting. Here in vista Rica prostitution is legal, and one result of this is that we end up with a lot of old American men marrying beautiful locals in their 20s. No one is under the illusion that this is anything other than a transactional relationship, bit for the women involved they can access a life they would nit otherwise have been able to dream of. I don't think that the lacking of decency applies if there is awareness from both parties of what is happening


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Well, in the cases I was talking about, it was not/is not in the open. The men involved had no idea about the others, and were under the impression that they were the only one. Some were away in the military and sending almost every dollar they earned.

ETA: Very long and messed up story about a very close former friend of mine. She had a horrific childhood (she did) and had been on her own since 13. Lived with different people all through school. Always had upwards of 3 men supporting her, and became an impossible user to be around. She used her looks, or her life story to get more, and more, and more and eventually started stealing things from people who let her in, if they would not give her what she asked for.

If the cards are on the table, it does become a different situation.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:40 AM   #25
 
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Yeah then its more like fraud, and as bad as any other way of getting something in an underhand way, but again is that really about the value of pretty, or more about the fact that some people will use whatever they have to cheat others?

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Old 04-22-2013, 07:55 AM   #26
 
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Yeah then its more like fraud, and as bad as any other way of getting something in an underhand way, but again is that really about the value of pretty, or more about the fact that some people will use whatever they have to cheat others?

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Basically, yes.

Some of the guys were great people, who were head over heels in love with her. She used that. Others who were wealthy often mistreated or abused her. She allowed it for the money. She was an incredibly beautiful woman who was very aware of her beauty and power, had no problems using it, but also had incredibly low self esteem.

Catch 22.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:13 AM   #27
 
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I know I have always valued my smarts and personality over my looks. i always felt my brainz would get me further in life. beauty fades stoopid is forever.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:20 AM   #28
 
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I know I have always valued my smarts and personality over my looks. i always felt my brainz would get me further in life. beauty fades stoopid is forever.
Common sense and a kind heart for me. That's what I value most in anyone.

*And a good sense of humor. The ability to laugh can make anyone even more attractive.
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When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??


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Old 04-22-2013, 08:45 AM   #29
 
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There is plenty of documented evidence that society bestows a higher status on attractive women than on unattractive and rewards attractive women w/ plenty of benefits. So yes, it kind of does matter.

The two corollaries tho are:

1) in absolute terms, men still weild a lot more societal power over women, despite the status that female beauty might confer.

2) beauty is a rather mutable characteristic; with make up, grooming, dental work, diet/exercise, surgery, etc. most women can improve their looks A LOT...if it's a high enough priority to them.
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:36 AM   #30
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But pretty enough for what? What is the goal to be achieved by a person's level of prettiness?
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:21 PM   #31
 
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ETA: Very long and messed up story about a very close former friend of mine. She had a horrific childhood (she did) and had been on her own since 13. Lived with different people all through school. Always had upwards of 3 men supporting her, and became an impossible user to be around. She used her looks, or her life story to get more, and more, and more and eventually started stealing things from people who let her in, if they would not give her what she asked for.

If the cards are on the table, it does become a different situation.
Oh boy this sounds just like my friend who i had to break up with. I'm still friends with her but on a distant level. I'll meet up with her. She used to basically live at my place on weekends for a while and was a party friend. But she was just too much. The stealing from friends and even me and manipulating situations with me finally ticked me off.
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:24 PM   #32
 
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There is plenty of documented evidence that society bestows a higher status on attractive women than on unattractive and rewards attractive women w/ plenty of benefits. So yes, it kind of does matter.

The two corollaries tho are:

1) in absolute terms, men still weild a lot more societal power over women, despite the status that female beauty might confer.

2) beauty is a rather mutable characteristic; with make up, grooming, dental work, diet/exercise, surgery, etc. most women can improve their looks A LOT...if it's a high enough priority to them.
Yes same applies with men - taller and more attractive men generally get more rewards. Women can change appearance more so than men but looks is still more valued for women than men. It's still easier for an unattractive man to compete than an unattractive woman. This is because men are still the ones in power.
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:45 PM   #33
 
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ETA: Very long and messed up story about a very close former friend of mine. She had a horrific childhood (she did) and had been on her own since 13. Lived with different people all through school. Always had upwards of 3 men supporting her, and became an impossible user to be around. She used her looks, or her life story to get more, and more, and more and eventually started stealing things from people who let her in, if they would not give her what she asked for.

If the cards are on the table, it does become a different situation.
Oh boy this sounds just like my friend who i had to break up with. I'm still friends with her but on a distant level. I'll meet up with her. She used to basically live at my place on weekends for a while and was a party friend. But she was just too much. The stealing from friends and even me and manipulating situations with me finally ticked me off.
It's exhausting when someone just takes.

Yes, she stole from me too. My family had given her a place to live, I had given her boots because she had shoes with holes in them or heels and winter was approaching. My mom bought her a coat and some sweaters. Then she decided to move to Florida with a guy she had just met, and demanded I give her 2 other pairs of my shoes and some of my summer clothes. I said no (which she could not fathom) and she stole them before she left. She did that to many people, and burned all of her bridges.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:09 PM   #34
 
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Pretty enough being, pretty enough for yourself?

I think so. When I was younger I picked myself apart more. I swore I needed a nose job, my eyes were too fat, my face too round - I haven't thought that in a long time.

Now I'm a bit happier with myself. I would like to be 10 lbs thinner, which I could do but I'm not interested in being so strict as to achieve it. I wish my hair were longer, which I could get there but my hair just takes so long to grow.

Overall I'm very happy with my looks, myself, my life, my etc. Even though I haven't made all the best choices, and have probably set myself back a few years, but we all have. I appreciate life lessons through experience.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:24 PM   #35
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I think I'm beautiful. Not everyone's type but yes. beautiful.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:03 PM   #36
 
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I think I'm beautiful. Not everyone's type but yes. beautiful.

You remind me of the lady who plays janis in mean girls, she also plays amy, jason stackhouse's gf on season 1 of true blood.


and also a little bit of katy perry

you so peerrrrdy
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:51 PM   #37
 
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I think I'm beautiful. Not everyone's type but yes. beautiful.

You remind me of the lady who plays janis in mean girls, she also plays amy, jason stackhouse's gf on season 1 of true blood.


and also a little bit of katy perry

you so peerrrrdy

Oh my gosh, I never made that connection with that actress and those two characters!
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:53 PM   #38
 
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I think I'm beautiful. Not everyone's type but yes. beautiful.

You remind me of the lady who plays janis in mean girls, she also plays amy, jason stackhouse's gf on season 1 of true blood.


and also a little bit of katy perry

you so peerrrrdy

Oh my gosh, I never made that connection with that actress and those two characters!


lol yea, after I wrote that I was like I hope she doesn't take janis as an insult! hahahahah, even though I thought janis was pretty even with her greased down sideburn hair thing she had going on.


I didn't realize either at first, I was like, she (on true blood) looks so familiar, and then it hit me.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:01 PM   #39
 
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You remind me of the lady who plays janis in mean girls, she also plays amy, jason stackhouse's gf on season 1 of true blood.


and also a little bit of katy perry

you so peerrrrdy

Oh my gosh, I never made that connection with that actress and those two characters!


lol yea, after I wrote that I was like I hope she doesn't take janis as an insult! hahahahah, even though I thought janis was pretty even with her greased down sideburn hair thing she had going on.


I didn't realize either at first, I was like, she (on true blood) looks so familiar, and then it hit me.
I saw her picture on Pinterest and I knew she was from True Blood but I could not figure out where else I'd seen her. I knew there was something.

I never would've made the Janis connection.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:19 PM   #40
 
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Fascinating discussion here..... but I find I'm deeply, deeply disturbed by the concept of pretty "enough.". "Enough?" Really? Does this mean that a lack of prettiness is an inherent insufficiency? That prettiness is an essential, life-sustaining resource? Yikes. Is anybody else seriously creeped out by this concept?

But I'm probably overthinking it. Plus, I have to go to bed because it's late and I'm tired and can't type, and every time I tried to write "fascinating" I thought it looked like "fascist" and couldn't figure out what was wrong. To bed! Talk among yourselves......
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