Any cat experts out there?

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I agree with everyone else in second opinion. It's crazy not to test for thyroid kidney diabetes and such first. She's a geriatric cat and those are geriatric common conditions. See if you can find a feline only vet.
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Felv???? For inappropriate peeing??? I've never heard such a thing.
Originally Posted by chupie
I totally agree, chupie. This was the main reason why I think Jas might need a second opinion. Nothing her cat has done is indicative of feline leukemia.
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Diabetes and kidney problems are very likely. Are you using scented cat litter? a lot of cats won't use the bathroom there if there's a strong scent, especially citrus. Maybe she's just getting old, in cases like that sometimes you can't do anything about it. (Correct me if I'm wrong I'm 12 lol) I'm pretty sure that cat food has a lot of salt in it which could affect her kidneys, I know that it's different because cats need a lot of sodium but our dog was eating cat food and peeing a lot everywhere, (because of too much salt from the cat food).,.. I would check for diabetes If she's drinking a lot of water.
12 is geriatric but I wouldn't say old. It's the age they start becoming prone to old age diseases but cats live well into their teens usually.
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Behavioral changes dont make him money so of course he wants to run expensive tests first. Checking the kidneys is cheap at my vet.
Positive reinforcement is where I would start. You can make your house stimulating for your cats without them going outside. The guy on my cat from hell on animal planet does it all the time. Some cats are ground dwellers and others need to be perched on something. One thing he does for those who need to be off the ground is a perch by a window so they can watch outside. Stimulate them with toys too.
Also why would they need more vaccinations if they are not going to be exposed to more cats? You could make an enclosure that protects them from stray cats and thus no need for more vax.
Maybe contact a cat expert who can give more ideas.
I'm not sure I understand why you would need to vaccinate all your cats if the one cat is confined outside. The crate I linked to can be used inside your house. I can understand heartworm being transmitted through mosquitoes but heartworm prevention doesn't need vaccinations if you use Advantage or some other monthly topical treatment.
Originally Posted by divegirl
Regular Advantage repels mosquitos?
I use regular advantage and the flea still has to land on the animal before dies. It doesnt repel unfortunately.
In dogs a repellent isnt enough, they need a heartworm preventative if you live in an area with heartworm.
Cats are more resistant to hr than dogs so thats a good thing.
Ok...quickly before I head to bed!

The idea was to make her an indoor/outdoor cat, but her outdoor time would be in an enclosure. We actually have a storage shed near our house that we thought we could put a window cat door in and enclose her behind that shed. She'd get sun, air, and grass, room to run and climb a little even.

We have a water fountain, so she gets plenty of that.

She does eat only dry food (Iams for mature cats) - we have never been instructed to do anything different.

She is a very needy cat and doesn't get "enough" attention since we are very busy and have two young kids.

The reason the vet does felv first is bc she says if the cat has it there is nothing that can be done for her, and there is no reason to run any other tests or treatments. She sees it as a way to save us money.

But I am confident none of them have it.

They have had "indoor cat" vaccinations in the past, but every vet I've ever been to has said they aren't really necessary if they are indeed indoor cats. And mine are, so we haven't worried about it much. (Don't throw things at me.)


I am feeling more and more confident that I should take her for a 2nd opinion. This vet IS supposed to be a feline specialist, however.

Maybe we'll just go back and make some demands and see how that goes first.
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Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
Seal - MO or Jojoba
DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
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I am in desperate need of help. My cat won't stop peeing outside the box.

We have 3 cats. Two are 15, one is 12. They've all been together for 10yrs.

My 15yr old calico will not stop peeing on everything. We had to replace the carpet (with pergo) bc of her. (Though we were going to anyhow.). Now she pees on the rug at the bottom of the stairs, or upstairs on the carpet about 3 feet from her box.

We have 4 boxes and we scoop them nightly.

I have tried putting a plastic drop cloth down over the entire area she likes to go in, and she will just pee next to it.

She's been to the vet. She had a bladder infection, and they have her antibiotics. It cleared up fine but the peeing (on the carpets) is still non-stop.

The vet wants to run all these expensive tests before trying anything behavioral. (And I'm fairly sure this is behavioral.)

I'm so irritated. I've read they need outside time, so we thought about an outdoor enclosure - the vet said it wouldn't help, and we'd have to get all 3 of our cats fully "outdoor cat" vaccinated.

The vet said to NOT change the litter - we had thought about that Cat Attract litter, bc a friend recommended it and I'd read a lot about it. She said that would be a huge mistake.

So I'm at a loss. I love my cats, and I don't really believe in getting rid of a pet. But I have two young kids at home, and I don't want them covered in cat pee, I don't have time to constantly be cleaning up after this cat, and I don't want all our stuff ruined. Plus come July it's our busy season and we won't be home as much to find the problem in time to clean it up.

HELP!!!!
Originally Posted by Jas76
Pet insurance may cover a behaviourist, it would certainly cover expensive tests. Being irritated won't help, cats are like children and can pick up on stress in the household. Clean the flooring with an enzyme based product, never bleach.

You cannot be sure it is behavioural until the physical stuff has been ruled out, that is certainly possible if you are using cereal rich dry food and given their age. Sorry you have not been told this but IAMS is absolute rubbish, a feline is an obligate carnivore so must eat meat (including offal bone and fat not just muscle meat), they have no requirement for carbohydrates. Grains are added to cat food because they are cheap, manufacturers can use the waste from the human food industry. There are links with some kidney problems and with diabetes.

Viruses are basically naked DNA so do not survive long outside the host body. They are usually spread by relatively close contact although it does not have to be direct, they don't just blow in on the wind. For example humans can catch certain viruses from someone next to us coughing and sneezing, or from the infected having recently touched a door handle with dirty hands, then transferring that from our hands to our own face.

There is nothing manipulative about the vet running the physical tests first, that is the correct way in which to diagnose a condition, you rule in or out what you can relatively easily prove or disprove with tests that give a clear cut answer. It's also faster to run tests than to wait weeks for a behavioural therapy not to be effective or only to work partially then discover there is the animal has had an underlying health complaint all along. Bear in mind some cats are really good at disguising how sick they are.

Having said that you don't seem to trust your veterinarian's professional judgement so maybe it is time to go elsewhere. Sorry to sound harsh but honestly you might be best letting her go to a no kill shelter if you are unable to afford the tests your vet recommends or unable to dedicate the time needed, that is not a judgement just a statement of fact. It's unkind to allow her to suffer regardless of whether that is physical or mental.

My last cat had to be PTS on the day I took him to the vet for some seemingly minor symptoms, the vet commented how healthy and well muscled he looked as he was nosing around the examination room. The vet was almost convinced he had pancreatitis which cannot directly be tested for. So other tests/ scans were run under anaesthetic, revealing two huge tumours which will have left my darling boy in pain and could not have been treated. Although even the vet was shocked I have never forgiven myself for not taking him a few weeks earlier, I would have beaten myself up even more had I gone with the provisional pancreatitis diagnosis and not agreed to the recommended tests.
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I'm not sure I understand why you would need to vaccinate all your cats if the one cat is confined outside. The crate I linked to can be used inside your house. I can understand heartworm being transmitted through mosquitoes but heartworm prevention doesn't need vaccinations if you use Advantage or some other monthly topical treatment.
Originally Posted by divegirl
Regular Advantage repels mosquitos?
I use regular advantage and the flea still has to land on the animal before dies. It doesnt repel unfortunately.
In dogs a repellent isnt enough, they need a heartworm preventative if you live in an area with heartworm.
Cats are more resistant to hr than dogs so thats a good thing.
Originally Posted by crimsonshedemon
I use Advantage Multi. It doesn't repel mosquitoes but it does include a heartworm medication.
I am in desperate need of help. My cat won't stop peeing outside the box.

We have 3 cats. Two are 15, one is 12. They've all been together for 10yrs.

My 15yr old calico will not stop peeing on everything. We had to replace the carpet (with pergo) bc of her. (Though we were going to anyhow.). Now she pees on the rug at the bottom of the stairs, or upstairs on the carpet about 3 feet from her box.

We have 4 boxes and we scoop them nightly.

I have tried putting a plastic drop cloth down over the entire area she likes to go in, and she will just pee next to it.

She's been to the vet. She had a bladder infection, and they have her antibiotics. It cleared up fine but the peeing (on the carpets) is still non-stop.

The vet wants to run all these expensive tests before trying anything behavioral. (And I'm fairly sure this is behavioral.)

I'm so irritated. I've read they need outside time, so we thought about an outdoor enclosure - the vet said it wouldn't help, and we'd have to get all 3 of our cats fully "outdoor cat" vaccinated.

The vet said to NOT change the litter - we had thought about that Cat Attract litter, bc a friend recommended it and I'd read a lot about it. She said that would be a huge mistake.

So I'm at a loss. I love my cats, and I don't really believe in getting rid of a pet. But I have two young kids at home, and I don't want them covered in cat pee, I don't have time to constantly be cleaning up after this cat, and I don't want all our stuff ruined. Plus come July it's our busy season and we won't be home as much to find the problem in time to clean it up.

HELP!!!!
Originally Posted by Jas76
Pet insurance may cover a behaviourist, it would certainly cover expensive tests. Being irritated won't help, cats are like children and can pick up on stress in the household. Clean the flooring with an enzyme based product, never bleach.

You cannot be sure it is behavioural until the physical stuff has been ruled out, that is certainly possible if you are using cereal rich dry food and given their age. Sorry you have not been told this but IAMS is absolute rubbish, a feline is an obligate carnivore so must eat meat (including offal bone and fat not just muscle meat), they have no requirement for carbohydrates. Grains are added to cat food because they are cheap, manufacturers can use the waste from the human food industry. There are links with some kidney problems and with diabetes.

Viruses are basically naked DNA so do not survive long outside the host body. They are usually spread by relatively close contact although it does not have to be direct, they don't just blow in on the wind. For example humans can catch certain viruses from someone next to us coughing and sneezing, or from the infected having recently touched a door handle with dirty hands, then transferring that from our hands to our own face.

There is nothing manipulative about the vet running the physical tests first, that is the correct way in which to diagnose a condition, you rule in or out what you can relatively easily prove or disprove with tests that give a clear cut answer. It's also faster to run tests than to wait weeks for a behavioural therapy not to be effective or only to work partially then discover there is the animal has had an underlying health complaint all along. Bear in mind some cats are really good at disguising how sick they are.

Having said that you don't seem to trust your veterinarian's professional judgement so maybe it is time to go elsewhere. Sorry to sound harsh but honestly you might be best letting her go to a no kill shelter if you are unable to afford the tests your vet recommends or unable to dedicate the time needed, that is not a judgement just a statement of fact. It's unkind to allow her to suffer regardless of whether that is physical or mental.

My last cat had to be PTS on the day I took him to the vet for some seemingly minor symptoms, the vet commented how healthy and well muscled he looked as he was nosing around the examination room. The vet was almost convinced he had pancreatitis which cannot directly be tested for. So other tests/ scans were run under anaesthetic, revealing two huge tumours which will have left my darling boy in pain and could not have been treated. Although even the vet was shocked I have never forgiven myself for not taking him a few weeks earlier, I would have beaten myself up even more had I gone with the provisional pancreatitis diagnosis and not agreed to the recommended tests.
Originally Posted by Firefox7275
I don't have pet insurance.

I am completely aware of how viruses spread - what I was stating is what SHE said, and that is why I questioned it.

I don't know if you saw this in another post of mine, but I have NO PROBLEM with running medical tests. I WANT them. I do however have a problem with kidney function and diabetes not being on that list when several other expensive tests for far less likely diseases are on the list first.

And it's not that I don't trust her professional opinion. I just question her methodology. There is a lot of conflicting info with what I've read and heard from fellow cat owners.

I'm not going to dump her into a shelter. I will get her the treatment she needs and will run tests on her. I don't agree with not running the more obvious and less expensive tests first, and I don't agree with not trying anything behavioral prior to running a list of tests that will literally cost $4000 to complete.
2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
Seal - MO or Jojoba
DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
I agree Jas. it's really odd to me to go after felv first and say no others. It's also very wrong to even think of she tested posted (highly unlikely given her age and indoor status) that there is nothing to be done. The root cause whether felv is present or not is not the felv. Strange viruses or unknown source fevers, maybe. Jaundice/liver. But inappropraite urination just isn't a hallmark of felv. I hope you aren't too overwhelmed and have at least gotten done good ideas where you want to go.
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Thanks, Chupie!

I am very overwhelmed - but not with info! Every little bit helps, and it's nice to hear that others have heard the same info as me and also would question some of her way of doing things.

She also said if she had felv that we would have to put her down immediately, and likely our other cats, too, since they'd probably have it, too. :/

She is very active, happy, and seemingly healthy cat. Even the vet said she was a young 15. So idk.

She saw our other cat who had an upper respiratory infection. She did an antibiotic injection but said she wanted to run a lot of tests on her (EKG, etc) bc she had a heart murmur (which we knew about), and she wanted to see of there was fluid, etc. Well the infection cleared up in days and she has been perfect ever since. She had us all scared, dangling CHF and cancer and brain tumor - it ended up being a bad cold, essentially.
2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
Seal - MO or Jojoba
DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
She also said if she had felv that we would have to put her down immediately, and likely our other cats, too, since they'd probably have it, too. :/

She is very active, happy, and seemingly healthy cat. Even the vet said she was a young 15. So idk.
Originally Posted by Jas76
This is just NUTS! It is completely false that a cat with felv needs to be put down! And it's hugely unlikely that your cat has it and yet is a "young 15" as even your vet said; most cats succumb to it after just a few years of contracting the virus (and since yours are indoors only, IF they one of them had it, they got it before they came to you). Feline Leukemia Virus (FeLV)

Gosh, Jas, I'm so sorry you are going through this! It really sounds like you need a second opinion, or, at the very least, go back to this vet, tell her that you will not put your cats down even if they have felv (so no reason to take the test), and that you want tests for diabetes and kidney disease.

Ugh this vet is making me mad.
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Cleanse: SM Moisture Retention, Elucence MBC, KC Come Clean
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Protein: AOGPB, CNPF, SSRPT
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Any vet that thinks a cat that is felv pos needs to be immediately destroyed along with every cat in the vicinity alarms me GREATLY. That's just false. And I'm still really not understanding why you'd jump to felv in an indoor only FIFTEEN y.o. Cat. That's just nuts.
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Last edited by chupie; 05-20-2013 at 09:30 AM.
Thanks, guys.

To be clear, it's not that she thinks the cat has it, she just wants to eliminate that first, bc if she has that, "nothing else matters". It's her standard procedure.

She said cats live into their 20's now bc of better nutrition and care, but mostly because they are eliminating felv. (Puting cats down who have it - and most vets are pretty clear if your cat has it, you can't let them have contact with another cat.)

A friend of mine has a cat with felv, and she was diagnosed with it years ago. She has dogs, but knows she can't have any more cats. (And I never pet her cat and still would go home and change clothes and wash my hands before getting near my cats! And I was only at her house one time about 5yrs or so ago! Lol )

I also don't agree with saying "if she has it, we won't treat her for anything else". I mean they'll do stuff to make her comfortable, but not treat any other issues that come up.

I think we'll go back one more time to this vet and I'll lay it out for her as far as what I want done. If she refuses, I'll go to another vet.

Thanks again for all your help and support!!
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2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
Seal - MO or Jojoba
DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
Yes it's the "nothing else matters" that is very troubling to me. It's just not true.
You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
They have had "indoor cat" vaccinations in the past, but every vet I've ever been to has said they aren't really necessary if they are indeed indoor cats. And mine are, so we haven't worried about it much. (Don't throw things at me.)
Originally Posted by Jas76
I won't throw things at you but you still should have your cats vaccinated for rabies and distemper. If you visit with other cats ever and then see your own they should have the distemper vaccine.

I don't agree with most of what your vet has said however I think he is right that if one cat is let out all three need to be vaccinated especially for rabies. If you start letting this one out GET ALL THREE CATS VACCINATED FOR RABIES. This is important even in supervised enclosures. For one I'd be willing to bet the cat escapes at least once in the first month, they're tricky little things. The reason this is so important if the cat goes out even if it doesn't interact with other cats is that it may find a mouse, squirrel, bunny or bird. These animals can give your cat rabies who can in turn give it to you and your children. The vaccine is less then 20 dollars and is good for a year, after that they can get ones that are good for more. My cat's last vaccine was 10 dollars and good for 3 years. My state (VA) has a loosely enforced law saying that your pet needs to be vaccinated which really mean that the vet has to give them the shot with out a "vet check up" and only charge you for the vaccine.
I am in desperate need of help. My cat won't stop peeing outside the box.

We have 3 cats. Two are 15, one is 12. They've all been together for 10yrs.

My 15yr old calico will not stop peeing on everything. We had to replace the carpet (with pergo) bc of her. (Though we were going to anyhow.). Now she pees on the rug at the bottom of the stairs, or upstairs on the carpet about 3 feet from her box.

We have 4 boxes and we scoop them nightly.

I have tried putting a plastic drop cloth down over the entire area she likes to go in, and she will just pee next to it.

She's been to the vet. She had a bladder infection, and they have her antibiotics. It cleared up fine but the peeing (on the carpets) is still non-stop.

The vet wants to run all these expensive tests before trying anything behavioral. (And I'm fairly sure this is behavioral.)

I'm so irritated. I've read they need outside time, so we thought about an outdoor enclosure - the vet said it wouldn't help, and we'd have to get all 3 of our cats fully "outdoor cat" vaccinated.

The vet said to NOT change the litter - we had thought about that Cat Attract litter, bc a friend recommended it and I'd read a lot about it. She said that would be a huge mistake.

So I'm at a loss. I love my cats, and I don't really believe in getting rid of a pet. But I have two young kids at home, and I don't want them covered in cat pee, I don't have time to constantly be cleaning up after this cat, and I don't want all our stuff ruined. Plus come July it's our busy season and we won't be home as much to find the problem in time to clean it up.

HELP!!!!
Originally Posted by Jas76
Is this a new habit of the cat, or has it been doing this since the beginning? I might be able to give better suggestions or ask more pointed questions if I know this.
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Hmmm, I agree with you Jas that some of what your vet is saying is quite different than what many other vets/books would say. I'm certainly not a vet, but I'm definitely a crazy cat mom and as soon as I got my cats four years ago, I bought every book out there on cat health and read them cover-to-cover! So I promise you I'm not just making up my advice!

I just don't see a reason why the kitty couldn't be tested for urinary-related issues (kidneys, etc), and for diabetes (this can cause excessive thirst and urination), which are relatively cheap tests, but as I said, I'm not a vet!

In terms of picking your kitty up and putting her in the box, I had to train one of my cats to use the box when she was young, and this is exactly what I did. She'd still be pooping on the floor today if I hadn't have done this! Is your kitty pooping in the box? Or not using it at all?

Maybe you could try getting a second opinion online? There are quite a few sites where you can ask a vet questions for free or for a small ($10-ish) fee. Explain everything that has happened just as you did here, and explain that you would like to try behavior modifications first. Don't mention what your vet said (cuz that might sway their response), and see what they have to say?

Finally, if you think she is stressing out about something, you could try getting a Feliway diffuser: FELIWAY - Official Site They are also available on Amazon and probably in some pet shops. Many people swear by these for reducing stress levels in cats.

I really hope things work out!
Originally Posted by Hootenanny
I was going to suggest Feliway too. Also are your boxes covered? Some cats absolutely hate them and the problem is instantly solved once you lose the covers.
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