Go Back   CurlTalk > Life > Non-hair discussion

Like Tree66Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-23-2013, 03:40 PM   #21
OBB
 
OBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,158
Default

hes releasing more information than i need to know
The New Black likes this.
OBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 09:12 PM   #22
 
Eilonwy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,126
Default

Quote:
Let him...at his own expense. I'd love to have a face lift and tummy tuck to look younger. OMG!!! I'm a 20 year old living in a 62 year old body. BUT I don't expect anyone else to pay for it.
You know, that's a really terrible thing to say. And I'm not singling out the person who wrote this, because they're not alone in this thread.

The reality of being transgender is widely recognized by medical professionals and researches (even in Iran!), not to mention people who are themselves transgender. While being transgender is not a mental illness, it can lead to gender dysphoria. The DSM 5 defines gender dysphoria as "Discomfort with one's assigned sex or gender role" that "causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other areas of functioning." This distress is often extremely severe, and is compounded by the intense bigotry and violence aimed at transgender people. For many people with gender dysphoria, using hormones and/or surgery to transition is the only available treatment. It is a legitimate medical need made necessary by a legitimate medical condition.

To dismiss being transgender as a frivolous cosmetic whim is, frankly, both bigoted and cruel. While bigotry is sometimes rooted in simple ignorance, there is also such thing as choosing to remain ignorant and refusing to learn or understand. Even if you don't have time to read the resources below, please accept that medical experts, and trans* people themselves, have verified that being transgender is real.

From the American Psychological Association's Policy Statement on Transgender, Gender Identity, & Gender Expression Non-Discrimination:

- APA supports the provision of adequate and necessary mental and medical health care treatment for transgender and gender variant individuals;
- APA recognizes the efficacy, benefit and medical necessity of gender transition treatments for appropriately evaluated individuals and calls upon public and private insurers to cover these medically necessary treatments;
- APA supports access to appropriate treatment in institutional settings for people of all gender identities and expressions; including access to appropriate health care services including gender transition therapies;

You can read the entire document here. It's fairly short.

Other resources:
APA, "Answers to Your Questions"
Transgender FAQ
A transwoman chronicles her transition at The Guardian.

(edited for minor formatting problems)

Last edited by Eilonwy; 08-23-2013 at 09:58 PM.
Eilonwy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 09:38 PM   #23
 
geeky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 10,191
Default

Thank you, Eilonwy.

I wanted to respond but I was frankly too pissed at all the callous responses to be as rational as you were.

Being transgender is a real thing, regardless of crimes that Manning has committed.

The lawyers are certainly using this for sympathy (as they should, they are lawyers, it is their job to get every possible for their client) but this is not something they just pulled out of their asses for sympathy.

If you have been following the case at all, manning mentioned gender identity issues going back as far a s 2009, before she was arrested.
__________________
To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
I pray none of you ever has to live in a communist state.

Geeky is my hero. She's the true badass. The badass who doesn't even need to be a badass. There aren't enough O's in cool to describe her.
geeky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 11:18 PM   #24
 
multicultcurly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,913
Default

I don't think anyone is denying being transgendered is a real thing. For me, I find it odd that if he truly felt this way, how come this is the first time we are hearing about it.

Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using CurlTalk App
__________________
3b/c, medium-coarse, low porosity, high density
HG: Jessicurl Too Shea and Kinky Curly Curling Custard
Shampoo: nonsulfate shampoo and Suave Naturals sulfate shampoo when needed
multicultcurly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 11:56 PM   #25
 
Ashleynicol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 314
Default

This is not a necessity... he will not die without treatment.
curlypearl likes this.
Ashleynicol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 01:56 AM   #26
 
Eilonwy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,126
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashleynicol View Post
This is not a necessity... he will not die without treatment.
"Medical necessity" is not defined by whether a condition is fatal. Many nonfatal conditions are debilitating without treatment and accommodation: vision problems, dental cavities, bones fractures, arthritis, quadriplegia... And that's just a drop in the bucket.

And, as I noted before, the experts and scientists at the APA agree that gender transition treatments are a medical necessity for many trans* people. Again,

  • Transgender and gender variant people may be at increased risk in institutional environments and facilities for harassment, physical and sexual assault and inadequate medical care including denial of gender transition treatments such as hormone therapy
  • APA supports the provision of adequate and necessary mental and medical health care treatment for transgender and gender variant individuals;
  • APA recognizes the efficacy, benefit and medical necessity of gender transition treatments for appropriately evaluated individuals and calls upon public and private insurers to cover these medically necessary treatments;
discolemonade and mollym like this.

Last edited by Eilonwy; 08-24-2013 at 02:12 AM.
Eilonwy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 02:07 AM   #27
 
Eilonwy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,126
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by multicultcurly View Post
I don't think anyone is denying being transgendered is a real thing. For me, I find it odd that if he truly felt this way, how come this is the first time we are hearing about it.
People are referring to Manning as "he," mocking the concept of having the wrong body, and dismissing the medical necessity of hormone therapy and surgery for many trans* people. I think if someone does those things, then they don't fully accept or understand the reality of being transgender.

And like geeky said, this isn't the first time Manning has mentioned she's transgender. It's just the first time the news media are widely publicizing it.
discolemonade and mollym like this.

Last edited by Eilonwy; 08-24-2013 at 02:10 AM.
Eilonwy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 03:51 AM   #28
OBB
 
OBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,158
Default

i was told by a gay friend that until the transformation the transgender is to be addressed as "he" or however that person wants to be addressed. but that was 20 years ago. i dont think we are mocking her by refering to her as a "he." i plead my ignorance on this topic. as for my comment about too much info i was speaking of the timing of the announcement. i didnt think with all the controversy over her trial and conviction it was the time to put out that info. i didnt realize Manning had put out the information previously. for me personally if i was going through this i would keep this a personal issue and as private as possible. but thats just me. being labeled a traitor is bad enough but also a transgender it will make her life unbearable. maybe her lawyer's motive is to avoid the male prison?

Last edited by OBB; 08-24-2013 at 04:21 AM.
OBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 06:01 AM   #29
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,547
Default

Death row inmates in Mississippi don't have air conditioning. Is that a necessity?
Myradella3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 07:26 AM   #30
 
multicultcurly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,913
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by multicultcurly View Post
I don't think anyone is denying being transgendered is a real thing. For me, I find it odd that if he truly felt this way, how come this is the first time we are hearing about it.
People are referring to Manning as "he," mocking the concept of having the wrong body, and dismissing the medical necessity of hormone therapy and surgery for many trans* people. I think if someone does those things, then they don't fully accept or understand the reality of being transgender.

And like geeky said, this isn't the first time Manning has mentioned she's transgender. It's just the first time the news media are widely publicizing it.
This is the first time I have heard of him being transgendered. If he were already living like a woman before, which IMO it doesn't seem to be, then I agree he shouldn't be in the general population because he will probably be raped and/or killed.

However, in American society, prisoners become nobody and are treated like animals. I find this sickening, especially for the inmates who will eventually rejoin society. They should have rights. After completing their sentence, they should regain their rights to vote and employment.

The rampant ability to rape and hurt others shouldn't be so easy. And prisoners should receive medical attention. However, I don't agree Manning should have taxpayers foot the bill for his/her surgery. If he had already started, then that would be different. But then, I find it a little unbelievable that he was already living as a woman. If he had been, then I would be more sympathetic.

Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using CurlTalk App
__________________
3b/c, medium-coarse, low porosity, high density
HG: Jessicurl Too Shea and Kinky Curly Curling Custard
Shampoo: nonsulfate shampoo and Suave Naturals sulfate shampoo when needed
multicultcurly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 10:21 AM   #31
 
The New Black's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,686
Default

If you have a potentially debilitating condition that requires treatment (not that I agree this is one) then don't commit a crime and jeopardize your access to care.
curlypearl likes this.
__________________
No MAS.

I am the new Black.

"Hope the Mail are saving space tomorrow for Samantha Brick's reaction piece on the reactions to her piece about the reactions to her piece." ~ Tweet reposted by Rou.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Kimshi4242

http://www.tumblr.com/blog/kimshi4242
The New Black is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 11:11 AM   #32
 
FieryCurls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,423
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by multicultcurly View Post
I don't think anyone is denying being transgendered is a real thing. For me, I find it odd that if he truly felt this way, how come this is the first time we are hearing about it.
People are referring to Manning as "he," mocking the concept of having the wrong body, and dismissing the medical necessity of hormone therapy and surgery for many trans* people. I think if someone does those things, then they don't fully accept or understand the reality of being transgender.

And like geeky said, this isn't the first time Manning has mentioned she's transgender. It's just the first time the news media are widely publicizing it.
I honestly wasn't meaning to be derogatory by saying "he", so I apologize. However, my statement still stands. She wasn't (or a tiny tiny possibility) going to be getting HRT while in the Army, so I don't know what makes her think she'll get it going to prison.
__________________


FieryCurls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 11:37 AM   #33
 
Ashleynicol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 314
Default

Male:
*an individual that produces small usually motile gametes (as spermatozoa or spermatozoids) which fertilize the eggs of a female.



1.*a person bearing an*Xand*Ychromosome pair in the cell nuclei and normally having a penis, scrotum, and testicles and developing hair on the face at adolescence; a boy or man.2.*an organism of the sex or sexual phase that normally produces a sperm cell or male gamete.


That's messed up that we have to apolagize for calling a male a male. Does this person have an X and Y chromosome? Does he his body create spermatozoa that have the ability to fertilizer the eggs of a female?




Female

a.*Of or denoting the sex that produces ova or bears young.

1.*a person of the sex whose cell nuclei contain twoXchromosomes and who is normally able to conceive and bear young; a girl or woman.2.*any organism of the sex or sexual phase that normally produces egg cells.

Does this person produce ova or bear young? Do they have two x chromosomes or an x and a y chromosome?

I am not making judgements here. People can dress how they want they can have relationships with whoever they want. They can have hormone treatments and surgery if they want to look like the opposite sex... but genetically and biologically you are what you are.

And I don't think my tax money should be used for that.

Last edited by Ashleynicol; 08-24-2013 at 12:14 PM.
Ashleynicol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 12:07 PM   #34
 
geeky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 10,191
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashleynicol View Post

I am not making judgements here. People can dress how they want they can have relationships with whoever they want. They can have hormone treatments and surgery if they want to look like the opposite sex... but genetically and biologically you are what you are.
Of course some people genetically and biologically don't fit into the male/female binary. Some people are born with something other than XX or XY, or their genitals don't match their chromosomes.

You also might want to look at the definitions of sex vs gender identity
__________________
To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
I pray none of you ever has to live in a communist state.

Geeky is my hero. She's the true badass. The badass who doesn't even need to be a badass. There aren't enough O's in cool to describe her.
geeky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 12:22 PM   #35
 
geeky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 10,191
Default

Also, I don't recall her asking for surgery. Trans people don't automatically and necessarily get surgery. My impression was that a lot of people nowadays are opting not to get genital reconstruction surgery because it is expensive, complex, and the results are not always that great.
Eilonwy, discolemonade and mollym like this.
__________________
To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
I pray none of you ever has to live in a communist state.

Geeky is my hero. She's the true badass. The badass who doesn't even need to be a badass. There aren't enough O's in cool to describe her.
geeky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 12:49 PM   #36
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 6,825
Default

The media was really slimy on presenting this issue. I just read that this was a major part of the defense so I am baffled by the fact that I didn't know about this until now (having followed the story in MSM). Its like the media decided to withhold this part of the story until they could whip out the headline "Not only is he a TRAITOR but he's a FREAK too!!!".

Whether or not she gets gets HRT I hope is a medical decision and not decided by public poll.

Unless I'm mistaken I did hear that a 35 year sentence will likely translate into 7 years in jail.
Eilonwy, mollym and dusalocks like this.
__________________


mad scientist is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 01:45 PM   #37
 
Eilonwy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,126
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashleynicol View Post
That's messed up that we have to apolagize for calling a male a male. Does this person have an X and Y chromosome? Does he his body create spermatozoa that have the ability to fertilizer the eggs of a female?

I am not making judgements here. People can dress how they want they can have relationships with whoever they want. They can have hormone treatments and surgery if they want to look like the opposite sex... but genetically and biologically you are what you are.

And I don't think my tax money should be used for that.
What you posted is indeed what most people are taught in school. However, it's only a very basic rule of thumb that's highly simplified to the point of inaccuracy. Scientists have long understood that there is way, way, waaay more to sex/gender than XX or XY, or what someone's genitals look like. For example, fetal exposure to sex hormones is known to play a major role in sexual development, and current research suggests that it plays a role in whether people are trans*. As with most genetic traits, multiple chromosomes are involved in sexual development, along with epigenetic factors (conditions that affect DNA expression).

Many, many people have intersex genitalia, or three or more sex chromosomes. Some people are XY but develop as female because they're insensitive to male hormones. So are these people "wrong," or is the simplified XX/XY definition wrong?

Furthermore, countless societies throughout the world have (or had) three or more genders. Having two genders is no less arbitrary than having three or four. The concept of an XX/XY sexual dichotomy only sounds natural to us because it happens to match our culture's gender binary.

And, as I've shown, people who are experts in this subject consider transgender to be a real thing, and medical transitioning to be a medical need.
discolemonade likes this.

Last edited by Eilonwy; 08-24-2013 at 01:49 PM.
Eilonwy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 01:56 PM   #38
 
Eilonwy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,126
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeky View Post
Also, I don't recall her asking for surgery. Trans people don't automatically and necessarily get surgery. My impression was that a lot of people nowadays are opting not to get genital reconstruction surgery because it is expensive, complex, and the results are not always that great.
Yes, there's a spectrum of transgender. Some people need to transition with surgery and hormones, while others are satisfied with, say, dressing androgynously.
Eilonwy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 04:20 PM   #39
 
Ashleynicol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeky View Post
Of course some people genetically and biologically don't fit into the male/female binary. Some people are born with something other than XX or XY, or their genitals don't match their chromosomes.

You also might want to look at the definitions of sex vs gender identity
htt http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/001669.htm

Did this person have any of those? Did they have any intersexual disorders causing ambiguous genitalia or secondary sexual characteristics that don't match their chromosomes? Or extra chromosomes? I'm going to guess not.
Ashleynicol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 04:39 PM   #40
 
annabananalise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,791
Default

Idk if you can read, boo, but gender and sex are different things. And people identify with a different gender than what is attributed to their biological sex. And that's recognized in the medical community.
mollym likes this.
__________________
Last relaxer: 8.4.10
BC: 9.6.11

when will your favs?

annabananalise is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Trending Topics[-]hide

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2011 NaturallyCurly.com