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Old 08-25-2013, 05:10 PM   #21
 
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A sense if self worth and independence! My husband and I tell my teenage daughter all the time "go to college, be independent, know yourself, then go do something stupid like fall in love and have children" I know people with middle aged children who still come running to their parents for a bail out. I think education is important but I make sure to let her know she isn't entitled to anything in this world! You have to work hard to get what you want. Giving your child the tools to be an independent and productive part of society is so important!
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Old 08-25-2013, 07:38 PM   #22
 
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Education and high self-esteem.

Being smart and hardworking means nothing if you don't believe in yourself and your abilities to accomplish your goals.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:50 AM   #23
 
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I think...self-respect, a strong ethical/value system, social skills, and positive, healthy adult role models.

Then, after that, I think I'd add things like education, life planning and goal setting skills, and so on.
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:15 AM   #24
 
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I never said a child should get all A's in school. A lot of great people didn't necessarily have all A's, but most of them did stay in school and got the most out of their education. I have been watching Breaking Amish and realize with their 8th grade educations they have a hard time making it outside of their community. We had a community garage sale a week ago. We have a fairly large Amish community in our area. Some of the them could not even count out their money (and this was on items adding up to around $5). I see people in other countries who are deprived from having educations only to be brain washed by their leaders. An education is the only way we as a nation and as people can go forward.

I do want to say hand in hand with this you need to support your child with love, confidence, and self esteem.
Wow, I would have though Amish ppl would be better at that than nonAmish bc they would have relied on electronic cash registers and calulators a lot less.
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Old 08-26-2013, 02:56 PM   #25
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your time
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:00 PM   #26
 
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your time
I love this. So very true
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:09 AM   #27
 
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your time
Just playing devil's advocate here but what if you were kind of a crappy person? Would all the time spent be more harmful or more beneficial? Would some children be better off for not having spent time with or even known a bad parent?
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Old 08-27-2013, 10:04 PM   #28
 
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Do bad parents go out if their way to spend lots of time with their children? None that I know do.
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Old 08-28-2013, 09:40 AM   #29
 
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I agree with teaching children responsibility and accountability for their choices. I read this column today that really speaks to this issue: Opinion: Negligent parents, lawbreaking kids - CNN.com
No children here, but I am always interested in these topics. I like to do a great deal of side reading on different child rearing movements and methods being used in schools and home throughout the years.

I completely agree with discipline, responsibility and accountability being major things to teach your children, and also being sincerely lacking in todays society.

While I understand the importance of confidence and self esteem, I have to say I loathe the self esteem movement. My generation (X, aka the latch key kid generation) was studied and seen as children who lacked self esteem and needed help. The self esteem movement was slowly and slightly introduced to the end of my generation (my part) and those younger than me were absolutely hammered with it. Even the major promoters (social psychologists and self proclaimed child experts) of this movement (experiment), who once sang it's praises from the roof top, are now back tracking and apologizing for the lack of research and thought. Too much emphasis has been put on the child's self esteem and too little on their actual performance, ability and character. It has actually created many young adults who have a very poor, and false, sense of self esteem and confidence and some unrealistic expectations in the world. There has to be a real balance there or it all fails miserably.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:04 AM   #30
 
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I agree with teaching children responsibility and accountability for their choices. I read this column today that really speaks to this issue: Opinion: Negligent parents, lawbreaking kids - CNN.com
While I understand the importance of confidence and self esteem, I have to say I loathe the self esteem movement. My generation (X, aka the latch key kid generation) was studied and seen as children who lacked self esteem and needed help. The self esteem movement was slowly and slightly introduced to the end of my generation (my part) and those younger than me were absolutely hammered with it. Even the major promoters (social psychologists and self proclaimed child experts) of this movement (experiment), who once sang it's praises from the roof top, are now back tracking and apologizing for the lack of research and thought. Too much emphasis has been put on the child's self esteem and too little on their actual performance, ability and character.
Just to further a bit more... It really is a strange and heavy handed approach in schools. Several children come out of the gate with a pretty healthy sense of self esteem and confidence. Several have parents who do a pretty good job on their own. Instilling more and more can take it to an absurd and delusional level. Then there are some who have none and need help. It's not one size fits all. It's one of those things that I think people can help a child build, but only by honest feed back. Really, everyone has their ups and knock down with it. That's life and that's natural, and not all can be taught by someone else. You need moments where you don't feel as confident or sure so you can work harder and do better.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:06 AM   #31
 
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Do bad parents go out if their way to spend lots of time with their children? None that I know do.
Yes, definitely. Bad doesn't necessarily mean absentee or neglectful.

There are plenty of very devoted parents, even stay at home parents, who just aren't of good character or who aren't good w/ kids or who have issues.

A good friend of mine was raised by a single mother who had/has mild schizophrenia and had been abused as a child...so she continued the cycle of abuse. The mother loved her kids but wasn't able to care for them properly IMO. (Not saying my friend's mother was "kind of a crappy person:" she was sick. But there are plenty of other ppl who spend time w/ their kids who just aren't the greatest ppl -- involved in crime, overly critical, dirty, high strung, immature, whatever.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:33 AM   #32
 
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Do bad parents go out if their way to spend lots of time with their children? None that I know do.
I think that many of the parents aren't necessarily aware they are being "bad". Perhaps they are letting the kid skip school and hang out with them at the house (because "school didn't work for them"; "people made me go to school and I hated them for it"; "i'll never make my kid do x"). So very many of the parents I deal with (discipline for students in a large school system) weren't instilled with values like integrity, self-discipline, manners, compassion - it's like our society has skipped that step, so now our parents (who weren't "parented") are raising kids. They don't know any better (or, they have such a hatred for "the man" that they are bucking they system wherever they can).

I'm also aware that there is a continuum of "good parenting" and not everyone agrees on what that looks like.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:36 AM   #33
 
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Originally Posted by Fifi.G View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarah42 View Post
I agree with teaching children responsibility and accountability for their choices. I read this column today that really speaks to this issue: Opinion: Negligent parents, lawbreaking kids - CNN.com
No children here, but I am always interested in these topics. I like to do a great deal of side reading on different child rearing movements and methods being used in schools and home throughout the years.

I completely agree with discipline, responsibility and accountability being major things to teach your children, and also being sincerely lacking in todays society.

While I understand the importance of confidence and self esteem, I have to say I loathe the self esteem movement. My generation (X, aka the latch key kid generation) was studied and seen as children who lacked self esteem and needed help. The self esteem movement was slowly and slightly introduced to the end of my generation (my part) and those younger than me were absolutely hammered with it. Even the major promoters (social psychologists and self proclaimed child experts) of this movement (experiment), who once sang it's praises from the roof top, are now back tracking and apologizing for the lack of research and thought. Too much emphasis has been put on the child's self esteem and too little on their actual performance, ability and character. It has actually created many young adults who have a very poor, and false, sense of self esteem and confidence and some unrealistic expectations in the world. There has to be a real balance there or it all fails miserably.
I think the over-emphasis on their self esteem has led to a generation (or more) of people who feel "owed" something by our society. Because they weren't taught that you make mistakes, you fall down, you lose, sometimes you aren't number 1 - they were essentially catered to - they don't know how to function at all in the "real world".

I think I just echoed what you said ...
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:59 AM   #34
 
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Originally Posted by PerriP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fifi.G View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarah42 View Post
I agree with teaching children responsibility and accountability for their choices. I read this column today that really speaks to this issue: Opinion: Negligent parents, lawbreaking kids - CNN.com
No children here, but I am always interested in these topics. I like to do a great deal of side reading on different child rearing movements and methods being used in schools and home throughout the years.

I completely agree with discipline, responsibility and accountability being major things to teach your children, and also being sincerely lacking in todays society.

While I understand the importance of confidence and self esteem, I have to say I loathe the self esteem movement. My generation (X, aka the latch key kid generation) was studied and seen as children who lacked self esteem and needed help. The self esteem movement was slowly and slightly introduced to the end of my generation (my part) and those younger than me were absolutely hammered with it. Even the major promoters (social psychologists and self proclaimed child experts) of this movement (experiment), who once sang it's praises from the roof top, are now back tracking and apologizing for the lack of research and thought. Too much emphasis has been put on the child's self esteem and too little on their actual performance, ability and character. It has actually created many young adults who have a very poor, and false, sense of self esteem and confidence and some unrealistic expectations in the world. There has to be a real balance there or it all fails miserably.
I think the over-emphasis on their self esteem has led to a generation (or more) of people who feel "owed" something by our society. Because they weren't taught that you make mistakes, you fall down, you lose, sometimes you aren't number 1 - they were essentially catered to - they don't know how to function at all in the "real world".

I think I just echoed what you said ...


Wow this is great and so true! There does seem to be a huge entitlement issue in the upcoming generation... everyone's always a winner and nobody loses. They expect things to be handed to them and don't want to work for it.
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:43 AM   #35
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerriP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fifi.G View Post

No children here, but I am always interested in these topics. I like to do a great deal of side reading on different child rearing movements and methods being used in schools and home throughout the years.

I completely agree with discipline, responsibility and accountability being major things to teach your children, and also being sincerely lacking in todays society.

While I understand the importance of confidence and self esteem, I have to say I loathe the self esteem movement. My generation (X, aka the latch key kid generation) was studied and seen as children who lacked self esteem and needed help. The self esteem movement was slowly and slightly introduced to the end of my generation (my part) and those younger than me were absolutely hammered with it. Even the major promoters (social psychologists and self proclaimed child experts) of this movement (experiment), who once sang it's praises from the roof top, are now back tracking and apologizing for the lack of research and thought. Too much emphasis has been put on the child's self esteem and too little on their actual performance, ability and character. It has actually created many young adults who have a very poor, and false, sense of self esteem and confidence and some unrealistic expectations in the world. There has to be a real balance there or it all fails miserably.
I think the over-emphasis on their self esteem has led to a generation (or more) of people who feel "owed" something by our society. Because they weren't taught that you make mistakes, you fall down, you lose, sometimes you aren't number 1 - they were essentially catered to - they don't know how to function at all in the "real world".

I think I just echoed what you said ...


Wow this is great and so true! There does seem to be a huge entitlement issue in the upcoming generation... everyone's always a winner and nobody loses. They expect things to be handed to them and don't want to work for it.
Unfortunately, this is the way that many at the end of Gen X and beginning of Gen Y were raised or taught in school or other activities. So this would be most of the people in their 30s and 20s.

I think the mentality of being owed something and lack of discipline are being passed on to the next generation, which are being raised by Gens X and Y.

I am not saying everyone from these generations are like that. I am at the very beginning of Gen Y and don't feel this applies to me, but I know of the cultural shift that Fifi mentioned since I witnessed it. I do think that depending on your patents and personality, these cultural shifts can have a huge impact on a person.

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Old 08-29-2013, 08:16 AM   #36
 
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I guess I should have said "a healthy self esteem." Didn't mean an obnoxious, entitled one. LOL
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:23 AM   #37
 
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Self esteem =/= entitled arrogance so I got your point spider.

But ya these lazy students with degrees who want entry level jobs just want it all amirite?! They should have thought twice before taking out loans ya know. Bootstraps, back in my day, selfie generation, trickle down economics, etc.
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:24 AM   #38
 
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I think part of having a healthy self esteem is to actually experience loss, disappointment, failure, etc. and know you can work through it and learn from it. The movement to raise kids' self-esteem was based (IMHO) on coddling and making sure they never experienced disappointment, there were no losers, everyone is a winner! - which I don't think really is "self esteem"
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:38 AM   #39
 
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I think part of having a healthy self esteem is to actually experience loss, disappointment, failure, etc. and know you can work through it and learn from it. The movement to raise kids' self-esteem was based (IMHO) on coddling and making sure they never experienced disappointment, there were no losers, everyone is a winner! - which I don't think really is "self esteem"
A lot of ppl I am friends w/ now came from single parent homes where the parent was too busy working to really put in a lot of quality time, grew up poor and always had to do without, grew up in very toxic environments or were even abandoned by their parents and had to be raised by grandparents or others for some amount of time. A lot never even met their fathers or only met them a few times or in adulthood. And a few were sexually abused. And those who are African American struggled w/ issues of colorism and racism. As a result of these things, I've noticed some self esteem issues...thinking that they weren't worthwhile.

I've even heard friends of mine, when talking to me, say things like, "well, I'm not in YOUR league, spider, but I'm pretty happy w/ how far I've come." And then they catch themselves and say, "no wait a minute, hell, I AM in your league."

That's kind of what i'm talking about. No kid should grow up thinking in terms of "leagues" of ppl and deciding they aren't in a good one.

Stuff like that, where ppl feel inferior or like they aren't ever supposed to be successful.

Of course, I have seen the pendulum swing the other way. Often it's with women who had been conditioned in childhood to feel they were ugly, now obnoxiously proclaiming to everyone how beautiful they are and how they are "princesses" and "royalty." It's a pretty transparent coping mechanism but it still is very obnoxious IMO.

Or they try to grasp superficially at success by buying a lot of expensive clothes or whatever.
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:49 AM   #40
 
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That's kind of what i'm talking about. No kid should grow up thinking in terms of "leagues" of ppl and deciding they aren't in a good one.

Stuff like that, where ppl feel inferior or like they aren't ever supposed to be successful.
.
I agree with this, and honestly don't know you teach this - other than being remarkably well-adjusted as parents (and I think that's not even close to the norm).

I think that as a society we tried to overcompensate for that, which is how we ended up with this very entitled generation(s) - I don't know how to unring the bell, either, because those kids will raise their kids as they were taught (or at least a large majority of them will)
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