Say It. I Dare You.

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I give her 3000 idol points for using the term "thought police". It's one of my personal favorites.

"I recall that during my freshman year of college at the University of Kentucky in the mid-90s the administration enacted a language code. This code was to be used by the students as a way to communicate in and out of the classroom. The code was intended to help instill sensitivity in the student body and encourage them to refer to ethnic and social groups in a politically correct manner. I wrote a paper about this language code for one of my classes and I think the term "thought police" was used. I was never a big fan of political correctness. While the intention is good (giving people a neutral, non-hostile, set of words and phrases to use when referring to groups of people) I think it instead creates confusion and frustration which in turn increases hostility.

How many times have you heard someone say "Indian" and then correct themselves in a hostile tone, "Oh right, now they want us to call them Native Americans." Would it surprise you to know that most of the Indians that I know do not like the term Native American? So who comes up with these terms and why?"

http://www.allthingscherokee.com/art...ts_070101.html

(I'm guessing it was a specific type of person, out to change the world for the better, regardless of what other people thought)
When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

At my parents and they had a dinner party last night. We were up till about 3 drinking. Would it be in terrible taste to go down and ask the cleaning lady to try and be a little quieter?
Originally Posted by CurlyCanadian

better yet how about giving her the day off for x-mas. win-win
Originally Posted by OBB
Monday was her last day, she's off for the week

I went down to start setting the table for Christmas dinner and she went at me about the mess left from the party the night before. I gave her Baileys for her coffee, some home made cookies and brought the vacuum upstairs for her and we're friends again
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Oh for the love of all things PC. It's not an American,
Native American License Plate. It's an American Indian tag. You can say Indian. It's not a bad word. It's a rather good one. The Native American PC push did not come from this area. You can relax. You better, because you're going to see and hear it.
Originally Posted by Fifi.G
But it's so inaccurate...and colonial!
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
Not where I live. People address themselves as Cherokee Indians or simply Indian or simply Cherokee. You "Go Native". (you'd have to live here to get the reference). Numerous business on tribal land contain "Indian" in the name. It is what the majority use and prefer.
Originally Posted by Fifi.G
OK, but where I live some African Americans call themselves n!gga$. That doesn't mean it's accurate or empowering.

India is it's own separate country (which I know you know)...so why not let ppl who are actually from India enjoy that title and the first, true Americans enjoy being called Americans?

And the license plates used in this area are American Indian or AI tags. It's part of the American Indian movement, though it never went any where in Western NC.

So literally not American Native American license plates. I can't run ANA tag's. They do not exist.
Originally Posted by Fifi.G
OK this part I can't comment on...no idea about any of this. I didn't realize Native American ppl can have different tags??
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One year I am actually going to be able to sleep, but not today. Not on Christmas Eve! Way too much crap to do.
When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??


But it's so inaccurate...and colonial!
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
Not where I live. People address themselves as Cherokee Indians or simply Indian or simply Cherokee. You "Go Native". (you'd have to live here to get the reference). Numerous business on tribal land contain "Indian" in the name. It is what the majority use and prefer.
Originally Posted by Fifi.G
OK, but where I live some African Americans call themselves n!gga$. That doesn't mean it's accurate or empowering.

India is it's own separate country (which I know you know)...so why not let ppl who are actually from India enjoy that title and the first, true Americans enjoy being called Americans?

And the license plates used in this area are American Indian or AI tags. It's part of the American Indian movement, though it never went any where in Western NC.

So literally not American Native American license plates. I can't run ANA tag's. They do not exist.
Originally Posted by Fifi.G
OK this part I can't comment on...no idea about any of this. I didn't realize Native American ppl can have different tags??
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
I would like you to set foot on Tribal land and say what you said in the first statement. See what happens. The word Indian is seen as empowering, not derogatory. Not as a slur, and American identity is not in question. Did you read the All Things Cherokee blog I posted? That pretty much so covers the sentiment of many. Hell, I call people by their name, but when discussing the tribe as a separate thing, it is (for me) The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians, or Cherokees or Cherokee Nation.

Yes they can have their own tags, and again it is part of the American Indian Movement. Almost every tribe has their own license plate. They are specialty plates. There are firefighter license plates, veterans license plates, so of course there would be tribal license plates.
When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??


Last edited by Fifi.G; 12-24-2013 at 11:32 AM.

Not where I live. People address themselves as Cherokee Indians or simply Indian or simply Cherokee. You "Go Native". (you'd have to live here to get the reference). Numerous business on tribal land contain "Indian" in the name. It is what the majority use and prefer.
Originally Posted by Fifi.G
OK, but where I live some African Americans call themselves n!gga$. That doesn't mean it's accurate or empowering.

India is it's own separate country (which I know you know)...so why not let ppl who are actually from India enjoy that title and the first, true Americans enjoy being called Americans?

And the license plates used in this area are American Indian or AI tags. It's part of the American Indian movement, though it never went any where in Western NC.

So literally not American Native American license plates. I can't run ANA tag's. They do not exist.
Originally Posted by Fifi.G
OK this part I can't comment on...no idea about any of this. I didn't realize Native American ppl can have different tags??
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
I would like you to set foot on Tribal land and say what you said in the first statement. See what happens. The word Indian is seen as empowering, not derogatory. Not as a slur, and American identity is not in question. Did you read the All Things Cherokee blog I posted? That pretty much so covers the sentiment of many. Hell, I call people by their name, but when discussing the tribe as a separate thing, it is (for me) The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians, or Cherokees or Cherokee Nation.

Yes they can have their own tags, and again it is part of the American Indian Movement. Almost every tribe has their own license plate. They are specialty plates. There are firefighter license plates, veterans license plates, so of course there would be tribal license plates.
Originally Posted by Fifi.G
But either way, it's not accurate. This isn't India. And just bc ppl have internalized their oppression doesn't mean it's wrong if other ppl don't want to perpetuate it. But I have to plead ignorance to the licence plate issue.

But you mean, they just have a different design? Not a different system/set of numbers?
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DH and I shouldn't have to invite my MIL (his mom) to my family's get togethers just because she has no one else here to do anything with. I can't help her oldest son and DIL live in OH and didn't invite her up or come down or that the rest of her family lives in CO. We're already getting together with her and FIL by themselves, why should we have to take them to my family's get together too?
Looking to go out tonight (going to parents tomorrow since some pple are coming over - we don't celebrate xmas) and I know I've been out in this city on Christmas eve and stuff was open and the only thing I've heard of so far today is a jewish bagel party that will be $40 at the door?! Are you ****ing kidding me??! Apparently my cousin, brother and some of his friends might just end up there.

And it is freezing cold today. It was in the 70s last Saturday NIGHT and it's only 2pm and it's like 30!! If it's this cold now, I can only imagine how bad it will be later. I wish I was in Florida .

I'm been feeling really blue . I keep thinking about the ex and wondering what he's doing. I was with him and his kids in Key Largo last year for Christmas and this year I'm at work and by msyelf. I hope alcohol and people help tonight. I have a friend that's supposed to come over, I hope she doesn't bail. Or else I'm going to end up hanging out with kids a lot younger than me(aka my brother, cousin and $40 on just for a bagel buffet).
I give her 3000 idol points for using the term "thought police". It's one of my personal favorites.

"I recall that during my freshman year of college at the University of Kentucky in the mid-90s the administration enacted a language code. This code was to be used by the students as a way to communicate in and out of the classroom. The code was intended to help instill sensitivity in the student body and encourage them to refer to ethnic and social groups in a politically correct manner. I wrote a paper about this language code for one of my classes and I think the term "thought police" was used. I was never a big fan of political correctness. While the intention is good (giving people a neutral, non-hostile, set of words and phrases to use when referring to groups of people) I think it instead creates confusion and frustration which in turn increases hostility.

How many times have you heard someone say "Indian" and then correct themselves in a hostile tone, "Oh right, now they want us to call them Native Americans." Would it surprise you to know that most of the Indians that I know do not like the term Native American? So who comes up with these terms and why?"

All Things Cherokee: Culture Articles - What's in a Name? Indians and Political Correctness

(I'm guessing it was a specific type of person, out to change the world for the better, regardless of what other people thought)
Originally Posted by Fifi.G

sorry Fifi, (I'm not referring to you directly, but the people you are referring to) but if taking a little bit of time to be considerate of the others is too frustrating for you, well I vote we move all those people to their own island. Chances are the hostility was already there. That is no excuse.

As for the terms, now that's a different conversation.

Last edited by scrills; 12-24-2013 at 01:14 PM.
I started Christmas shopping for next year

I just called NINJA!!!!! and she screened my call. so sad

OK, but where I live some African Americans call themselves n!gga$. That doesn't mean it's accurate or empowering.

India is it's own separate country (which I know you know)...so why not let ppl who are actually from India enjoy that title and the first, true Americans enjoy being called Americans?



OK this part I can't comment on...no idea about any of this. I didn't realize Native American ppl can have different tags??
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
I would like you to set foot on Tribal land and say what you said in the first statement. See what happens. The word Indian is seen as empowering, not derogatory. Not as a slur, and American identity is not in question. Did you read the All Things Cherokee blog I posted? That pretty much so covers the sentiment of many. Hell, I call people by their name, but when discussing the tribe as a separate thing, it is (for me) The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians, or Cherokees or Cherokee Nation.

Yes they can have their own tags, and again it is part of the American Indian Movement. Almost every tribe has their own license plate. They are specialty plates. There are firefighter license plates, veterans license plates, so of course there would be tribal license plates.
Originally Posted by Fifi.G
But either way, it's not accurate. This isn't India. And just bc ppl have internalized their oppression doesn't mean it's wrong if other ppl don't want to perpetuate it. But I have to plead ignorance to the licence plate issue.

But you mean, they just have a different design? Not a different system/set of numbers?
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
I was talking about license plates when I made my comment, based on a call I received at work. ETA: The plates are different in several areas. The ones for EBOCI have an AI (for American Indian) prefix and then a set of numbers. They also have a dream catcher design on them.

People can say Native American if they want, but the majority are not "Native Americans". The whole point of the wording on specific license plate here is to use the term American Indian.

Just as you do not feel it is wrong to use Native American (which I have said myself), others feel there is nothing wrong with continuing to use the word Indian. It is a matter of preference, and it is a matter of culture. If they do not feel oppressed under the term, but in fact feel pride, should you feel oppressed for them? Should you tell them it is wrong? Should you tell me I am wrong for using the terminology preferred by the Cherokee/"Native Americans" (which really implies anyone born in America) in my area?
When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??


Last edited by Fifi.G; 12-24-2013 at 01:31 PM.
^^ as SL mentioned earlier, just because someone uses oppressive terms for themselves, that doesn't make it right.

and people are always saying something to black people about the terms we use, so....
^ I don't. It's something I myself would not use but I can't really comment on what a black person can or can not feel comfortable saying.

My best friend, who is gay, has no problems with terms that others find offensive. He sees "Queer" as more offensive than the F bomb, but queer is seen as more socially acceptable. He has his reasons.

Petition the American Indian movement if you feel so strongly about it.
When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

I give her 3000 idol points for using the term "thought police". It's one of my personal favorites.

"I recall that during my freshman year of college at the University of Kentucky in the mid-90s the administration enacted a language code. This code was to be used by the students as a way to communicate in and out of the classroom. The code was intended to help instill sensitivity in the student body and encourage them to refer to ethnic and social groups in a politically correct manner. I wrote a paper about this language code for one of my classes and I think the term "thought police" was used. I was never a big fan of political correctness. While the intention is good (giving people a neutral, non-hostile, set of words and phrases to use when referring to groups of people) I think it instead creates confusion and frustration which in turn increases hostility.

How many times have you heard someone say "Indian" and then correct themselves in a hostile tone, "Oh right, now they want us to call them Native Americans." Would it surprise you to know that most of the Indians that I know do not like the term Native American? So who comes up with these terms and why?"

All Things Cherokee: Culture Articles - What's in a Name? Indians and Political Correctness

(I'm guessing it was a specific type of person, out to change the world for the better, regardless of what other people thought)
Originally Posted by Fifi.G

sorry Fifi, (I'm not referring to you directly, but the people you are referring to) but if taking a little bit of time to be considerate of the others is too frustrating for you, well I vote we move all those people to their own island. Chances are the hostility was already there. That is no excuse.

As for the terms, now that's a different conversation.
Originally Posted by scrills
I was thinking about how it must have felt for a person sitting in a class, who identifies as proud Cherokee Indian, being told that Indian is no longer acceptable and the term Native American should be used when I said that.
When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

I started Christmas shopping for next year

I just called NINJA!!!!! and she screened my call. so sad
Originally Posted by scrills
One time I'm on another line and this is what I get.
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I'm pretty sure that person identifies as being a proud Cherokee, not Cherokee indian
I started Christmas shopping for next year

I just called NINJA!!!!! and she screened my call. so sad
Originally Posted by scrills

I was hoping to start 2014 all fresh and new, ready for a new beginning. The year of CAILIN!!!! I would call it....now I'm starting it with an inferiority complex. Thanks, scrills.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrills View Post
I'm pretty sure that person identifies as being a proud Cherokee, not Cherokee indian
Is that what you took from Christina Berry, a Cherokee Woman's, piece?

"Ironically, Indians, or American Indians (whichever you prefer), did not seem interested in changing their name. AIM, the American Indian Movement, did not begin calling itself NAM. The American Indian College Fund did not change its name. Many Indians continue to call themselves Indian or American Indian regardless of what the rest of America and the world calls them. Why?

The reasons are diverse and personal, but there are two popular reasons. The first reason is habit. Many Indians have been Indians all their lives. The Native people of this continent have been called Indian throughout all of post-Columbian history. Why change now? The second reason is far more political. While the new politically correct terms were intended to help ethnic groups by giving them a name that did not carry the emotional baggage of American history, it also enabled America to ease its conscience. The term Native American is so recent that it does not have all the negative history attached. Native Americans did not suffer through countless trails of tears, disease, wars, and cultural annihilation -- Indians did. The Native people today are Native Americans not Indians, therefore we do not need to feel guilty for the horrors of the past. Many Indians feel that this is what the term Native American essentially does -- it white-washes history. It cleans the slate.

So what? This doesn't help me know what to call a person.

In the end, the term you choose to use (as an Indian or non-Indian) is your own personal choice. Very few Indians that I know care either way. The recommended method is to refer to a person by their tribe, if that information is known. The reason is that the Native peoples of North America are incredibly diverse. It would be like referring both a Romanian and an Irishman as European. It's true that they are both from Europe but their people have very different histories, cultures, and languages. The same is true of Indians. The Cherokee are vastly different from the Lakota, the Dine, the Kiowa, and the Cree, but they are all labeled Native American. So whenever possible an Indian would prefer to be called a Cherokee or a Lakota or whichever tribe they belong to. This shows respect because not only are you sensitive to the fact that the terms Indian, American Indian, and Native American are an over simplification of a diverse ethnicity, but you also show that you listened when they told what tribe they belonged to.

When you don't know the specific tribe simply use the term which you are most comfortable using. The worst that can happen is that someone might correct you and open the door for a thoughtful debate on the subject of political correctness and its impact on ethnic identity. What matters in the long run is not which term is used but the intention with which it is used. Terms like "redskin" and "injun" are obviously offensive because of the historical meaning behind them; however, the term "Indian" is increasingly falling back into use. But when used in the wrong context any label can be offensive."


I'm simply speaking of my heart, my home, and the people (more personally friends and family) in it who I have been interacting with all my life. When saying that the person may as well relax and get comfortable with the word Indian in my area, it is because a change to Native American in titles, groups and businesses was refused. And that is counting 3 different tribal land areas in WNC, and the many Cherokee people who live on and off of "reservations", which are not really reservations is a typical sense. They just still call it The Res, or Snow Bird, or ... It's Federal Tribal Land, and no one can force them to change a single title on it.

And please understand that I am just talking about what is more accepted and preferred where I live, which would technically be the more "PC" option I guess. I simply say Cherokee 99.9% of time, because I know the tribe, but when speaking of American Indian license plates, I call them the correct term. When addressing The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians, again, I address the correct term. It is out of respect.
When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??


Last edited by Fifi.G; 12-24-2013 at 03:57 PM.
I rarely get second day hair. I usually reserve it for one day on the weekend and mostly it starts off looking okay then crap. Today I've chosen to do second day hair when I know cameras will be out and my most critical family member will be present. Because I'm too lazy to wash my hair this morning. Merry Christmas!


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