Have men become disenfranchised?

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Does anyone think the pendulum has swung so far in the other direction that men have lost much of their privilege and operate in a climate where they are simultaneously overburdened and undervalued? Anyone have any "Redpillers" in their lives (SOs) and how is that? If you agree that society has turned against men and if you are single(ish), how does this affect your dating? Misandry at work?
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I haven't directly observed this. Where I live men are definitely not undervalued and people still have somewhat more traditional gender roles, a lot more so than I would like.

So I had to look up redpiller, never heard of it til now. According to urban dictionary -

"Signifies the recognition of the true nature of female behavior, including her attraction to traits of dominance, preference for men with status, attraction to men who have been pre-selected by other women, and hypergamous nature. Red Pill men are aware that women are strongly influenced by the culture and that their attraction cues are often outside of their conscious awareness. Increasingly, modern women, and especially Western women, indulge in one-night stands and short-term relationship in their 20s with alpha males, followed by seeking out a beta male provider in their late 20s and early 30s. Red Pill men are aware of this phenomenon and develop a sexual strategy to benefit from a woman's promiscuity as well as avoid the financial peril of marriage. Married men can also be Red Pill, as their awareness helps them handle female **** tests and maintain attraction with their partner.

A man who has taken the Red Pill is committed to self-improvement and adapting to the reality of female behavior whether that be through the application of game in his relationships and/or withdrawing from LTRs."


I have definitely observed the bolded, but I think it's probably because of where and when I'm meeting guys. They just wanna be single forever.
Does anyone think the pendulum has swung so far in the other direction that men have lost much of their privilege and operate in a climate where they are simultaneously overburdened and undervalued? Anyone have any "Redpillers" in their lives (SOs) and how is that? If you agree that society has turned against men and if you are single(ish), how does this affect your dating? Misandry at work?
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
One thing I do know...my husband has been complaining rather loudly about all the commercials and such that make the dad or the main man look like an idiot. The 4-year old kid has to "rescue" dad or whatever. The kids look super intelligent and dad looks completely stupid. My husband was not the only one to see that; there were other people I've seen on different programs complaining about this as well. Some women passed it off as "it's a joke. It's funny". But every commercial with a dad/man??

There have been a few commercials lately that have gotten away from that. Some of the car commercials: the Suburu one where the dad is cleaning out the car for his daughter and the one where the dad is bringing his daughter to the airport to go into the Army. Those are a great compared to what we've been seeing for a couple years.


I'm definitely a "curly" 2c. Sometimes curly and sometimes just wavy upper layer with a ringlety under layer. My hair has been thick and coarse since birth. Strawberry blonde in color that can and does change depending on the type and amount of light.


All in all, I'm happy with my hair type but almost for sure think yours is prettier.
Nope.... men still have more earning power, more positions of authority, more guarantee of physical safety, etc.
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No, I don't think that at all.
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Does anyone think the pendulum has swung so far in the other direction that men have lost much of their privilege and operate in a climate where they are simultaneously overburdened and undervalued? Anyone have any "Redpillers" in their lives (SOs) and how is that? If you agree that society has turned against men and if you are single(ish), how does this affect your dating? Misandry at work?
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
Have you observed this? Why do you ask? I don't think America has come that far along in gender equality for this to be an issue. I could see it being in issue in some western european societies. But it's silly, so men can't handle women as their equals? I guess I could see very traditional men feeling this way since women have rights now lol. I mean what privilege have they lost? That they cant as easily get away with rape and harassment? That women can break up with them now because we earn money and not put up with their bs??
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Does anyone think the pendulum has swung so far in the other direction that men have lost much of their privilege and operate in a climate where they are simultaneously overburdened and undervalued? Anyone have any "Redpillers" in their lives (SOs) and how is that? If you agree that society has turned against men and if you are single(ish), how does this affect your dating? Misandry at work?
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
Have you observed this? Why do you ask? I don't think America has come that far along in gender equality for this to be an issue. I could see it being in issue in some western european societies. But it's silly, so men can't handle women as their equals? I guess I could see very traditional men feeling this way since women have rights now lol. I mean what privilege have they lost? That they cant as easily get away with rape and harassment? That women can break up with them now because we earn money and not put up with their bs??
Originally Posted by Josephine
There is a rather large movement afoot that seeks to regain lost male privilege. Men involved in this are mad that they still have to pick up the tab on dates with women who claim to be equal, that they can physically outperform women on certain jobs where both are paid equally, that they do not automatically get paternity leave, that they are sexually/physically/verbally assaulted by women w/o redress, that they are duplicitously required to pay CS for children who aren't theirs biologically, that they can neither sleep their way to the top nor solicit sex from women attempting to do so, that they feel inordinate amounts of pressure to remain muscular and verile while women are now allowed to become fat and gross as they age....on and on.
3b (with 3c tendencies) on modified CG


Last edited by spiderlashes5000; 07-01-2015 at 01:36 PM.
There is a rather large movement afoot that seeks to regain lost male privilege. Men involved in this are mad that they still have to pick up the tab on dates with women who claim to be equal, that they are can physically outperform women on certain jobs where both are paid equally, that they do not automatically get paternity leave, that they are sexually/physically/verbally assaulted by women w/o recourse/redress, that they are duplicitously required to pay CS for children who aren't theirs biologically, that they can neither sleep their way to the top nor solicit sex from a woman attempting to do so, that they feel inordinate amounts of pressure to be muscular and verile while women are allowed to become fat and gross as they age....on and on.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
And these are worse than disadvantages that women have? lol

Women can sleep their way to the top? What about normal women that don't, most men can socialize their way to the top and women don't even get invited to social happy hours and other events that help you get into that boys club.

In what area is it okay for women to get fat as they age and men stay muscular because I want to go! It's the opposite here. Men are a little overweight and its okay and expect slimmer women, but women get a little overweight and we're fat and undesirable lol. I date guys 8-9 years younger than me and I'm a cougar or desperate but when my male friend does it, it's normal.

As far as picking up the tab, I wish that would go away, I find it quite awkward although it's nice if he does it the first time. Someone on fb today complained that men don't give up their seats anymore. I mean..why should they unless you're disabled or old, pregnant etc. Does that mean a man can never sit down? Because women will always be coming in.
These whole "who's being victimized more?" predicaments aren't doing any of us any good in the long run. I notice the very men who lament about being disenfranchised are the same ones who dismiss issues that adversely affect women. They're the whiny misogynists.
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We aren't equal until we make the same amount of money, there is some work to be done to get paternity leave, but where there are a considerable amount of jobs that don't give enough maternity leave, first things first. Giving birth is also about physical recovery, not just bonding with the baby. What does not getting recognition that they are physically/mentally/sexually/verbally abused have to do with lack of male privilege? Women are still fighting to get recognition (especially when it comes to Sports athletes). The law does need to change about having to pay child support for a child that isn't theirs. Not even going to dignity the "sleeping to the top" crap, men supposed to stay muscular and virile and women allowed to get fat? When? It's the other way around. How many women get dumped for a younger, skinner woman by a fat dumpy old man vs an older fat woman dumping get fat dumpy husband for a younger buff man? Yeah, hardly never.
Does anyone think the pendulum has swung so far in the other direction that men have lost much of their privilege and operate in a climate where they are simultaneously overburdened and undervalued? Anyone have any "Redpillers" in their lives (SOs) and how is that? If you agree that society has turned against men and if you are single(ish), how does this affect your dating? Misandry at work?
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
Have you observed this? Why do you ask? I don't think America has come that far along in gender equality for this to be an issue. I could see it being in issue in some western european societies. But it's silly, so men can't handle women as their equals? I guess I could see very traditional men feeling this way since women have rights now lol. I mean what privilege have they lost? That they cant as easily get away with rape and harassment? That women can break up with them now because we earn money and not put up with their bs??
Originally Posted by Josephine
There is a rather large movement afoot that seeks to regain lost male privilege. Men involved in this are mad that they still have to pick up the tab on dates with women who claim to be equal, that they are can physically outperform women on certain jobs where both are paid equally, that they do not automatically get paternity leave, that they are sexually/physically/verbally assaulted by women w/o recourse/redress, that they are duplicitously required to pay CS for children who aren't theirs biologically, that they can neither sleep their way to the top nor solicit sex from a woman attempting to do so, that they feel inordinate amounts of pressure to be muscular and verile while women are allowed to become fat and gross as they age....on and on.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000


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There are some instances where men get the shorter end of the stick, but looking at the overall picture, they are still in a better position than women.

I do wish people would see that gender issues affect both men and women and that it shouldn't be a battle between the sexes. It's not a competition and nobody loses if everyone has their rights respected. Everyone should work together to advance on those issues and I am willing to listen about what issues men face, except when their real agenda is to derail or minimize women's issues, which is often the case. They don't really want to promote men's right, they want to keep women in their place.

I don't understand this insistance by groups in a position of priviledge who deny others have it rough, make the argument that's it's all just people overreacting and playing the victim game, and then they immediately proceed to paint themselves as victims too. Which one is it, fellas? You can't have it both ways.
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There are some instances where men get the shorter end of the stick, but looking at the overall picture, they are still in a better position than women.

I do wish people would see that gender issues affect both men and women and that it shouldn't be a battle between the sexes. It's not a competition and nobody loses if everyone has their rights respected. Everyone should work together to advance on those issues and I am willing to listen about what issues men face, except when their real agenda is to derail or minimize women's issues, which is often the case. They don't really want to promote men's right, they want to keep women in their place.

I don't understand this insistance by groups in a position of priviledge who deny others have it rough, make the argument that's it's all just people overreacting and playing the victim game, and then they immediately proceed to paint themselves as victims too. Which one is it, fellas? You can't have it both ways.
Originally Posted by Dedachan


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Does anyone think the pendulum has swung so far in the other direction that men have lost much of their privilege and operate in a climate where they are simultaneously overburdened and undervalued? Anyone have any "Redpillers" in their lives (SOs) and how is that? If you agree that society has turned against men and if you are single(ish), how does this affect your dating? Misandry at work?
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
Have you observed this? Why do you ask? I don't think America has come that far along in gender equality for this to be an issue. I could see it being in issue in some western european societies. But it's silly, so men can't handle women as their equals? I guess I could see very traditional men feeling this way since women have rights now lol. I mean what privilege have they lost? That they cant as easily get away with rape and harassment? That women can break up with them now because we earn money and not put up with their bs??
Originally Posted by Josephine
There is a rather large movement afoot that seeks to regain lost male privilege. Men involved in this are mad that they still have to pick up the tab on dates with women who claim to be equal, that they can physically outperform women on certain jobs where both are paid equally, that they do not automatically get paternity leave, that they are sexually/physically/verbally assaulted by women w/o redress, that they are duplicitously required to pay CS for children who aren't theirs biologically, that they can neither sleep their way to the top nor solicit sex from women attempting to do so, that they feel inordinate amounts of pressure to remain muscular and verile while women are now allowed to become fat and gross as they age....on and on.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000

1) Not sure how much of an issue the dating thing really is. IMO, whoever asks should pay at the beginning and once they are comfortable with each other they should share or alternate if they have around the same money, or the one who makes more should pay more if there is a big difference, and either sex should be able to ask.


2) Who says that being able to physically outperform is the only test of merit in a job? Maybe there are other ways to compensate. There are still plenty of physical jobs mostly done by men that are much better-paying than the type of job mostly done by women.


3) More paternity leave would be nice, but maternity leave isn't even adequate. And there is a reason for maternity leave. Part of it is to allow for resting/preparation/appointments at the end of pregnancy, and part of it is for resting/recovery/appointments/breast feeding etc. right after birth. The woman has many more physical changes than the man. Maternity leave isn't a picnic.


4) There is far more serious assault of women by men than the other way around.


5) How is a man required to pay child support for a child that is not theirs? It may be different in other jurisdictions, but here, and I would assume most places, if there is any doubt about paternity in the beginning, a DNA test can be ordered and if a man is not the father, he would not have to pay. This would only be an issue if he acts as a father for enough time that the child has a bond with him. Then he has to pay because he has stood in the place of a father.


6) How many women really sleep their way to the top? It's offensive if some men think this is common.


7) Since when are women "allowed" to become "fat and gross." The pressures on women re: their appearance are far greater than those on men. Older men are seen as "silver foxes" and can get younger girlfriends much more easily than the other way around.


Not buying any of that and no patience for any men who actually think those things.
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali












Have you observed this? Why do you ask? I don't think America has come that far along in gender equality for this to be an issue. I could see it being in issue in some western european societies. But it's silly, so men can't handle women as their equals? I guess I could see very traditional men feeling this way since women have rights now lol. I mean what privilege have they lost? That they cant as easily get away with rape and harassment? That women can break up with them now because we earn money and not put up with their bs??
Originally Posted by Josephine
There is a rather large movement afoot that seeks to regain lost male privilege. Men involved in this are mad that they still have to pick up the tab on dates with women who claim to be equal, that they can physically outperform women on certain jobs where both are paid equally, that they do not automatically get paternity leave, that they are sexually/physically/verbally assaulted by women w/o redress, that they are duplicitously required to pay CS for children who aren't theirs biologically, that they can neither sleep their way to the top nor solicit sex from women attempting to do so, that they feel inordinate amounts of pressure to remain muscular and verile while women are now allowed to become fat and gross as they age....on and on.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000

1) Not sure how much of an issue the dating thing really is. IMO, whoever asks should pay at the beginning and once they are comfortable with each other they should share or alternate if they have around the same money, or the one who makes more should pay more if there is a big difference, and either sex should be able to ask.


2) Who says that being able to physically outperform is the only test of merit in a job? Maybe there are other ways to compensate. There are still plenty of physical jobs mostly done by men that are much better-paying than the type of job mostly done by women.


3) More paternity leave would be nice, but maternity leave isn't even adequate. And there is a reason for maternity leave. Part of it is to allow for resting/preparation/appointments at the end of pregnancy, and part of it is for resting/recovery/appointments/breast feeding etc. right after birth. The woman has many more physical changes than the man. Maternity leave isn't a picnic.


4) There is far more serious assault of women by men than the other way around.


5) How is a man required to pay child support for a child that is not theirs? It may be different in other jurisdictions, but here, and I would assume most places, if there is any doubt about paternity in the beginning, a DNA test can be ordered and if a man is not the father, he would not have to pay. This would only be an issue if he acts as a father for enough time that the child has a bond with him. Then he has to pay because he has stood in the place of a father.


6) How many women really sleep their way to the top? It's offensive if some men think this is common.


7) Since when are women "allowed" to become "fat and gross." The pressures on women re: their appearance are far greater than those on men. Older men are seen as "silver foxes" and can get younger girlfriends much more easily than the other way around.


Not buying any of that and no patience for any men who actually think those things.
Originally Posted by Amneris
That all makes sense. But the men involved in these movements say that's not what happens. That society now over-empathizes w/ women and women use this "fact" to their advantage.

More: men now have to do half the housework/childcare but aren't as readily excused from their paid jobs for kids' appointments/activities, and women are starting to outearn men due to higher enrollments and retention in college but aren't required to toe the line, and women can dinner-whore themselves for all manner of free meals and gifts and trips but men get shamed for initiating sex, and women decide to have sex they can pass the babies off on whomever if they get pregnant and trick men into marriage and long term spousal and child support arrangements.

There are all sorts of YT channels and webcommunities and such that coach men in how to counteract "toxic, cruel narcissistic women" they are dating and married to and how to mindfq
single women they meet w/ all sorts of strategies such as "negging" and "invoking anti-slut defense."

Any of this ringing a bell or even ringing true to anyone?

***

The alleged father may not have any reason to doubt his paternity so he would not think to file a complaint to establish paternity...until many years later.

***

eta - I guess what I'm talking about are the Men's Rights Movements. Is anyone close to a man involved w/ those?
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Last edited by spiderlashes5000; 07-01-2015 at 04:55 PM.

That all makes sense. But the men involved in these movements say that's not what happens. That society now over-empathizes w/ women and women use this "fact" to their advantage.

More: men now have to do half the housework/childcare but aren't as readily excused from their paid jobs for kids' appointments/activities, and women are starting to outearn men due to higher enrollments and retention in college but aren't required to toe the line, and women can dinner-whore themselves for all manner of free meals and gifts and trips but men get shamed for initiating sex, and women decide to have sex they can pass the babies off on whomever if they get pregnant and trick men into marriage and long term spousal and child support arrangements.

There are all sorts of YT channels and webcommunities and such that coach men in how to counteract "toxic, cruel narcissistic women" they are dating and married to and how to mindfq
single women they meet w/ all sorts of strategies such as "negging" and "invoking anti-slut defense."

Any of this ringing a bell or even ringing true to anyone?

***

The alleged father may not have any reason to doubt his paternity so he would not think to file a complaint to establish paternity...until many years later.

***

eta - I guess what I'm talking about are the Men's Rights Movements. Is anyone close to a man involved w/ that?
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000


1) Most men don't do half the housework. Studies show that women still do more than their share, even when both work full-time.


2) Don't most jobs have personal/sick time that can be used for kids' appointments? I've never heard of this being restricted by gender.


3) Women aren't out-earning men as a whole. We have a long way to go on that front. I read that it was notable recently that 25% of women earn more than their partners (not sure if this was Canada, US or both) so in 75% of households, the man still earns more.


4) Since when do women not have to "toe the line", whatever that means?


5) Women who use sex to get free stuff would generally be judged as "sl*ts." Haven't heard of a man being shamed for initiating sex. Does that happen?


6) A woman can only pass a baby off on a man if he was irresponsible enough to have unprotected sex with her, and if he is stupid enough not to get a paternity test from someone he had a casual relationship with / knew was sleeping around, etc. before marrying or committing to child support.


7) If a man doesn't think to get a paternity test before creating a bond with a child and voluntarily taking responsibility for it, he can't expect all that to be ripped away from the child because years later he finally wises up and gets the test he should have got before. Being a parent isn't solely about the biological link to the child - it's about the relationship with a child, and once you create one, it's for life.


No, thankfully I don't personally know any men like this for friends! I've represented a few who have been charged with rape - nuff said.
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Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











Of course not. It's just a subset of men losing their sh** over even the slightest threat to male privilege. They perceive anything suggestive of gender equality as misandry.

Redpillers literally want rape to be legal. They are despicable.
More: men now have to do half the housework/childcare but aren't as readily excused from their paid jobs for kids' appointments/activities
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
Men are expected to do half the housework (not childcare), but they don't. In hetero couples that believe they split those tasks evenly, women still wind up doing most of the work. As for childcare, it's still very much the norm for women to sacrifice their careers -- either entirely or by missing out on advancement -- to raise the kids.

As for the child support stuff: In the US, the point of child support is for the government to avoid supporting children via welfare. So once paternity has been pinned on someone, the government grants only a short time period to revoke it (usually about two years). The issue doesn't come up with moms because it's usually very easy to determine biological maternity, for obvious reasons. So no, it's not entirely fair to people who can fulfill the male reproductive role. But it's also unfair that people with uteruses have to bear the burdens of pregnancy and childbirth.

Basically, "men's rights" people view everything from the perspective that women should have no rights and be silent, obedient, and conventionally attractive. A lot of the supposed problems they talk about don't actually exist. Meanwhile, the legitimate problems they bring up are already covered by feminism.
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I don't know any men who suffer in any way as a result of gender. And until I really and truly do, they can cry me an effing river.

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