Wash. appeal scourt says pit bull a deadly weapon - Page 12

gekko422 · 06-14-2007, 03:56 PM

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Originally Posted by LisaAnn

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Originally Posted by gekko422

If you didn't want us to answer you, maybe you shouldn't have asked.

Man you are SO demanding.

Send me cookies.

Peppy · 06-14-2007, 03:57 PM

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Originally Posted by Bailey422

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Originally Posted by Peppy

This entire thread is just laughable. You ask if we've seen anything about GS attacks. We show you some. Then you get all defensive again.

Agreed.

Oh don't you go agreeing with me! You were called irresponsible and rude just a few posts ago. At least I think you were. You were quoted and your name was specifically mentioned. But I could be mistaken. Where's Gekko with the flowcharts?????

mandyv · 06-14-2007, 03:58 PM

I'm not defensive. I'm not saying GS's don't attack. You're trying to change the subject from pits. The man was too close to the dog, the dog probably didn't know him. I didn't listen to the audio, but this wasn't exactly like a pit bull attacking a child. Or is that too defensive?

Whatever. M2lR, I don't understand your point. Peppy, this was one, not "some." Along the same line, how many pit bull attacks are on youtube??

Peppy · 06-14-2007, 03:58 PM

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Originally Posted by gekko422

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Originally Posted by Peppy

I get the distinct impression that the purpose of this thread was NOT to discuss breed-specific legislation. I think we were just all expected to say, "Yay! That's great!"

I let you go first. Now send me my cookies.

Koukla72 · 06-14-2007, 04:01 PM

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Originally Posted by Peppy

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Originally Posted by Bailey422

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Originally Posted by Peppy

This entire thread is just laughable. You ask if we've seen anything about GS attacks. We show you some. Then you get all defensive again.

Agreed.

Oh don't you go agreeing with me! You were called irresponsible and rude just a few posts ago. At least I think you were. You were quoted and your name was specifically mentioned. But I could be mistaken. Where's Gekko with the flowcharts?????

:P

Aries_jb · 06-14-2007, 04:02 PM

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Originally Posted by mandyv

I'm not defensive. I'm not saying GS's don't attack. You're trying to change the subject from pits. The man was too close to the dog, the dog probably didn't know him. I didn't listen to the audio, but this wasn't exactly like a pit bull attacking a child. Or is that too defensive?

Whatever. M2lR, I don't understand your point. Peppy, this was one, not "some." Along the same line, how many pit bull attacks are on youtube??

The thing is, though, that you are making excuses for the GS breed, but don't make the same for pitbulls. You could say the same thing if a pitbull had attacked the man. To me, it looked unprovoked. If a person stepped towards me the way that that man did, I don't think my pit would react the way that shepherd did. Also a few other posters linked more articles about GS attacks.

Kaia · 06-14-2007, 04:02 PM

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Originally Posted by mandyv

I'm not defensive. I'm not saying GS's don't attack. You're trying to change the subject from pits. The man was too close to the dog, the dog probably didn't know him. I didn't listen to the audio, but this wasn't exactly like a pit bull attacking a child. Or is that too defensive?

When pits attack, there's generally a reason as well.

gekko422 · 06-14-2007, 04:04 PM

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Originally Posted by mandyv

I'm not defensive. I'm not saying GS's don't attack. You're trying to change the subject from pits. The man was too close to the dog, the dog probably didn't know him. I didn't listen to the audio, but this wasn't exactly like a pit bull attacking a child. Or is that too defensive?

Whatever. M2lR, I don't understand your point. Peppy, this was one, not "some." Along the same line, how many pit bull attacks are on youtube??

I am not trying to change the subject. YOU asked about German Shepherds, we responded. And some of the articles I posted WERE about German Shepherds/Shepherd mixes attacking children.

Really. Do you read your own posts?

gekko422 · 06-14-2007, 04:05 PM

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Originally Posted by Peppy

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Originally Posted by Bailey422

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Originally Posted by Peppy

This entire thread is just laughable. You ask if we've seen anything about GS attacks. We show you some. Then you get all defensive again.

Agreed.

Oh don't you go agreeing with me! You were called irresponsible and rude just a few posts ago. At least I think you were. You were quoted and your name was specifically mentioned. But I could be mistaken. Where's Gekko with the flowcharts?????

HA!

I ate my crayons.

cympreni · 06-14-2007, 04:09 PM

I was nearly killed by a chow when I was a kid, they managed to pull him off of me right as he was going for my neck. I had to have over 40 stitches and had to so some physical therapy, I still have some pretty nasty scars from it. I was deathly terrified of dogs for many many years, even little dogs. then one day, I was at a cook-out with some friends, and they had all brought their dogs, there was a bunch of pit bull, rotts. I was an uninvited guest, so I really didn't feel comfortable asking everyone to put their dogs up, so I just sat back, tried to keep calm, and tried to stay away from the dogs. And I watched them. I watched a pit bull get tore up by a bunch of puppies that played way to rough without a single complaint. I watched to rott push him away from his food. This particular pit was known for it's "agressive" behavior, and he did nothing. I ended up spending quite alot of time with this dog and never once did I see any agressive behavior, looking back I think the owner just told people that so no one would mess with him. It was because of pit bulls that got me over my fear of dogs. I ended up adopting that one's "girlfriend", the only problem I ever had with her was she didn't know her own size, which was big for a pit, and would try and crawl in my lap like a puppy, and the fact she was so large I couldn't find a place that would let me keep her.

Since then I have known many pits, all of them were loyal, and obediant. I am actually more afraid of little dogs, they seem to have an inferiority complex, and try to "prove" themselves all the time.

Ceaser Millian has a dog pack of over 30 dogs most of which are pit bulls, rotts, and other so-called "vicious" dogs. They all get along so well, that they can share 1 ball with no fights. He said once on the show, of all dogs, he trusts pit bulls the most.

What if we do do this breed ban, then what? Just kill all the dogs? And these aren't some wild animal that can survive on it's own and have their own habitat, they have no other place to go.

mandyv · 06-14-2007, 04:11 PM

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Originally Posted by gekko422

Really. Do you read your own posts?

No, never. Besides, I'm not as smart as you so it wouldn't matter if I did read my own posts, I wouldn't be able to understand them.

But at least I'm not getting as nasty as you and bailey are.

Kaia · 06-14-2007, 04:11 PM

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Originally Posted by Koukla72

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Originally Posted by Bailey422

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Originally Posted by Koukla72

Bailey, I didn't mean people who do take their pits out on walks without a muzzle are by default knowingly irresponsible and horrible. It certainly sounds as though you care about other people's feelings and it also sounds like your dog is, either through training or socialization or whatever, a lovely dog. But it's still true that most pit bulls, if they conform to the breed standard, have the ability to be animal-aggressive without warning. I do think you might want to think about the reality that on sidewalks and jogging trails that most people use to walk their dogs, people, children and other dogs are always "coming at you" and in close quarters, even if they don't want to be. A lead that's only a couple feet long is still plenty long on a sidewalk or trail only four feet wide or less, for example. And it's not their responsibility to make sure anything bad doesn't happen or even that we don't inadvertently scare them, it's ours as dog owners.

I'd also like to point out that these things also protect our dogs from people's fears of them.

In response to the bolded: if they fear my dog based on the way he looks, I would hope they make a small circle around us, not run straight at us and then get freaked out. My dog won't lunge or growl, so if merely coming into close proximity to him makes them afraid, it is their responsibility to go around. Surely you don't expect me to go two yards off the sidewalk every time I see someone. I'm not a mind reader, so I don't know if what makes them afraid. If I see someone who is obviously acting nervous (holds their child tighter for example), I will go to the side and stop until they pass. I do the same to people on bikes, in this case because bikes scare my dogs. But if somebody is coming towards us, my assumption is that they are ok being near a dog, and my only responsibility is to keep my dog from coming into physical contact with them, which I do. If I did scare someone (which in my 4 years of dog ownership has not happened), I can assure you it's because of their lack of common sense, not mine.

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Originally Posted by Aries_jb

I for one consider myself to be responsible when it comes to my dog. I respect the fact that some people are scared by big dogs and that they might find them intimidating. If people coming towards me don't cross the street, then I do. If I see children playing in their yard, I cross the street. When I take my dog to the vet, I wait outside until we are called in. I don't try to bring him around little yappy dogs that might excite him because they're growling at him. If someone wants to pet my dog, I warn them that he jumps up. Then I proceed to have him sit and I hold him while they pet him. I don't take him to places that are frequented by other people walking their dogs, and it's not so much that I'm afraid he'll attack another dog, but that another dog will attack him. He's strong dog and if he decides to defend himself, he could potentially kill another dog. I don't want that hanging over my dog OR me. I don't care who caused it. To me that wouldn't be the point.

As far as what you're willing to do or not do while you're walking your dog, Bailey, I'm really sorry, but I think the difference in how you feel about what you think is acceptable and, just for example, Aries_jb's post a couple pages back about how she acts when she's out in public with her dog, kind of makes my point for me. Do you think she's misguided or foolish to take those measures to be considerate of other people, and to protect her own dog from others? Because I don't. People who hold up examples of their own wonderful dogs as anecdotal evidence that extra precautions needn't be taken in general are the ones that are misguided, IMO. I also don't think of the known history of a breed's breeding purposes as "fearful propaganda".

I think if you have a dog, especially a large dog of any breed (German Shepherds, too) but particularly a breed that's developed a bad reputation (unfounded or not), you have certain responsibilities to society and the dog itself. As aries_jb, and 2Happy, and I pointed out, it's just as much for the dogs' sakes as for the other person's. It's definitely a pain, it's definitely unjust, and it's definitely frustrating. Unfortunately that doesn't matter in the real world, and I still think that someone who doesn't acknowledge that and act accordingly is acting is some way very irresponsibly. And, come to think of it, rudely.

As my Dad sometimes says, if I have to choose, I'd rather do right, than be right.

Well, you confused me with that first long sentence, but I'll try to respond anyway. Aries is free to cross the street if she wishes. As she stated, her dog jumps on people. A big dog jumping on you us scary, I totally get that. But see, my dogs don't jump, they just keep walking. I don't think my dogs are angels and her dog is evil, but our dogs are different with different issues. Do I think she's misguided or foolish? Heck no! Her dog jumps on people! If I see people coming towards me and they don't act nervous, then I assume they're fine being near dogs. Like I've stated, my dogs don't jump, so we will pass each other and both go on our merry ways.

I live near several busy streets, and there is a sidewalk on only one side. I am not going to cross the street back and forth and risk getting one or some of us run over. I don't take my dogs near children's playgrounds, so that's not an issue. So I don't think it's right to tell me I'm very irresponsible and rude for not crossing the street (and endangering myself and my dogs), when I deal with the situations that Aries described by avoiding them altogether.

gekko422 · 06-14-2007, 04:12 PM

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Originally Posted by mandyv

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Originally Posted by gekko422

Really. Do you read your own posts?

No, never. Besides, I'm not as smart as you so it wouldn't matter if I did read my own posts, I wouldn't be able to understand them.

But at least I'm not getting as nasty as you and bailey are.

I am not being nasty, I am asking you a serious question since you seem to be confused as to who brought up German Shepherds. You keep saying that's not what you asked and that we are trying to change the subject, so I was thinking maybe you didn't realize what you had posted.

Kaia · 06-14-2007, 04:14 PM

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Originally Posted by Peppy

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Originally Posted by Bailey422

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Originally Posted by Peppy

This entire thread is just laughable. You ask if we've seen anything about GS attacks. We show you some. Then you get all defensive again.

Agreed.

Oh don't you go agreeing with me! You were called irresponsible and rude just a few posts ago. At least I think you were. You were quoted and your name was specifically mentioned. But I could be mistaken. Where's Gekko with the flowcharts?????

Whatevah, I'll agree with you if I want! And now I'm nasty too, so you're nasty by association. Neener neener boo boo!

Aries_jb · 06-14-2007, 04:20 PM

So...that's TWO votes for me not being misguided and foolish? Yay! I'm so honored

.

Seriously, maybe what I do is overkill, but I'm just very protective of my dog. I don't want to give anyone any reason to complain about my dog. I see it as my responsibility to keep him out of trouble and because I understand that he scares people, I go to the extra trouble. Of course, it's a quiet residential street, so I can cross back and forth all the live long day without a problem and I can see any potential problems coming from about 40ft away. I understand that not everyone can have that though.

M2LR · 06-14-2007, 04:31 PM

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Originally Posted by mandyv

Whatever. M2lR, I don't understand your point. Peppy, this was one, not "some." Along the same line, how many pit bull attacks are on youtube??

My point IS thatif you were truly concerned about the frequency and severity of dog attacks, that the breed of the dog wouldn't matter. If chihuahua's attacked more often, it wouldn't matter. You have a personal issue with PIT BULLS. It's not the frequency or severity of "dog" attacks, it's about pit bull attacks...and you think that they should be muzzled in public whether or not they truly are a danger.

Yeah, whatever.

mandyv · 06-14-2007, 04:48 PM

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Originally Posted by Peppy

I get the distinct impression that the purpose of this thread was NOT to discuss breed-specific legislation. I think we were just all expected to say, "Yay! That's great!"

No, I knew this would be controversial (as I said) and divisive. And I am in favor of breed-specific legislation.

Peppy · 06-14-2007, 04:54 PM

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Originally Posted by mandyv

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Originally Posted by Peppy

I get the distinct impression that the purpose of this thread was NOT to discuss breed-specific legislation. I think we were just all expected to say, "Yay! That's great!"

No, I knew this would be controversial (as I said) and divisive. And I am in favor of breed-specific legislation.

Really? I never would've guessed!!!!

mandyv · 06-14-2007, 05:06 PM

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Originally Posted by M2LR & Co.

You have a personal issue with PIT BULLS. It's not the frequency or severity of "dog" attacks, it's about pit bull attacks...and you think that they should be muzzled in public whether or not they truly are a danger.

Yeah, whatever.

You're half right. I have a definite issue with pit bulls but it's because of the frequency AND severity of their attacks. They should be muzzled because they are obviously a danger. There's no question about that, among the experts anyway.

KCL · 06-14-2007, 05:13 PM

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Originally Posted by Aries_jb

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Originally Posted by mandyv

I'm not defensive. I'm not saying GS's don't attack. You're trying to change the subject from pits. The man was too close to the dog, the dog probably didn't know him. I didn't listen to the audio, but this wasn't exactly like a pit bull attacking a child. Or is that too defensive?

Whatever. M2lR, I don't understand your point. Peppy, this was one, not "some." Along the same line, how many pit bull attacks are on youtube??

The thing is, though, that you are making excuses for the GS breed, but don't make the same for pitbulls. You could say the same thing if a pitbull had attacked the man. To me, it looked unprovoked. If a person stepped towards me the way that that man did, I don't think my pit would react the way that shepherd did. Also a few other posters linked more articles about GS attacks.

I guess the relevant questions are do pitt bulls attack humans a significantly higher percentage of times than GS or other breeds? Are these attacks more often serious or fatal with a pitt bull versus other breeds? Do these attacks come without provocation more often than with other breeds of dogs?

and questions along those lines

We could all find numerous references to house cats attacking that doesn't mean they are just as dangerous as pumas.