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Old 06-13-2007, 02:26 PM   #21
 
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In my city, owners of American pit bull terriers have to carry $100,000 of insurance on each dog. But very few actually do (based on a conversation I had w/ a police officer). I wish they'd crack down on that law...a lot of problems would be solved if they did.
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Old 06-13-2007, 02:27 PM   #22
 
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The court says a dog is a deadly weapon because it can be used to cause death or substantial bodily harm.
By that reasoning, a fork, a curling iron and a badly positioned banana peel are all deadly weapons. Let's ban them all.
The next time a fork, curling iron or letter opener and screwdriver attacks someone's throat, then you can say that. If they run across the street to do it to someone who poses no threat or to a toddler in its mother's arms, yes, you can say that.
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Old 06-13-2007, 02:31 PM   #23
 
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Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
In my city, owners of American pit bull terriers have to carry $100,000 of insurance on each dog. But very few actually do (based on a conversation I had w/ a police officer). I wish they'd crack down on that law...a lot of problems would be solved if they did.
I don't think that's fair. What about rottweiler, doberman, chow, german shepherd owners... do they have to pay for insurance? What about cocker spaniel owners? Those dogs can be pretty dang vicious!
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Old 06-13-2007, 02:35 PM   #24
 
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Originally Posted by mandyv
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Originally Posted by geeky
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The court says a dog is a deadly weapon because it can be used to cause death or substantial bodily harm.
By that reasoning, a fork, a curling iron and a badly positioned banana peel are all deadly weapons. Let's ban them all.
The next time a fork, curling iron or letter opener and screwdriver attacks someone's throat, then you can say that. If they run across the street to do it to someone who poses no threat or to a toddler in its mother's arms, yes, you can say that.
Well, the issue at hand is the court said that somehting is a deadly weapon if it "can be used to cause death or substantial bodily harm". By that definition, any object, any animal, is a deadly weapon. By the way, I did not see the text of the decision, but according to the article the court said "dog", not "pit bull".
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Old 06-13-2007, 02:36 PM   #25
 
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Originally Posted by mandyv
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Originally Posted by geeky
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The court says a dog is a deadly weapon because it can be used to cause death or substantial bodily harm.
By that reasoning, a fork, a curling iron and a badly positioned banana peel are all deadly weapons. Let's ban them all.
The next time a fork, curling iron or letter opener and screwdriver attacks someone's throat, then you can say that. If they run across the street to do it to someone who poses no threat or to a toddler in its mother's arms, yes, you can say that.
How did toddlers in their mothers' arms come into this thread? I saw nothing in that story suggesting the dog ran across the street to attack someone that posed no threat. The police officer was in the guy's home, as far as the dog was concerned it was someone breaking in trying to hurt its master. My dogs bark their heads off when someone knocks at the door. If someone barged in, I'm sure they'd act defensively. I guess my dachshund and 2 mutts are all deadly weapons then.
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Old 06-13-2007, 02:39 PM   #26
 
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Originally Posted by geeky
Well, the issue at hand is the court said that somehting is a deadly weapon if it "can be used to cause death or substantial bodily harm". By that definition, any object, any animal, is a deadly weapon. By the way, I did not see the text of the decision, but according to the article the court said "dog", not "pit bull".
Well, judging by the OP's last post, I'm starting to see that the motivation for this post was to sensationalize an already sensitive topic to support her own agenda.
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Old 06-13-2007, 02:41 PM   #27
 
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Originally Posted by Bailey422
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Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
In my city, owners of American pit bull terriers have to carry $100,000 of insurance on each dog. But very few actually do (based on a conversation I had w/ a police officer). I wish they'd crack down on that law...a lot of problems would be solved if they did.
I don't think that's fair. What about rottweiler, doberman, chow, german shepherd owners... do they have to pay for insurance? What about cocker spaniel owners? Those dogs can be pretty dang vicious!
Three breeds have been labelled "vicious" here: American pit bull terriers, Staffordshire terriers and American bulldogs (not English or French bulldogs). And the insurance law applies to all three of those. Rotts and the others are not included. However, lots of apartment complexes have rules that ban chows, rotts and a few other breeds. And for 9 years (including while in school) I owned a boxer/chow mix...and my housing choices were severely limited. I accepted that...because the breed (chow) does have a more vicious than average reputation. When I bought a house, they calculated my homeowners' insurance rate based on the breed mix my dog was, too.

Hey, that's life...I should have done more research before I bought him. I was crazy about that dog, but truth be told, he had a tendancy to become violent (and I didn't realize the extent of that tendancy till the end). I treated that dog better than most people treat their kids...and he still turned out half crazy. Sometimes the reputation fits.

But yeah, I did hear the stat that cockers bite more people than another dog in the US. LOL OK, then, maybe throw them into the vicious breed group, too. LOL
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Old 06-13-2007, 02:44 PM   #28
 
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Breef-specific legislation is an admission that these dogs are dangerous, more dangerous than any other breed. German shepherds bite but not like pits and they won't kill you. Look at all the stories of pits, who they attack and the way they attack and how many owners say "But they were so lovable, it's a shock," and let's finally be mature enough to say not all breeds should be treated equally and do something about it.

I've seen one or two pits muzzled in public. All the rest should be.
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Old 06-13-2007, 02:47 PM   #29
 
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Originally Posted by Aries_jb
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Originally Posted by Springcurl
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Originally Posted by Peppy
Better ban poodles too. My poodle would tear your arm off if you weren't careful. And my mom's rottie was a big baby.

Owners are the problem. Not the breed.
exactly.

So many people get dogs then leave them tied up in the back yard 24/7. ANY frustrated dog is going to attack.
I agree with both you. Hearing things like this make me so sad. I can't tell you how many people jump out of the way and cross the street when they see my dog. He's just a lovable big baby! I'm careful with him and all, but seeing reactions like that from others makes me feel bad for him. The worst thing he has ever done was jump up on people. Meanwhile, people are running up to my Chihuahua with their kids, ready to pet and play with her, and it's a problem because she's so vicious! I'm more scared to go out with her because she will not hesitate to bite. Pitbulls are really given such a bad rep because their power is exploited by people so often that people think that those types of dogs are BORN that way.
That in itself would freak me out, and I'm sure it would a lot of other people.
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Old 06-13-2007, 02:48 PM   #30
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyv
I've seen one or two pits muzzled in public. All the rest should be.
This is your opinion, and that's it. One example of a dog attacking someone that barged into their home is not going to sway many people.
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Old 06-13-2007, 02:55 PM   #31
 
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Originally Posted by Bailey422
Well, judging by the OP's last post, I'm starting to see that the motivation for this post was to sensationalize an already sensitive topic to support her own agenda.
My purpose was to engage in the debate again because it's far from settled. I watched a woman with her pit on its leash last week and she was giving it commands like "sit" and "stay" and the dog wasn't paying her the least bit attention. It looked like she was lulling herself into believing the dog was obedient. I thought to myself that is one dog that should be muzzled and if I said that to her, she'd be offended and think I was overreacting. That's why the debate continues. Besides, this was in today's paper, a recent ruling.
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Old 06-13-2007, 02:56 PM   #32
 
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Originally Posted by Amneris
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Originally Posted by Aries_jb
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Originally Posted by Springcurl
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Originally Posted by Peppy
Better ban poodles too. My poodle would tear your arm off if you weren't careful. And my mom's rottie was a big baby.

Owners are the problem. Not the breed.
exactly.

So many people get dogs then leave them tied up in the back yard 24/7. ANY frustrated dog is going to attack.
I agree with both you. Hearing things like this make me so sad. I can't tell you how many people jump out of the way and cross the street when they see my dog. He's just a lovable big baby! I'm careful with him and all, but seeing reactions like that from others makes me feel bad for him. The worst thing he has ever done was jump up on people. Meanwhile, people are running up to my Chihuahua with their kids, ready to pet and play with her, and it's a problem because she's so vicious! I'm more scared to go out with her because she will not hesitate to bite. Pitbulls are really given such a bad rep because their power is exploited by people so often that people think that those types of dogs are BORN that way.
That in itself would freak me out, and I'm sure it would a lot of other people.
It's mostly my family members and people who venture into my backyard. I'm guessing if you were uneasy about it, you wouldn't go out there . In public, I keep him away from people as much as possible so it doesn't happen. Like I said, people cross the street when they see him anyway. Those that do approach us seem to have experience with large dogs and get down on the floor to play with him, so if he jumps up, they don't mind.
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Old 06-13-2007, 03:01 PM   #33
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyv
Breef-specific legislation is an admission that these dogs are dangerous, more dangerous than any other breed. German shepherds bite but not like pits and they won't kill you. Look at all the stories of pits, who they attack and the way they attack and how many owners say "But they were so lovable, it's a shock," and let's finally be mature enough to say not all breeds should be treated equally and do something about it.

I've seen one or two pits muzzled in public. All the rest should be.
My mom said that when my aunt's pit bull killed two cats in the house. (my mom and my aunt live together)

Now let's look a little deeper.

They lived in a house with 30 (yes, 30) cats and three dogs. They were overcrowded and the house smelled like a giant litter box. The dogs were never walked, just let out into the back yard for twice a day. All animals were fed the same food (cat food) out of a couple big bowls in the kitchen.

So the two cats went to get food while the dog was eating, the dog cats and broke their necks.

My mom has since said, many times, "Cassie was a wonderful dog, then she just snapped and killed the cats. I'll never trust pit bulls."

While my mom's case was extreme in that they were overrun by animals thanks to their negligence, I wonder how many other people who claim that their dog "just snapped" or "was always such a good dog" was actually a responsible dog owner.
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Old 06-13-2007, 03:07 PM   #34
 
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I wonder how many other people who claim that their dog "just snapped" or "was always such a good dog" was actually a responsible dog owner.
Honestly, my chow mix had violent tendencies and I was a responsible pet owner. I babied my dog; he even slept on my bed. He was fixed, well fed, well exercised, well socialized as a puppy and I had since he was 7 weeks old. Never abused. But he just wasn't a safe dog to have around. I tried to enroll him in obedience school but he was thrown out. And if anyone ever asks my opinion, I will tell them to think twice before getting a chow or chow mix.
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Old 06-13-2007, 03:11 PM   #35
 
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Originally Posted by Springcurl
I wonder how many other people who claim that their dog "just snapped" or "was always such a good dog" was actually a responsible dog owner.
Honestly, my chow mix had violent tendencies and I was a responsible pet owner. I babied my dog; he even slept on my bed. He was fixed, well fed, well exercised, well socialized as a puppy and I had since he was 7 weeks old. Never abused. But he just wasn't a safe dog to have around. I tried to enroll him in obedience school but he was thrown out. And if anyone ever asks my opinion, I will tell them to think twice before getting a chow or chow mix.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that there's not doggie abnormalities out there. I do think a dog can be vicious or have violent tendencies. In fact, my pug loves to go after joggers and I've got to keep her on a very tight leash when were on any bike/running trails.

I just don't think all dogs of a certain breed are that way simply because they're that breed.
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Old 06-13-2007, 03:14 PM   #36
 
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I wonder how many other people who claim that their dog "just snapped" or "was always such a good dog" was actually a responsible dog owner.
Honestly, my chow mix had violent tendencies and I was a responsible pet owner. I babied my dog; he even slept on my bed. He was fixed, well fed, well exercised, well socialized as a puppy and I had since he was 7 weeks old. Never abused. But he just wasn't a safe dog to have around. I tried to enroll him in obedience school but he was thrown out. And if anyone ever asks my opinion, I will tell them to think twice before getting a chow or chow mix.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that there's not doggie abnormalities out there. I do think a dog can be vicious or have violent tendencies. In fact, my pug loves to go after joggers and I've got to keep her on a very tight leash when were on any bike/running trails.

I just don't think all dogs of a certain breed are that way simply because they're that breed.
But chows do have that reputation, generally. And I'm wondering if it's not well deserved (based on my dog and the stories of several other chows I've heard). Some of it is individual. But i think some may be be breed-related.
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Old 06-13-2007, 03:14 PM   #37
 
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Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Springcurl
I wonder how many other people who claim that their dog "just snapped" or "was always such a good dog" was actually a responsible dog owner.
Honestly, my chow mix had violent tendencies and I was a responsible pet owner. I babied my dog; he even slept on my bed. He was fixed, well fed, well exercised, well socialized as a puppy and I had since he was 7 weeks old. Never abused. But he just wasn't a safe dog to have around. I tried to enroll him in obedience school but he was thrown out. And if anyone ever asks my opinion, I will tell them to think twice before getting a chow or chow mix.
My friend had a dog that was not a safe dog to have around, and was treated very well and responsibly. Not a pitbull or a chow or a rottie, a regular old yellow mutt. Here two pits were darlings and never hurt a soul. Of course responsible ownership goes a long way, but any dog has the potential to bite, all dogs are animals and have an animal nature so the potential for biting is there. that's the other problem with breed-specific legislation, I think it makes people think that if a dog does not belong to the vilified breed, then that dog is not dangerous, when the truth is any animal is potentially dangerous and should be treated as such.
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Old 06-13-2007, 03:20 PM   #38
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeky
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Springcurl
I wonder how many other people who claim that their dog "just snapped" or "was always such a good dog" was actually a responsible dog owner.
Honestly, my chow mix had violent tendencies and I was a responsible pet owner. I babied my dog; he even slept on my bed. He was fixed, well fed, well exercised, well socialized as a puppy and I had since he was 7 weeks old. Never abused. But he just wasn't a safe dog to have around. I tried to enroll him in obedience school but he was thrown out. And if anyone ever asks my opinion, I will tell them to think twice before getting a chow or chow mix.
My friend had a dog that was not a safe dog to have around, and was treated very well and responsibly. Not a pitbull or a chow or a rottie, a regular old yellow mutt. Here two pits were darlings and never hurt a soul. Of course responsible ownership goes a long way, but any dog has the potential to bite, all dogs are animals and have an animal nature so the potential for biting is there. that's the other problem with breed-specific legislation, I think it makes people think that if a dog does not belong to the vilified breed, then that dog is not dangerous, when the truth is any animal is potentially dangerous and should be treated as such.
ITA.
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Old 06-13-2007, 03:20 PM   #39
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Springcurl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peppy
Better ban poodles too. My poodle would tear your arm off if you weren't careful. And my mom's rottie was a big baby.

Owners are the problem. Not the breed.
exactly.

So many people get dogs then leave them tied up in the back yard 24/7. ANY frustrated dog is going to attack.
But a poodle isn't likely to kill or seriously injure you, where a pit bull or other aggressive strong breed is. I love animals, and I'm torn on this debate because I think there are wonderful pit bulls out there, but at the same time I've seen firsthand the damage these dogs do as well as the cruel side of the starving, tortured and neglected ones that aren't good "fightin dogs".

I also agree the owner/environment is a big cause. but ANY dog can snap at any time, and the difference is that a pitbull could kill one of my young kids.
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Old 06-13-2007, 03:24 PM   #40
 
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Also, pit bulls are not easy to identify. Given their vicious reputation, I think any dog that bites someone and does not look like a chihuahua gets labeled a "pit bull". I would like to see photos of the animals and and pedigree papers for all the "pit bull" attacks in the media.

Misidentified Pit Bulls


Can you find the Pit Bull? I had a hard time, and I have spent a decent amount of time around them.
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