Have you voted yet? - Page 4

Summer91 · 11-02-2004, 06:26 PM

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Yup, the situation now is definitely different from that.

What scriptures DO back up the pro-life argument? I always hear "they're in there" but never any actual references. (The Genesis 2-7 was sent to me by a pro-lifer I know.)

Personally, I think of myself as both Pro-Life and Pro-Choice, in that I *hope* I'd only have an abortion if my life were in danger, and I hate abortion as birth control, dislike abortion as accident control (meaning birth control was used but failed), and refuse to judge others for feeling/behaving differently, and believe that the choice should be there, even if I think it should rarely be taken.

NetG,

In my opinion these (below) scriptures back up or imply the belief that God loves and cares about us while in the womb and would therefore be against abortion. These are taken from the NASB version which is supposed to be the most literal translation.

"Your hands fashioned and made me altogether, and would You destroy me? Remember now, that You have made me as clay; and would You turn me into dust again? Did You not pour me out like milk and curdle me like cheese; clothe me with skin and flesh, and knit me together with bones and sinews? You have granted me life and lovingkindness; and Your care has preserved my spirit." - Job 10: 8-12

"Thus says the LORD who made you and formed you from the womb, who will help you, do not fear, O Jacob My servant; And you Jeshurun whom I have chosen." - Isaiah 44:2

"Now the word of the LORD came to me saying, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations." - Jeremiah 1:4-5

"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb. I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth; Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them." - Psalm 139 13-16

"And now says the LORD, who formed Me from the womb to be His Servant, To bring Jacob back to Him, so that Israel might be gathered to Him. For I am honored in the sight of the LORD, and My God is My strength." - Isaiah 49:5

"Did not He who made me in the womb make him, and the same one fashion us in the womb?" - Job 31:15

"Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by Myself and spreading out the earth all alone..." - Isaiah 44:24

chappysmom · 11-02-2004, 08:33 PM

I voted at lunchtime today and had no trouble at all. When I got to my polling place (a firehouse), there was one person voting, two people ahead of me, signing in at the M-Z book, while I signed in to the A-L book, voted, and was out of there in about 5 minutes. I heard one of the volunteers saying that they'd had a steady stream of voters all day--no lulls.

Can I just say that I LOVE that voter turnout is so huge this time??

I was a poli-sci major in college, and am thrilled that so many people are involved this time. I think that not only is this election obviously an important one, but that the 2000 election really pointed out that individual votes really can make a difference.

Also, this year marks the 20th anniversary of the first time I got to vote. 1984, a Presidential-election year, I turned 18 ON election day. It was so cool to be able to vote, for the very first time, on my birthday, for the President. I can't believe that was 20 years ago. . . .

As to the voting-in-churches thing, my only comment is that I saw on the news this morning that this year for the first time, some muslem mosques are being used as polling places.

Deb in NJ

BohemianRenegade · 11-02-2004, 09:17 PM

My comment on the voting in churches thing: GET OVER IT!!!

Those people who complain about voting in churches would complain if only schools were used because of the *threat* to children, would complain if there were fewer polling places cause there would be longer lines, etc.

I am a Christian and would I complain if I had to vote in a mosque or a synagogue? NO, I am glad just to have the right and the opportunity to vote, who cares where the polling place is.

Excuse my rant, but I have just returned from Haiti, the most corrupt nation in the world and I am counting my blessings that I am back in the U.S. and the rights and freedoms we have here.

Chakra · 11-02-2004, 10:40 PM

ChestnutCurls,

Welcome Back..Glad you are safe and sound! ITA with your comments. People who complain and don't do anything to change or improve situations just want to complain.

I don't want to get attacked so I won't comment much about this but I do have very strong opinions about people who don't vote and all of the excuses they use to justify it....and then they want to complain........WHAT ever!!!!!

Excuse MY rant...but this IS America and everyone is entitled to their opinion but some people like to use American values as an excuse to be lazy.

jennifer ^v^ · 11-02-2004, 10:42 PM

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Originally Posted by ChestnutCurls

My comment on the voting in churches thing: GET OVER IT!!!

Those people who complain about voting in churches would complain if only schools were used because of the *threat* to children, would complain if there were fewer polling places cause there would be longer lines, etc.

I am a Christian and would I complain if I had to vote in a mosque or a synagogue? NO, I am glad just to have the right and the opportunity to vote, who cares where the polling place is.

Excuse my rant, but I have just returned from Haiti, the most corrupt nation in the world and I am counting my blessings that I am back in the U.S. and the rights and freedoms we have here.

Well, that's the beauty of living in America--people can be different than you, and are allowed to have different reactions to things than you'd have. Isn't telling someone to get over something they feel strongly about a bit harsh?

Besides, the people "complaining" already voted, so they did their duty and put their personal feelings aside for the greater purpose.

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I voted, but I truly hope that people remain this engaged in how their country works beyond Election Day. This usually doesn't happen, though--which is why, even though I'm excited that people are voting, I'm a bit wary that in a few months...weeks...days...people will find "better things to do" than worry about their country.

If people are only concerned about politics when their general apathy allowed someone to get into office and do things of which they don't approve...we're worse off than I initially feared.

NetG · 11-02-2004, 11:01 PM

ChestnutCurls and Chakra, did you bother actually reading what I posted? As jennifer pointed out, I *did* vote. And as *I* pointed out, it was the fact that these signs were put up SPECIFICALLY FOR THE DAY OF VOTING, which weren't there just last week, which really bothered me.

We all know GWB is the candidate who is supposedly on the side of the pious minority, and these signs were almost like "see, G-d wants you to vote for Bush!" Given the signs weren't there a week ago, HELL YES it bothers me, and it could quite possibly be construed as illegal.

If you think we shouldn't express our opinions, maybe you should consider what it is you actually like about the US.

Little Miss Snarky Booyah · 11-02-2004, 11:27 PM

I think the main problem with voting in a church is that sometimes people are approached and then evangelized while they are there.

That sucks. It's completely inappropriate. People are there to vote, not have some stranger come up to them to try to save their souls.

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I voted. It was lots of fun. I also didn't get a sticker. I wanted a sticker. I'm going to write the winner of the election a letter, complaining about the lack of stickers.

NetG · 11-02-2004, 11:29 PM

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Originally Posted by Little Miss Cleeky Booyah

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I voted. It was lots of fun. I also didn't get a sticker. I wanted a sticker. I'm going to write the winner of the election a letter, complaining about the lack of stickers.

Ooooh. Ali, I think you have a winning platform idea!

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Stickers for everyone!

hnyhps · 11-03-2004, 01:20 AM

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Originally Posted by PartyHair

I have to vote in a school and these days that makes me nervous for the kids - any ol' body could just wander right into the school. That's so unsafe!

I wouldn't have a problem voting in a church or a synagogue or a mosque or whatever. As someone else said, I'm not there about a religious issue; I'm there to cast my vote. The location of the polls has no impact on how I vote.

I agree. I was thinking that today as I was voting at a school. There was a police men there but I don't think he was there for the kids.

hnyhps · 11-03-2004, 01:23 AM

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Originally Posted by NetG

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Originally Posted by Summer91

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I think Bush DOES allow his religious affiliation to affect a lot of his decisions, in many cases to the detriment of aid societies saving lives all over the world.

Just wondering if you'd explain this a little further (if you don't mind).

I don't mind at all.

This link is from when the actual law passed.

If you just read that, it sounds like it's not a big deal.

However, President Bush used it to withhold funding to any program which offered abortion at all, because he believes that his religion says it's wrong. Personally, I'd suggest anyone who says abortion is wrong according to the Bible look up Genesis 2-7, but that's just me and my interpretation.....

I voted for Bush anyway, but my skin was crawling as I did so.

Is the verse you are talking about? I don't understand how it is revelant to abortion. Can you explain what you mean?

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7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

hnyhps · 11-03-2004, 01:24 AM

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Originally Posted by PartyHair

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Originally Posted by perfectlyfrizzycurls

There is no school in Chicago on Election Day, so there is no worry of people harming school children. Also, this church also, has a school. Terrorism can happen anywhere, so terrorism as a threat is pretty lame. Also, schools are always crawlign with police, even in the suburbs. Most schools have an officer assigned to the school that is there all day.

Great for Chicago's kids. I'm not in Chicago and the kids ARE in school today.

I agree that terrorism can happen anywhere. I was thinking more along the lines of perverts rather than terrorists.

they were in school in the burbs too.

hnyhps · 11-03-2004, 01:26 AM

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Originally Posted by NetG

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Originally Posted by Summer91

How does Genesis 2-7 refute the opinion that the Bible says abortion is wrong?

It's *totally* a matter of opinion.

However, I have only heard the Biblical argument as "the Bible says Thou Shalt not kill."

There are ways of interpreting, though, which make it interesting whether or not you'd even say a fetus is considered a life by the Bible.

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Originally Posted by King James Version

And the LORD G-d formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

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Originally Posted by Revised Standard Version

then the LORD G-d formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

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Originally Posted by Darby version

And Jehovah Elohim formed Man, dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and Man became a living soul.

To me that makes it sound as if the soul and life begin at first breath. Again, up to many different interpretations!

ETA: Personally, I don't look at abortion as a Biblical issue, but many others seem to. Pro-lifers, anyway.

oh. I see. I was talking to someone today about abortion being in the bible, other than it being said "thou shall not murder". I'm waiting for them to come back to me.

hnyhps · 11-03-2004, 01:30 AM

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Originally Posted by NetG

ChestnutCurls and Chakra, did you bother actually reading what I posted? As jennifer pointed out, I *did* vote. And as *I* pointed out, it was the fact that these signs were put up SPECIFICALLY FOR THE DAY OF VOTING, which weren't there just last week, which really bothered me.

.

Do you know that for a fact? Are you a member of that church?

curlyarca · 11-03-2004, 05:08 AM

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Originally Posted by Summer91

On the subject of taking children to vote with you. Today while I was in line the man behind me was flipping out about kids being there. I mean, majorly wigging out. He kept repeatedly saying things like, "this is why Bush won the last time, because stupid people bring their kids and get distracted while voting".

Uh, what does he think they should do? Not everyone can afford childcare while they vote, not to mention some people want to teach their children about the election process.

it's ok for people to bring their babies and kids to scream and cry and in some instances also get in the way while the adults are trying to vote because "i can't afford childcare, i want to teach my child" but if you choose not to vote because of "not liking the crowds, not liking the candidates, wanting to make a point" then you're undeserving of being an american.

all you're saying (general you) is that your "excuses" are justified and someone else's aren't because they're not in your situation.

Summer91 · 11-03-2004, 05:51 AM

I guess what I was trying to say that yes, it was irritating to listen to the kids run, scream and cry (boy was it ever), but the guy griping about it wasn't helping matters. Then I had to listen to both.

I guess a person has to assume they'll have to possibly have to put up with all kinds of annoyances, but that's the way it is if you want to vote.

PartyHair · 11-03-2004, 07:51 AM

I voted after work yesterday. I waited in line outside in the cold wind (it was only 55 degrees! That's cold here! And it was windy, I promise...) for an hour, then waited inside the school (blessed relief) for another 15 minutes. I was behind a group of medical students from the U. where I work so it was fun. They were hilarious and it made the time fly by. Plus they were cute 24 year old boys with brains - what's not to enjoy?

Chakra · 11-03-2004, 08:49 AM

NetG, Actually...MY comments weren't directed at you...seriously. I was just voicing my opinion in general not to anyone in particular.