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View Poll Results: Is Hispanic/Latino a Race
Yes 12 34.29%
No 23 65.71%
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Old 04-29-2005, 06:16 PM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by SPRINGY
my hubby is mexican. when i talked to the cencus lady she ask what race my hubby was. then she gave me a list and he was not on it. so she marked him as other.
Did you tell her that his race is Caucasian? I'm pretty sure that's where I would've gone with that.
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Old 04-29-2005, 06:20 PM   #22
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roseannadana
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amneris
thought the term Latin America was coined by Napoleon to empahasize that the region spoke a Romance language (Spanish, Portuguese and French are all Romance languages) as opposed to the mainly anglo roots of North America, and he knew the term Franco America would not be accepted.
He was probably right. Because when I hear Franco America my mind wanders and I start thinking about SpaghettiO's
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Old 04-30-2005, 01:27 AM   #23
 
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Originally Posted by Who Me?
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Old 04-30-2005, 01:42 AM   #24
 
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Kind of a guano, but...

I get slightly annoyed when I tell people that my mom is Polish Brazilian and people get this look on their face like I just told them my mom is from Jupiter. People do not understand it all! I tell people that it is like being Irish American! Whatever, I try not to get too involved.
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Old 04-30-2005, 06:36 AM   #25
 
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Originally Posted by Michelle*
Kind of a guano, but...

I get slightly annoyed when I tell people that my mom is Polish Brazilian and people get this look on their face like I just told them my mom is from Jupiter. People do not understand it all! I tell people that it is like being Irish American! Whatever, I try not to get too involved.
I know how you feel!

I would think you were talking about my friend but she never had children.

I do not care so much about assumptions and mistakes but when you tell them the truth they act like you are lying. That bothers me. Why would someone lie?

Gisele B. is of German and Italian descent—is she any less Brasilian? Absolutely not.

Using her as an example, it is obvious that Gisele is of Latin culture not "race."

Saying that she is of Latin American "race" because she was born in Brasil is like saying that anyone born in the United States, Canada, Mexico, or Greenland (the last two are also a part of the North American continent) is of North American "race."


Then again, believing that Latina/Hispanic is a race is proof that race is a political and social construct. I am sure in a decade there will be another "race" of people. Or maybe the people in the future would be wise enough to get rid of such an arbitrary category.

Race is arbitrary. For me, my cultural heritage is more important than identifying with a race.

I am going to start categorizing people into racial groups according to their toe and head sizes. .


Michelle: sou filha da Brasileira também.
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Old 04-30-2005, 10:27 AM   #26
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cehua
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle*
Kind of a guano, but...

I get slightly annoyed when I tell people that my mom is Polish Brazilian and people get this look on their face like I just told them my mom is from Jupiter. People do not understand it all! I tell people that it is like being Irish American! Whatever, I try not to get too involved.
I know how you feel!

I would think you were talking about my friend but she never had children.

I do not care so much about assumptions and mistakes but when you tell them the truth they act like you are lying. That bothers me. Why would someone lie?

Gisele B. is of German and Italian descent—is she any less Brasilian? Absolutely not.

Using her as an example, it is obvious that Gisele is of Latin culture not "race."

Saying that she is of Latin American "race" because she was born in Brasil is like saying that anyone born in the United States, Canada, Mexico, or Greenland (the last two are also a part of the North American continent) is of North American "race."


Then again, believing that Latina/Hispanic is a race is proof that race is a political and social construct. I am sure in a decade there will be another "race" of people. Or maybe the people in the future would be wise enough to get rid of such an arbitrary category.

Race is arbitrary. For me, my cultural heritage is more important than identifying with a race.

I am going to start categorizing people into racial groups according to their toe and head sizes. .

Michelle: sou filha da Brasileira também.
That is soo true. I get asked quite frequently... especially in the summer when I have a tan... what "I am". It is so rude. It happened to me last night as a matter of fact. It has also happened more since I have been wearing my hair curly. I guess I just have a *unique* look and people want to classify it... I just tell them I am American. I have a teeny bit of Native American in me, my great great grandpa was full blooded Native American.
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Old 05-01-2005, 09:57 PM   #27
 
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As someone who is part Mexican, part Spanish, part French and part Euromutt... hell no! Franco America would not have been accepted. "Je ne parlais Francais!" Very few of us do.

Seriously, no I do not think Hispanic and/or Latino is a race as is defined by sociologists (ie Caucasoid, Mongoloid and Negroid) - by that definition most Latinos are biracial or even triracial. There is no typical Latino look. On the West Coast most Latinos/Hispanics are Mestizo (Native + European). On the East Coast most Latinos/Hispanics are Mulato (African + European).

I was in NYC recently and no one spoke to me in Spanish. In fact they spoke Spanish right in front of me like I wasn't even there. It was kind of funny - especially since people spoke to me in Italian. My Italian is worse than my French.

Quote:
Michelle* wrote:
Kind of a guano, but...

I get slightly annoyed when I tell people that my mom is Polish Brazilian and people get this look on their face like I just told them my mom is from Jupiter. People do not understand it all! I tell people that it is like being Irish American! Whatever, I try not to get too involved.
LOL! I sort of feel your pain. I get something different yet oddly similar. My mom is Mexican - a Mestiza - I look Southern European - probably because I am mostly Southern European - when I was a kid people would meet my mom and say - she can't be your mom, she looks SO MEXICAN - like it was a sin or something. Hello??? did I not tell them I was half Mexican. I don't hide it from anyone. :headscratch:headscratch.gif

Quote:
Race is arbitrary. For me, my cultural heritage is more important than identifying with a race.
That is so true when I was in NYC, the girl at Macy's started asking me questions because I had a Spanish last name. We had a nice conversation in Spanish. She was Dominican - racially black by the sociology scale. However, she and I saw each other culturally as "us". It was weird, I was really glad to meet her because I am used to people speaking to me in Spanish (assuming people speak Spanish) where I am. I missed "us".

One more guano question for the bi or tri-racial Latinas: what do you see yourself as?

When someone says "Latinas" I think of that as being me, however when someone says "White women" I also think of that as being me.
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Old 05-01-2005, 10:04 PM   #28
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Who Me?
According to the US government there are 5 main races:

American Indian or Alaskan Indian
Asian
Black or African American
Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander
White

and 2 main ethnicities:

Hispanic/Latino
Non Hispanic/Latino

The ethnicity question should always be asked first, then the race question.

(I work in public health, and have to deal with this stuff ALL the time.)
okay, 2 main ethnicities? hispanic and non-hispanic? I mean, I'm not american, but that sounds ridiculous, there are way more "main" ethnicities.
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Old 05-01-2005, 10:17 PM   #29
 
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Hispanic/Latino was never a race in the US. I've been filling out census forms since 1980 because my mom only reads Spanish and we were "White" as far as race is concerned in 1980 and 1990. After "race" there was a box that asked if one is Hispanic or not. We would check the "Hispanic" box. In 2000 you were allowed to click more than one race so my mom and I became "White" + "Native American" and then we clicked the Hispanic Boxes.

As for Brasilians - I've never thought of them as Hispanic because they are not. They are Portuguese (+ whatever else). However, I have always thought of them as part of "us" if that makes any sense. I was told that the term Latino was coined in order to include Brasilians and the large population of Italian Europeans.

To the poster who assumed the Argentinian lady was Catholic, I would not feel bad. Yes, there are Hispanic Jews but the majority of us are either Catholic or Evangelical/Pentecostal Christian. The latter is more common among Central Americans.

I'm doing my thesis on Hispanic Marketing (that is the ad agency term), so all this is fascinating to me.
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Old 05-01-2005, 10:42 PM   #30
 
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Cehua, out of curiosity, are you of Latino or Hispanic origin?

On the county application forms I've been filling out, it asks you to pick the one you most identify with, and as I recall the choices are White, Hispanic, African American, Asian and something to do with Native American. I never pick one.
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Old 05-02-2005, 07:51 AM   #31
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Confused Curly
On the East Coast most Latinos/Hispanics are Mulato (African + European).
Confused Curly, mulato means mule (as in product of a horse (European) and donkey (African)) and it is quite an offensive term.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Confused Curly
As for Brasilians - I've never thought of them as Hispanic because they are not. They are Portuguese (+ whatever else). However, I have always thought of them as part of "us" if that makes any sense. I was told that the term Latino was coined in order to include Brasilians and the large population of Italian Europeans.
Nope, most Brasilians do not ourselves to be of Hispanic origin because that would mean Brasil was colonized by the Spanish. I am not quite sure what Spanish-Brasilians consider themselves since the Brasilian Census forms identify you by race and not ethnicity.

I am not sure if Latino was used to include the Europeans (German, Polish, Italian, etc.) population. I thought it was used to incorporate all people born in Latin America just as American incorporates all people born in the United States. But, Hispanic specifically separates the Spanish speakers from those who speak other languages. According to the BOC term, Hispanic includes Spain and any other country that speaks Spanish. Obviously, it is not looking at a race.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyv
Cehua, out of curiosity, are you of Latino or Hispanic origin?
My mother is Brasilian. I was born and raised in the United States but went to college and spent summers in Brasil.

I do not check Latino or Hispanic on any form and neither does anyone else in my family. My mom does not consider herself Hispanic or Latina although she does not deny that she speaks a Latin language and grew up in a African influenced Latin culture.

She does not consider any Brasilian to be Latino as defined in the United States because by the Census definition says anyone with the origin from “Spanish-speaking countries.” Since, the definition did not include all people born in Latin America she assumed they did not mean anyone from the Portuguese or French speaking countries of Latin America.

Before the 2000 Census we (except my father) checked "other" for race and after the 2000 Census we checked "all that applied."

I never tell people that I am Latina but I do tell people, if asked, that I am part Brasilian. Many Brasilians that I have met also say that they are Brasilian and not Latina because of Brasilian pride. They do not want to be lumped together with the Spanish Speakers because so many people do not even know that the native language of Brasil speaks Portuguese.

Guano: I met a Puerto Rican lady who thought that Portuguese was a dialect of Spanish. I had to explain to her that it is a separate language just like Romanian and Italian are separate languages and not dialects of Spanish.

I met a Salvadoran guy who said that I was speaking bad Spanish (he was serious) . I was mad and told him that if he could speak Spanish correctly he would see that Spanish and Portuguese were separate languages. (Yeah, I know the joke that Portuguese is bad Spanish . We just say that Spanish is horrible Portuguese ).


I was in Brasil and a Californian couple were sitting in a cafe and the guy said that he did not speak Portuguese and the girl with him said that it is okay because Brasilians understand Spanish (some do and some do not) and it is all the same. So I told her that yeah if I went to Japan they would understand Chinese because it was all the same (she was of Japanese descent).

Fortunately, these people are the minority (I hope).
I guess most Brasilians in the US do not want to be considered Latina because of the connotation that Latina=Spanish speaking and although there are some cultural similarities there are many differences and we are proud of out uniqueness and do not want to be lumped together. Sort of (not exactly) like Canadians do not want to be lumped together with the United States culture or Quebecois (sp) who want to keep a separate identity from the rest of Canada.

Another Guano: Are people form Equatorial Guinea (formerly Spanish Guinea) considered Hispanic/Latino to other of you Hispanics and Latinos out there?
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Old 05-02-2005, 08:01 AM   #32
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by browneyedgirl27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who Me?
According to the US government there are 5 main races:

American Indian or Alaskan Indian
Asian
Black or African American
Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander
White

and 2 main ethnicities:

Hispanic/Latino
Non Hispanic/Latino

The ethnicity question should always be asked first, then the race question.

(I work in public health, and have to deal with this stuff ALL the time.)
okay, 2 main ethnicities? hispanic and non-hispanic? I mean, I'm not american, but that sounds ridiculous, there are way more "main" ethnicities.
I agree, but when collecting data it is going to get entered as Hispanic or Non Hispanic only almost all of the time. When people are collecting this kind of data, it is not in an effort to find out "what everyone is". It is to find out if people who are identified in a certain way (usually self-identified) have differences than other people.

Personally, I fully believe Race is ONLY a societal construct with no real firm basis in biology (this is supported in a lot of ways). But this doesn't change the fact that it is helpful to know, for instance, that "black" people receive less aid than "white" people, or that "hispanic" people often do not participate in aid programs.

If anyone is interested on how the government designates race and ethnicity, check out www.whitehouse.gov/OMB/fedreg/ombdir15.html

(link edited to hopefully it works!)
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Old 05-02-2005, 08:15 AM   #33
 
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The minimum categories for data on race and ethnicity for Federal statistics, program administrative reporting, and civil rights compliance reporting are defined as follows:

-- American Indian or Alaska Native. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America), and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment.

-- Asian. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.

-- Black or African American. A person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa. Terms such as "Haitian" or "Negro" can be used in addition to "Black or African American."

-- Hispanic or Latino. A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race. The term, "Spanish origin," can be used in addition to "Hispanic or Latino."

-- Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands.

-- White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.
(found from Who Me?'s link that didn't quite work )

good thing we can check more than one
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Old 05-02-2005, 08:22 AM   #34
 
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Hispanic or Latino. A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race. The term, "Spanish origin," can be used in addition to "Hispanic or Latino."
The above definition is why most Brasilians (and all that I know) do not choose Hispanic or Latino on forms in the US. We check our "race(s)" and that is it.
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