View Poll Results: How do you discipline your children?
Grounding/time-outs 2 14.29%
Loss of privileges 4 28.57%
Take away allowance 0 0%
Spanking 5 35.71%
Discuss what the problem is with no punishment 3 21.43%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

How do you discipline your children?

SFCurlee,

I spank my daughter, and it is not abuse. I have personally experienced a disciplinary spanking, as well as physical and verbal abuse. There is a difference. If you, and others, cannot see that, then I am happy that you do not spank your children. We should be conscience-led parents.

I think it is abusive to neglect to do anything that is in the best interest of your child. In my opinion, there are times when spanking is in her best interest, and times when other forms of discipline are. There are times when multiple forms will need to be used for the same offense. It is discipline for me, not "let's pick a punishment."

I think we owe it to our children to be informed (on both sides), and not just do or not do something because our parents did or didn't do something wth us. Finally, the Bible is going to be my authority on how I rasie my children, in love - with discipline. I use the research to learn how to implement spanking and every other discipline technique I use, then I pray and move on in faith. It's interesting that research does not show more of the negative "effects" from spanking than from any other discipline technique - leads me to believe that most parents need to actively learn how to discipline with whatever method they choose. All parents are going to make mistakes, spanking is not one of them for me, but ignorance could lead to lots of them.

And because I seem to have a hard time being uderstood around here lately , I am not calling anyone on this board ignorant.
People rise to the standard expected of them. GC
I don't have any children, but once I do, I fully intend to avoid disciplining them, and instead use a sugar-soaked pacifier to try to quiet them when they're screaming.


(This is a shout out to PartyHair who had a frustrating night last night....note that the situation didn't call for discipline, but rather some form of parenting....just hoping to make her laugh!)
The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
-Speckla

But at least the pews never attend yoga!
I don't have any children, but once I do, I fully intend to avoid disciplining them, and instead use a sugar-soaked pacifier to try to quiet them when they're screaming.


(This is a shout out to PartyHair who had a frustrating night last night....note that the situation didn't call for discipline, but rather some form of parenting....just hoping to make her laugh!)
Originally Posted by NetG
Thank you! You'll be a GREAT mama some day!
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Rock on with your bad self.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Be excellent to each other. ~ Abraham Lincoln

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
I don't have any children, but once I do, I fully intend to avoid disciplining them, and instead use a sugar-soaked pacifier to try to quiet them when they're screaming.


(This is a shout out to PartyHair who had a frustrating night last night....note that the situation didn't call for discipline, but rather some form of parenting....just hoping to make her laugh!)
Originally Posted by NetG
I just read the other thread. But, I think the pacifier is abuse because it's leading to bad oral hygiene .
People rise to the standard expected of them. GC
I don't think anyone mentioned the other side of the coin:

My parents rarely punished me, set rules for me, or held me responsible for anything I did. Everything I did was "Great!". I remember having major meltdowns and they didn't even put a stop to it. I think this did a great diservice to me, really, and I even realized it as young as 14. I always thought, geez, they really dont care, do they? Even my freinds said this. They would ask, why don't your parents give a crap? Sometimes I would do something really rotten just to see if THAT would get me some parenting. It was a sort of lonely feeling.

I am a much more active/mainstream parent, and my children will definitly never wonder if I care about how they behave. I didn't answer the poll, since they are only 1 and 3. I do put my 3 year old in her room for bad behavior, and I tell them both NO, and make them comply when I have said it. Also, if something needs to get done, it dang well gets done: ie brushing teeth- my kids know I will hold them down and do it, so they brush their teeth as they would rather do it "the easy way".

I'm enjoying reading the other posts, to get ideas for when they get older.
3c, CG Fine hairs, med growth.
Formerly "Rainyday"
Dia, Iím curious about the research to which you refer stating that spanking is an effective form of discipline. Is the research mainstream?

The reason that I ask is that Iíve been doing some research and the organiziations that Iíve found that have statements that recommend against spanking include the United Nations, American Pediatrics Association and the American Psychological Association.

Here is one BBC link brief on the United Nations encouraging Britain to change their position on corporal punishment. More can be found on the United Nations meeting at Geneva regarding the welfare of children in the world.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/2297821.stm

Here is the statement by the American Pediatrics Association on spanking:

PEDIATRICS Vol. 101 No. 4 April 1998, pp. 723-728

AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS:
Guidance for Effective Discipline


Committee on Psychosocial Aspects of Child and Family Health

When advising families about discipline strategies, pediatricians should use a comprehensive approach that includes consideration of the parent-child relationship, reinforcement of desired behaviors, and consequences for negative behaviors. Corporal punishment is of limited effectiveness and has potentially deleterious side effects. The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that parents be encouraged and assisted in the development of methods other than spanking for managing undesired behavior.


Here is a link in which the American Psychological Association defines and describes forms of physical abuse. In this attachment, the association defines hitting and slapping a child as physical abuse.

http://www.apa.org/pi//pii/abuse.html

For those who wish to continue spanking your children, you may find this link describing the guidelines that were recently described by the Canadian government to be of interest. Briefly, they recommend only spanking children while they are between the ages of two and twelve.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3446245.stm
Banned
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 9,271
mine dont require disipline.

they are always little angels when i let them out of the closet. :angel:angel.gif :angel:angel.gif
Chocolate Curls,

Here is a link to info on the APA's study that was conducted by Elizabeth Thompson Gershoff, PhD. There is also info about a review of her study by Nebraska and UC Berkley professors. I actually read her study, which was not really a study, but a meta-analysis of 88 studies that were done over 62 years. What I have been consistently saying is that there is no research that shows a cause-effect relationship between spanking and the negative "consequences" that have been described in this thread and by other "children's rights" advocates.

The AAP has identified the following consequences of spanking:

* Spanking of children younger than 18 months increases the chances of physical injury, and the child is unlikely to understand the connection between the behavior and the punishment.
* Repeated spanking may cause agitated, aggressive behavior in the child that may lead to physical altercation between parent and child.
* Spanking models aggressive behavior as a solution to conflict and has been associated with increased aggression in children.
* Spanking and threats of spanking lead to altered parent-child relationships, making discipline substantially more difficult when physical punishment is no longer an option, such as with adolescents. The same outcome is found for all forms of discipline. They alter the parent-child relationship.
* Spanking is no more effective than other disciplinary approaches, and reliance on spanking as a disciplinary approach makes other strategies less effective.
* A pattern of spanking may be sustained or increased.

All of these things are possibilities. There is a possibility that any discipline technique you use with your child could lead to aggression. I wonder if those 3-year olds in the other thread are all spanked? I doubt it, but they learn relational aggression from somewhere - what's to blame for that? There are plenty of papers for or against spanking. There is no research that proves either way, and I just get tired of people trying to use research that is flawed anyway, and still does not prove what they want it to, to detract parents from spanking.

The better thing to do would be, imo, is to tell the truth. "We don't know if it is helpful, we think it may be harmful, so we don't advise you to do it. Here are some other suggestions of techniques you can use to discipline your children." That is a responsible way to get your views across, instead of crying abuse. These same people, I think, would have problems with people telling them time-outs, or single-parent homes, or remarriages, are abuse. All of these factors can be detrimental to a child, but parents do them all the time. I don't believe that spanking is detrimental to children, I believe that abuse, of any kind, is.


Okay, these are my opinions interspersed with a little research . My next post is a paper that shows research to counter many of the arguments against spanking. Sorry this will be long, but it answers point by point. Don't read if you're uninterested!!!!!
People rise to the standard expected of them. GC
Okay, I changed my mind because it's pasting REALLY long! Here is the link - Commonly Held Misconceptions About Spanking

These are the authors:

Den A. Trumbull, M.D. and S. DuBose Ravenel, M.D. Dr. Trumbull is a board-certified pediatrician in private practice in Montgomery, Alabama. He is a member of the Section on Developmental and Behavioral Pediatrics of the American Academy of Pediatrics. Dr. Ravenel is a board-certified pediatrician in private practice in High Point, North Carolina. He served for 11 years on the pediatric faculty of the University of North Carolina School of Medicine prior to entering private practice.

There is an extensive bibliography (endnotes) at the bottom of the page for futher study, if interested.
People rise to the standard expected of them. GC
mine dont require disipline.

they are always little angels when i let them out of the closet. :angel:angel.gif :angel:angel.gif
Originally Posted by zmanzzzz
You only showed them pictures of two of our babies, Z . Don't be afraid to tell our friends that the closet sometimes doesn't work, either. Here's a picture of Junior, you guys:



Please keep him in your prayers; you see he gets his language from Z, too!
People rise to the standard expected of them. GC
mine dont require disipline.

they are always little angels when i let them out of the closet. :angel:angel.gif :angel:angel.gif
Originally Posted by zmanzzzz
You only showed them pictures of two of our babies, Z . Don't be afraid to tell our friends that the closet sometimes doesn't work, either. Here's a picture of Junior, you guys:



Please keep him in your prayers; you see he gets his language from Z, too!
Originally Posted by dia99
Wow, Dia,

I didn't realize you were such a class act!

I'm familiar with Dr. Gershoff's work, but you can't possibly think that one study (even one done by an affiliate of the APA) is equal in importance to a formal statement by the APA. If that's the case, we could have a contest as to how many links we can post by pediatricians backing up each of our positions. Instead, I have shown you formal statements by the UN, the AAP and the APA. Do you think your professor should be valued higher by society than those collections of task forces assigned by the associations that we, as a nation, repsect so much?

It doesn't appear that you are interested in informing yourself. You are instead heavily invested in believing that spanking is effective, and you know what? I'm going to leave you to it.
Chocolate Curls, you asked me to show you any research, and I did show you some. The paper I linked to had over 30 references to other research that has been done on this matter. I also showed you research from the groups you presented as most "important" to show that even their findings are not proof. Their own research does not find definite links between spanking and anything detrimental. It seems that I am continuing to inform myself, while you are content with attempting to prove your point - something that not even the researchers you cite have done. I don't think any one researcher is more or less important than the other; I continue to read and review both sides and then let my conscience decide. I am content with the choices I make, and I don't have to (or choose to) resort to snide comments or "contests" to help prove my point.

My position remains the same. It would be better, and more honest, if you and others who are against spanking would say something like this: "We don't know if it is helpful, we think it may be harmful, so we don't advise you to do it. Here are some other suggestions of techniques you can use to discipline your children."

And, thank you for the wonderful compliment regarding my joke with Z; I did say that I love sarcasm But, I say this without a drip of it; I pray God's blessings on you and your family, as well as every family represented on the board. I hope that we all will do the best we can, and that our children will only benefit from what we have to offer them in love, support, guidance, and discipline. However you choose to do that in your household, if it is effective, I am happy that your children will be blessed because of it.
People rise to the standard expected of them. GC
mine dont require disipline.

they are always little angels when i let them out of the closet. :angel:angel.gif :angel:angel.gif
Originally Posted by zmanzzzz
You only showed them pictures of two of our babies, Z . Don't be afraid to tell our friends that the closet sometimes doesn't work, either. Here's a picture of Junior, you guys:



Please keep him in your prayers; you see he gets his language from Z, too!
Originally Posted by dia99
Wow, Dia,

I didn't realize you were such a class act!
Originally Posted by Chocolate Curls
BTW,

I wrote that in a joking manner with Zmanzzz, but that is exactly the behavior I see from MOST of the students at schools I've worked with - and the MARJORITY of them are not spanked. They received time-outs, groundings, no Playstation privileges, etc, and I have worked with poor and affluent children/parents. I wonder where they are getting that behavior - perhaps its all the idle time locked in their rooms with no real discipline that makes them so angry, since it's obviously not spankings? Where do they learn to stick up their middle fingers? I grew up never once hearing my parents curse, and I don't curse. I grew up with parents who don't drink, and I don't drink. I grew up with a mom who beat "the devil out of me," and I don't beat my daughter. My point is that I didn't discard good along with the bad, and I hope other parents won't either.
People rise to the standard expected of them. GC
Here is an examination of the word rod in scripture:

http://www.gentlemothering.com/articles/rodstudy.php

Also, for those curious or at least skeptical that grace based/gentle discipline is anything but permissive please take a gander at this piece:

http://www.gentlemothering.com/articles/becky/bj3.php

Like you dia99 I'm a researcher to a fault especially after motherhood. Unlike you however I've met plenty of kids who have been spanked and still use curse words, have no respect, etc. I'm pretty sure spanking is still widespread and yet we have kids shooting up schools, going to prison and raping other kids. What's different? I think aside from the external worldy influences we see a lack of connection and effort from the parents to the kids. It's much easier to beat the kid post-offense than it is to actually walk beside the child and teach him to be a responsible adult. Many parents these days want to teach children ethics/morals, a proper way of living yet think nothing of bending the rules on a day to day basis. Too much listen to what I tell you when the child is really seeing what that parent does.

and here's an article on why time outs may not be the best thing either. I didn't answer the poll because our option is not listed:

http://www.aolff.org/whynotto.htm
Also meant to add that while I research all my options I've the discipline decision was one that weighed heavy on my heart. I definitely think that God led me to something that has worked for our family because what my parents did DID NOT work. We had occasional spankings, many threats, emotionally coercive behavior. Three different temperaments but this method took it's toll on all 3 of us. I became the submissive one that was taken advantage of (including sexual abuse by family/friends), my sister lashed out in an extreme way and to this day is distant from the family and my brother is still young.
I was spanked. I had a bar of soap in my mouth. A belt pulled out but never used. The plastic spoon was pulled out (was used once on my brother because he didn't believe it would be and dared my mom , never dared her again and never did what he had done wrong again).

I would say we were not in a very discplinarian environment. All forms of teaching/discipline were used in manners that were appropriate to the "crime". Our language was great and we got in trouble more for saying "shut up" than any other traditional curse word you could think of. That phrase was off limits in our house but it was something we heard from adults and children more often so it was tougher to hold back when emotionally charged.

I have gone through a large gambit of different forms to try and get through to my children on certain things at different times in their life. I will continue to cycle as I find what works best for them for each occasion and situation. We handle each seperately.
~Two friends, one soul inspired~ anonymous
A Comfort Corner is a space in the common area of a home that is set up to be a retreat for a child (or an adult). It's a place they can go to step out of a situation, take a break, regroup.
Wow, I didn't realize that there was someone out there advocating for this. In my home, we have the sunroom and ds's room where he goes when he's having a tough time. I've always been very careful not to call it a "time-out" because it really isn't. He needs a place to go and calm down and like I posted earlier, ds usually comes back as his sweet self and always apologizes. And it's a genuine apology.

A lot of this is trial and error--finding what works. I just know that spanking doesn't work for us.
This is from dia's link
6. After 10 months of age, one slap to the hand of a stubborn crawler or toddler may be necessary to stop serious misbehavior when distraction and removal have failed. This is particularly the case when the forbidden object is immovable and dangerous, such as a hot oven door or an electrical outlet.


IMO that is crazy - a 10 month old should not be allowed near a hot oven door or an electrical outlet. And if you are slapping his hand in punishment instead of keeping that child well away from a hot oven door, then that is just bad parenting.
To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
I pray none of you ever has to live in a communist state.

Geeky is my hero. She's the true badass. The badass who doesn't even need to be a badass. There aren't enough O's in cool to describe her.
yikes!

Plus, ask nonspanking & spanking parents alike and the one thing they agree on is that a child NEVER stops the first time (I'm speaking about toddlers). Parents who spank make you think that all it takes is one time but in reality they end up spanking multiple times for the same offense.
Marielle,

I have read that link on the "rod," as well as many others. I also have books about spanking that examine both sides. It is difficult to find sources that are unbiased, and even the site you posted is examining the situation from one point of view, which is why I always try to read info from both sides. That is this woman's interpretation of Scripture, which may be valid, and may be how God actually desires her (and you) to discipline in your home.

There are other "good" Christians who do not agree with your interpretation. Bible commentaries, theologians, pastors, etc, who find differently. I will not post anymore articles to this thread, but if you do a google search on "the rod in scripture" or "scriptures about spanking" you will find many resources that do not agree with the interpretation you set forth, as well as some that do. I've read many of them, and it's okay with me that there are different interpetations. "Good" Christians disagree on many points in Scripture - our only important unifier (the thing we must all agree on), imo, is Jesus Christ. Everything up is "up for debate."

There were many things that I disagree with Scripturally, but here are two points I will make about her interpretation that I found flawed when I did my research - just to show you that I have really thought about this, and am not trying to justify my thinking. As I've said before, I at first didn't want to spank because of how I was raised - I had to search for myself.

1. Beat him he shall not die... The author says that this must mean that he is not receiving a physical punishment because he could die from that. I disagree. I believe that God's Word is for His people, and Christian parents are to discipline their children in love (everything we do is to be out of love). If we are beating our children out of built-up anger, frustration, loss of self-control, then yes, we might kill them. If we are "beating" our children out of love, the "blows" will not kill them. Also, using her agument, there should be no more Christian-sponsored death penalty (and I don't think there should be, by using her same argument). Furthermore, I believe this is speaking to a spiritual death instead of physical one. There are numerous places in Scripture where God's word outlines that God is more concerned with our eternal life than our natural lives. THere is even a Scripture that says that is better for our bodies to die so that we can still gain eternal life. So, I think that the Proverb is discussing the spiritual "life" we give our children by discipline and correction.

2. Because the Scriptures say "he" or "him" it must mean that only boys are to be spanked - I think this is flawed for one of the same reasons this author uses to teach against spanking. In the Bible's time, there are very few instances where women were spoken of, period. We were not considered equal. So, most Biblical instructions are written to and about men, especially in the OT. We are no longer bound by the law, but we are under grace. God's Word says that there is no longer male or female, Jew or Gentile. His Word applies to all of us now. If you use the author's argument, there can be no women pastors (there is a Scripture that says this to a specific church), women should sleep outside when they're on their cycle, etc. Furthermore, the author stated that if you still spanked, you should also still be stoning your children to death. Jesus Christ atoned for our spiritual sins by death on the cross. He granted us redemption and eternal life, not pardon from earthly consequences for our actions. Yes, sometimes he does show mercy and not punish us physically (humanly) when we sin. But other times, we acquire diseases, we are thrown in jail, we lose our marriages, etc. I would much rather spank and otherwise discipline my child now, and have her avoid all the pitfalls that come with spiritual death later.

I do agree with the principle of the author, though. We are not bound to spank our children. We are no longer "under" the law, so there is nothing that "has" to be done legalistically. Which is why I don't say that parents need to spank, or parents are wrong if they don't spank. I believe that every word in God's Word is good for instruction, correction.... Every word. You interpret it as you do, and God has given me a different and valid interpretation. I respect both, but am bound to live as I have been shown by the Word of God.
People rise to the standard expected of them. GC

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