View Poll Results: How do you discipline your children?
Grounding/time-outs 2 14.29%
Loss of privileges 4 28.57%
Take away allowance 0 0%
Spanking 5 35.71%
Discuss what the problem is with no punishment 3 21.43%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

How do you discipline your children?

dia99 - you and I disagree on a fundamental use of the word discipline. For me discipline refers to how I instruct my child on a daily basis - proactively and listening intently to his cues. You seem to explain that it's only in reference to punishment doled out as lessons by the parent. I guess that's why we see things so differentl.

Regarding the "he/him" issue I agree - that's what the author is saying. The bible should be read in context and metaphors are used throughout. So why should "the rod" be taken literally as you explained?

Also, part of the reason I looked for an alternative was precisely my relationship with God. I couldn't for the life of me imagine a God so filled with Grace, telling us to love and offer mercy to those around us wanting me to spank this child when there are so many other tools.
This is from dia's link
6. After 10 months of age, one slap to the hand of a stubborn crawler or toddler may be necessary to stop serious misbehavior when distraction and removal have failed. This is particularly the case when the forbidden object is immovable and dangerous, such as a hot oven door or an electrical outlet.


IMO that is crazy - a 10 month old should not be allowed near a hot oven door or an electrical outlet. And if you are slapping his hand in punishment instead of keeping that child well away from a hot oven door, then that is just bad parenting.
Originally Posted by geeky
So,
You have an all day baking and house cleaning day. As a parent you probably wouldn't want to keep your curious and exploring child in a playpen or chair all day. So you let them move around and your child crawls in to see what the parent is doing in the kitchen or looks for the source of the smell. After repeatedly removing the child and redirecting their curiousity they continue to return to the source of question. At somepoint you would have the need to express what it is you are keeping them from right? A light tap on the hand to demonstrate a hurt that would come from touching said item IMO could be a fairly effective manner in teaching. Much better than lettig them touch it and I would think having a sit down conversation with a 10 month old using verbal methods may not work.
~Two friends, one soul inspired~ anonymous
Geeky, I disagree with you about that being bad parenting, but I also think that that line should be read in context:

1. Spanking should be used selectively for clear, deliberate misbehavior, particularly that which arises from a child's persistent defiance of a parent's instruction. It should be used only when the child receives at least as much encouragement and praise for good behavior as correction for problem behavior.

2. Milder forms of discipline, such as verbal correction, time-out, and logical consequences, should be used initially, followed by spanking when noncompliance persists. Spanking has shown to be an effective method of enforcing time-out with the child who refuses to comply.

3. Only a parent (or in exceptional situations, someone else who has an intimate relationship of authority with the child) should administer a spanking.

4. Spanking should not be administered on impulse or when a parent is out of control. A spanking should always be motivated by love for the purpose of teaching and correcting, never for revenge.

5. Spanking is inappropriate before 15 months of age and is usually not necessary until after 18 months. It should be less necessary after 6 years, and rarely, if ever, used after 10 years of age.

6. After 10 months of age, one slap to the hand of a stubborn crawler or toddler may be necessary to stop serious misbehavior when distraction and removal have failed. This is particularly the case when the forbidden object is immovable and dangerous, such as a hot oven door or an electrical outlet. He is not saying that the child actually got to the stove, he is saying that you should try this if you see that your child is consistently trying to get there, after you have tried to redirect him.

7. Spanking should always be a planned action, not a reaction, by the parent and should follow a deliberate procedure.

* The child should be forewarned of the spanking consequence for designated problem behaviors.
* Spanking should always be administered in private (bedroom or restroom) to avoid public humiliation or embarassment.
* One or two spanks should be administered to the buttocks. This is followed by embracing the child and calmly reviewing the offense and the desired behavior in an effort to reestablish a warm relationship.

8. Spanking should leave only transient redness of the skin and should never cause physical injury.

9. If properly administered spankings are ineffective, other appropriate disciplinary responses should be tried, or the parent should seek professional help. Parents should never increase the intensity of spankings.
I agree with everything he wrote, including that only people who have an intimate relationship with the child (nonparents) should spank the child. He is advocating the use of spanking as a tool to discipline children, to parents who choose to spank. He is not saying that parents should spank. He is saying that if you do, do it safely and responsibly, and for a reason. That is the same way you should provide any type of correction.
People rise to the standard expected of them. GC
Been there, done that. If I HAD to do baking all day and hubby wasn't around to take care of the kiddo then I'd just do what I always do. I put Ian in the mei tai (asian carrier/sling) on my back and I bake. Most times I get things done during naps. If my child is having a particularly bad day then the baking can wait.
So,
You have an all day baking and house cleaning day. As a parent you probably wouldn't want to keep your curious and exploring child in a playpen or chair all day. So you let them move around and your child crawls in to see what the parent is doing in the kitchen or looks for the source of the smell. After repeatedly removing the child and redirecting their curiousity they continue to return to the source of question. At somepoint you would have the need to express what it is you are keeping them from right? A light tap on the hand to demonstrate a hurt that would come from touching said item IMO could be a fairly effective manner in teaching. Much better than lettig them touch it and I would think having a sit down conversation with a 10 month old using verbal methods may not work.
Originally Posted by GuardianB
You don't have to have the oven door open all day. When you open it you make sure your curious child is well away from the oven door, even in a playpen if necessary. When you close it again you let your child crawl around.
And my issue here is not with the corporal punishment. My issue is with age-inappropriate expectations. I would be just as if the article suggested a timeout to a 10 month old that wanted to touch a hot oven. A 10 month old lacks the impulse control to stay away from the oven and remember that they need to stay away from the oven, no matter how many times you smack their hand or discuss it with them or put them in a corner. If distraction has failed then you better remove that child, because that is the only thing that will keep them from the oven at that age.

While I don't think I will spank my kids, I don't automatically think it's abuse. I think if one were to decide to use spanking, the rest of the guidelines in that article make sense. It's just that one line that made me
To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
I pray none of you ever has to live in a communist state.

Geeky is my hero. She's the true badass. The badass who doesn't even need to be a badass. There aren't enough O's in cool to describe her.
dia99 - you and I disagree on a fundamental use of the word discipline. For me discipline refers to how I instruct my child on a daily basis - proactively and listening intently to his cues.
Originally Posted by marielle448
I agree that discipline is not punishment, and have said as much in my posts. I agree that discipline is a daily endeavor. Discipline may include punishment, but discipline is instruction, correction and sometimes punishment, all used together, imo. Dia is disciplined to sit down everyday when she comes home from school and do her homework. If she fails to do that, after 1 1/2 years of having homework, correction will come in. If she fails after that, she may receive a punishment - no television that afternoon, can't go outside to play, etc. It is all a part of discipline in my home.

This thread does focus on corrective discipline techniques, instead of the overall definition of discipline, so my posts are geared to corrective techniques, not preventative measures. I don't think any parent on here just waits for the child to do something bad so that they can spank him. You can be an active and involved parent, as I am, and still have to use corrective discipline. God is active and involved in our lives, and He still has to discipline and correct, and sometimes allow "punishment" or consequences because we know what we're supposed to do and choose not to do it. Our relationship with our children is supposed to mirror God's relationship with us.


Sorry I am on a posting frenzy right now; I may not have much time to come back to the boards today, so I wanted to respond while I have time. Hopefully, I will have some time.
People rise to the standard expected of them. GC
I don't believe God allows punishment. God allows worldy consequences to happen even when He's forgiven us but he doesn't punish us. How many times have you sinned and not received a worldy punishment/consequence? God's response to sin (in the new testament and our new covenent) is removal of His presence but that's because He can't be near sin.
But you are not letting the child explore. You are limiting where he can go. Yes he is then by his mother but how is he learning to crawl and discover. Many parents feel this is just as valuable and have issues with child "restraining" devices; gates, seats, swings, pens, slings, etc. I have always let my kids roam and when they reach a point that I am not comfortable with, warn them of the danger. As they get older I do the same but am able to place the restrictions prior to them starting.
~Two friends, one soul inspired~ anonymous
Like Geeky said, the oven door is not open constantly and who said boundaries are bad? They're not, in fact they allow a child to feel secure that you will respond consistently. I gate off our kitchen. If I have to open the oven door and we're alone then I just go in the kitchen quickly and Ian can see me while I'm in there. Then I go back out and we continue with our day.

While I agree that exploration is key, setting your child up for success is the biggest key. Why leave out stuff that's not safe for my child or would upset me if he broke it at a young age like 10 months? I can just as easily put up the phone instead of leaving it at his level until he's old enough to understand that.
I don't believe God allows punishment. God allows worldy consequences to happen even when He's forgiven us but he doesn't punish us. How many times have you sinned and not received a worldy punishment/consequence? God's response to sin (in the new testament and our new covenent) is removal of His presence but that's because He can't be near sin.
Originally Posted by marielle448
God has punished. He sent plagues, pestilence, disease. He did not allow the children of Israel to see the promised land (only their children). He did not allow Moses to see the promised land. There are MANY times in Scripture were God himself is speaking and he is warning His people what will happen to them if they don't turn away from their wrong, even unto death. And God is omnipresent, so we cannot be removed from His presence. We can be out of fellowship (intimate relationship) with Him, but He is stll there. I have sinned many times and not received a "worldly" consequence other than guilt. God's mercy has covered my sins, and kept away the consequence many, many times, and I am truly grateful for that.
People rise to the standard expected of them. GC
An oven door can be hot even if not open so if you are cooking all day it will be hot all day. It is not something you can put up. It is probably better to explain/show when they are crawling than when they are running what that oven can do to them.
~Two friends, one soul inspired~ anonymous
again until it is age appropriate for my child to learn the safety issue of an oven door being hot then I keep the gate to the door up. Even now Ian realizes that the oven door is a "no touch" item. He's 18mos old and I did it without spanking.

Dia I referred to the new covenant. Not the old covenant which God had with the children of Israel.
God has punished. He sent plagues, pestilence, disease. He did not allow the children of Israel to see the promised land (only their children). He did not allow Moses to see the promised land. There are MANY times in Scripture were God himself is speaking and he is warning His people what will happen to them if they don't turn away from their wrong, even unto death.

And God is omnipresent, so we cannot be removed from His presence. We can be out of fellowship (intimate relationship) with Him, but He is stll there. I have sinned many times and not received a "worldly" consequence other than guilt. God's mercy has covered my sins, and kept away the consequence many, many times, and I am truly grateful for that.
Originally Posted by dia99
This second part I separated from your paragraph. Can you explain how God's mercy can be applicable to us but not our kids? Are we not to model a relationship with God the way that God calls even the marriage relationship to be a model of Christ and the church?
I used the slap on the hand technique for one to show sting and it worked as well. It was not abusive or harsh. Both methods work.
~Two friends, one soul inspired~ anonymous
I guess I'm having a hard time understanding - did you just one day stand in front of the stove and slap his hand to teach him a lesson? Was it done after you were exasperated from redirection? In Dia's link it says not to spank in anger so I'm wondering when people do spank?
Marielle, I first just want to thank you for keeping it civil (as well as others on this thread). It can sometimes get a little harried when people are emotionally invested in situations. And yes, I do think that as human beings we should be concerned for the welfare of all children, not just our own, so I do understand and agree with the strong sentiments against abuse of children in any form.

That said, I don't believe God changed with the new covenant. The veil was lifted, and we were granted access to His throne through Jesus Christ, and redemption from our sins through faith in Him. Nowhere does it read that there will no longer be earthly consequences, either that God sends or allows. The only punishment we no longer receive is death (spiritual). It seems we just have vastly different interpretations of the Bible. I just told my pastor this past weekend that I appreciate other points of view, and I don't think that on most things, there is only one "right" interpretation of Scripture. Some things, yes. But, as I am not God, I can not even be sure about those things. I can just try to read the whole Bible and glean wisdom and instruction from all of it, OT and NT.

Thank you for sharing your views. Hopefully you helped some parent who already knows/feels that spanking is not what God's calling is for his/her home. I pray that I was able to do the same thing for someone who maybe felt like they should spank and didn't know how to go about it in a responsible manner. The Bible does not give us a step-by-step for parenting, so I am happy that there has been research done to help me better carry out God's plan for my family. People have to first have options in order to choose, so hopefully something that was written will help someone make the right choice for them, just as the same and similar research helped me when I became a parent.
People rise to the standard expected of them. GC
just to clarify I don't argue that we receive earthly consequences. Children should also experience logical consequences to their actions - it's a learning process. I just wouldn't tack on punishment (personally) as an arbitrary measure of driving the point home, kwim?

I know God hasn't changed but Jesus did bring about a new covenant. In the parable of the servant Jesus shows us that it's wrong not to extend His love & mercy to our bretheren. The servant had been forgiven a debt by his master yet he didn't forgive his brother's debt. Our children are our brothers in Christ as well and I guess I'm just rambling now.
This is from dia's link
6. After 10 months of age, one slap to the hand of a stubborn crawler or toddler may be necessary to stop serious misbehavior when distraction and removal have failed. This is particularly the case when the forbidden object is immovable and dangerous, such as a hot oven door or an electrical outlet.


IMO that is crazy - a 10 month old should not be allowed near a hot oven door or an electrical outlet. And if you are slapping his hand in punishment instead of keeping that child well away from a hot oven door, then that is just bad parenting.
Originally Posted by geeky
I think it's just the opposite. However, let me clear up the fact that I would never spank my 8 month old. She is way too young, and I can't see any reason why I'd ever have to raise a hand to her. I do believe in using many other methods, and trying to teach and explain to children rather than spanking them. And although I use the word spanking, I don't mean it in the sense of hard "slapping" or "hitting", cause both of those words sound like something that is more forceful than I would use. In the case of a 10 month old going near a stove. Spanking them for this is not the right answer. But you can't just keep children away from what they're going to want to get into. That doesn't teach them anything. Putting your trash can on top of the counter so that your toddler can't get into it, may be easier for you, but it's teaching the child that they don't have to adapt to their environment b/c their environment will adapt to them. That's a horrible habit to get into. It will cause a very spoiled and selfish child, and carry well into adulthood. You need to be near your children, and always watch them so they don't get hurt, but when they get near a hot stove, they need to be taught that it's hot, and they're not to go near it. Guardian B is totally right. Trying to keep a toddler away from something they're intrested in is impossible. Teaching them that it's dangerous is a better way.
~ the artist formerly known as babywavy ~

Please excuse any typos. For the time being, we are blaming it on my computer.
God has punished. He sent plagues, pestilence, disease. He did not allow the children of Israel to see the promised land (only their children). He did not allow Moses to see the promised land. There are MANY times in Scripture were God himself is speaking and he is warning His people what will happen to them if they don't turn away from their wrong, even unto death.

And God is omnipresent, so we cannot be removed from His presence. We can be out of fellowship (intimate relationship) with Him, but He is stll there. I have sinned many times and not received a "worldly" consequence other than guilt. God's mercy has covered my sins, and kept away the consequence many, many times, and I am truly grateful for that.
Originally Posted by dia99
This second part I separated from your paragraph. Can you explain how God's mercy can be applicable to us but not our kids? Are we not to model a relationship with God the way that God calls even the marriage relationship to be a model of Christ and the church?
Originally Posted by marielle448
I'm sorry - I was typing while you wrote this. Read my previous post as my last . I had put in this post that I show mercy to Dia, but I took it out - I was trying to have a short(er) post for a change . We are to show mercy to our children, and I do. God does sometimes show mercy, but other times he allows or sends consequences to "teach" us, and to get us to turn back to Him. I try to employ both, but as I don't have God's wisdom, I'm sure I sometimes show mercy when I should have corrected, and sometimes correct when I should show mercy. That is why I continue to pray and ask for guidance, and research/try different methods so that I can be a more effective parent with all of my tools.
People rise to the standard expected of them. GC
babywavy - do you have a car seat in your car? You adapted to having a child in your life. I don't put up my trash, again my son has learned through example & modeling what the appropriate use for the can is.

Do you leave your outlets exposed for an under age 2 toddler? If not then you've adapted. Did you buy a crib for baby? If yes, then you've adapted.

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