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Old 08-28-2008, 01:19 PM   #21
 
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cympreni, i think you could compare this situation to a drunk driver who kills their own child or family member. but i think the level of negligence is much higher for the drunk driver. and they have direct control over the car in that case. but it's true, i don't have a problem with putting away that person.
See I disagree. Someone who owns a gun is responsible for keeping it out of the wrong hands. Presumably the owner was not drunk and their judgement was not impaired, so I see no excuse for their negligence.
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Old 08-28-2008, 01:26 PM   #22
 
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We as a society always say that child welfare and safety is a high priority, but our actions speak differently. If we really want to protect children, we need to start putting our money where our mouth is and stop giving people the benefit of the doubt just because they successfully used their reproductive organs.
So what do you suggest we do? I'm not being snarky, just curious.
Give more money to programs that protect children. It's been a well known fact that social workers and child welfare systems have been overworked forever. Give them the money they need to do their jobs effectively.

With minor physical abuse. You take anger management, counseling and parenting classes stuff along that lines and monitored. Second time, second time you lose your kids for a while, third you lose them forever. Same thing for neglect. In this country, there is no reason for a kid to go hungry or not have proper clothing. But not everyone knows what kind of resources are out there for families in need.

If you hit your children causing serious injury requiring medical attention, or serious neglect, then no second chance, you lose your kids permenantley, go to jail and pay support payments along with their medical and therapy bills.

It just drives me insane, you hit an adult it's assault, but hit a kid, and too many cases just a slap on the wrist.

I am so unbelievably sick of hearing tragic stories of children killed by their parents then learning that that child had been removed several times before. Family is important, but not that important.

Google Tajanay Bailey, an Indiana case from last thanksgiving. I've mentioned her before, but her story really affected me. It still makes me cry just to think about it. She was a beautiful 3 year old angel, who probably thousands of people would give everything to be able to call her their daughter. She had been removed several times for abuse and neglect and spent most of her life in foster care. They were actually in the process of permanently removing her, when she got a new social worker, who decided family was too important to give up. Despite the fact they hadn't gone through the required steps, and were both unemployed, they sent her home for a 30 day trial period. Tajanay didn't last a week. Her "parents" systematically tortured her to death all because she wet the bed.

Here's s blog her foster mother made in her memory. What really makes this case tragic, is it was 100% preventable. The evidence was there, plain as day. People failed Tajanay on every level, from the parents who didn't take care of her, to social workers making bad choices, hospitals not reporting injuries, to police reports of domestic abuse going unnoticed, to the judge who allowed her to be returned, to the neighbors and family members who have to have known something.

These things should not be tolerated. We spend billions of dollars on various programs and stuff that don't really matter. Billions on a war in another land, on our own defense, but when it comes to protecting the most defenseless in our own borders we are seriously lacking.
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Old 08-28-2008, 01:34 PM   #23
 
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I don't think a public education campaign would do squat. I think the only preventative measures that would work for this particular problem would be to either outlaw guns, or require people to take intelligence tests before they're allowed to procreate..
Not a fan of the Constitution, are you?
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Old 08-28-2008, 01:39 PM   #24
 
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Plus doesn't England have really strict gun laws? And yet - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...ng-908215.html
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Old 08-28-2008, 01:50 PM   #25
 
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I don't think a public education campaign would do squat. I think the only preventative measures that would work for this particular problem would be to either outlaw guns, or require people to take intelligence tests before they're allowed to procreate..
Not a fan of the Constitution, are you?
I am. I was being sarcastic. Although in theory the testing idea is a good one though, but more then likely wouldn't work in reality. too much power, who's going to judge the judgers etc.
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Old 08-28-2008, 02:00 PM   #26
 
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I don't think a public education campaign would do squat. I think the only preventative measures that would work for this particular problem would be to either outlaw guns, or require people to take intelligence tests before they're allowed to procreate..
Not a fan of the Constitution, are you?
I am. I was being sarcastic. Although in theory the testing idea is a good one though, but more then likely wouldn't work in reality. too much power, who's going to judge the judgers etc.
Are you serious? So basically it would be illegal to have sex unless you pass a test?
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Old 08-28-2008, 02:10 PM   #27
 
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Not a fan of the Constitution, are you?
I am. I was being sarcastic. Although in theory the testing idea is a good one though, but more then likely wouldn't work in reality. too much power, who's going to judge the judgers etc.
Are you serious? So basically it would be illegal to have sex unless you pass a test?
I said IN THEORY but it wouldn't work! Haven't you ever heard a joke about requiring an IQ test for something?
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Old 08-28-2008, 02:18 PM   #28
 
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Are you serious? So basically it would be illegal to have sex unless you pass a test?
Not a bad idea actually.

I invite all of you to come work on a pediatric ward some night. Take care of a couple babies who have been beat to the point of having retinal hemorrahages and subdural hematomas. Then take care of their parents too who are still allowed in the patient's room.

You'll form an opinion real quick.

Yep, laws are entirely too lax.
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Old 08-28-2008, 02:23 PM   #29
 
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cympreni, i think you could compare this situation to a drunk driver who kills their own child or family member. but i think the level of negligence is much higher for the drunk driver. and they have direct control over the car in that case. but it's true, i don't have a problem with putting away that person.
See I disagree. Someone who owns a gun is responsible for keeping it out of the wrong hands. Presumably the owner was not drunk and their judgement was not impaired, so I see no excuse for their negligence.
ITA.

ETA: If you're going to be a gun owner and a parent, it's just part of the gig to keep the guns away from the kids so things like this don't happen. If you can't be trusted to do that, maybe you shouldn't be one or the other.
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Old 08-28-2008, 02:24 PM   #30
 
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More food for thought

In this country you need a license:
to drive a car
catch a fish
own a dog
hunt
own a gun
to get married plus medical testing for that
to work in a number of professional fields

ETA: AND we make people jump through hoops with high expectations that a large % of people couldn't meet to adopt a child

But any ******* psycho, or crackhead can have a kid if their equipment works.

If that's not ironic, I don't know what is.

Last edited by cympreni; 08-28-2008 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 08-28-2008, 02:32 PM   #31
 
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Originally Posted by cympreni View Post
More food for thought

In this country you need a license:
to drive a car
catch a fish
own a dog
hunt
own a gun
to get married plus medical testing for that
to work in a number of professional fields

But any ******* can have a kid.

If that's not ironic, I don't know what is.
I agree with you, but the difference is that there's no way to stop people from having kids. There's no way to prevent people from having sex or to force them to use BC, and you certainly can't force people to have abortions.
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Old 08-28-2008, 02:36 PM   #32
 
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Originally Posted by cympreni View Post
More food for thought

In this country you need a license:
to drive a car
catch a fish
own a dog
hunt
own a gun
to get married plus medical testing for that
to work in a number of professional fields

But any ******* can have a kid.

If that's not ironic, I don't know what is.
I agree with you, but the difference is that there's no way to stop people from having kids. There's no way to prevent people from having sex or to force them to use BC, and you certainly can't force people to have abortions.
Forced sterilizations maybe? lol
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Old 08-28-2008, 02:37 PM   #33
 
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Originally Posted by cympreni View Post
More food for thought

In this country you need a license:
to drive a car
catch a fish
own a dog
hunt
own a gun
to get married plus medical testing for that
to work in a number of professional fields

But any ******* can have a kid.

If that's not ironic, I don't know what is.
I agree with you, but the difference is that there's no way to stop people from having kids. There's no way to prevent people from having sex or to force them to use BC, and you certainly can't force people to have abortions.
Like I said it wouldn't work.

we can't really prevent people from doing some of the above actions legally.

Last edited by cympreni; 08-28-2008 at 02:40 PM. Reason: for clairity
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Old 08-28-2008, 02:43 PM   #34
 
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Originally Posted by PixieCurl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cympreni View Post
More food for thought

In this country you need a license:
to drive a car
catch a fish
own a dog
hunt
own a gun
to get married plus medical testing for that
to work in a number of professional fields

But any ******* can have a kid.

If that's not ironic, I don't know what is.
I agree with you, but the difference is that there's no way to stop people from having kids. There's no way to prevent people from having sex or to force them to use BC, and you certainly can't force people to have abortions.
hitler was rather fond of force sterilization. the romani people were long after hitler was dead by the *civilized* west.

yeah stupid people shouldn't have kids, but our government shouldn't have that much control.

i could get into why we shouldnt give individuals so much money for children on the welfare system...but im behaving
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Old 08-28-2008, 02:45 PM   #35
 
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Just wanted to add that I was kidding when I said "forced sterilizations"....hence the winky smiley.
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Old 08-28-2008, 02:51 PM   #36
 
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I have a friend. He's a good guy. Married. Full time job. Home owner. Yadda yadda.
He was rejected when he tried to adopt a dog. He laughs about it now. He say's he could have 5 kids running around with runny noses and 7-11 feet, but nope, they won't let him adopt a dog.
By the way - he bought a dog. She's very sweet and super spoiled.
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Old 08-28-2008, 03:19 PM   #37
 
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Sorry...but it's NEVER, EVER an accident when a toddler kills himself with a loaded gun...


---------------------------------------------------

Coroner: W.Pa. toddler dead after shooting self

The Associated Press

SIGEL, Pa.A western Pennsylvania toddler is dead after he picked up an unattended handgun and shot himself in the head.
Elk County Coroner Louis Radkowski says 3-year-old Trey Rosenberger, who was from Beaver County, was at a camp in Millstone Township with family and friends and adults who were target shooting on Monday.
Radkowski says the gun was left loaded and unattended on a chair when the boy picked up the gun around 11 a.m. The death has been ruled an accident. State Police are investigating. No charges have been filed.
It says that charges have not been filed...not that they WILL NOT be filed. There is a chance that once the DA reviews the files sent over from the police, they may decide to press charges later. To me...it just read like chrages havn't been filed yet....not that the parents won't be held responsible at all.
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Old 08-28-2008, 03:32 PM   #38
 
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Yeah it is too bad that stupid people are able to have kids. They should be hard-wired when they are born so their reproductive system only works when their brain does. But unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.

It's just a sad fact of life though and everything seems ironic these days...
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Old 08-28-2008, 03:58 PM   #39
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I sometimes wish a temporary plague would come along that would inhibit women from becoming pregnant. A cure would eventually come, but if there was a time that people couldn't reproduce maybe people would be more solemn and take it more seriously (maybe not but I'd like to see how people would recact if suddenly they couldn't make babies).

How hard is to use birth control or give your kid up if you aren't capable of making DUH! parenting choices like not leaving a loaded gun around kids. Or better yet abstain. Sex isn't necessary, especially if you aren't ready to deal with the consequences. I haven't done the dillyoh dance since 06' and guess what, I haven't died yet! I may not be the peppiest girl on the block, but sex is overrated to a certain exent.
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Old 08-28-2008, 04:01 PM   #40
 
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I sometimes wish a temporary plague would come along that would inhibit women from becoming pregnant. A cure would eventually come, but if there was a time that people couldn't reproduce maybe people would be more solemn and take it more seriously (maybe not but I'd like to see how people would recact if suddenly they couldn't make babies).

How hard is to use birth control or give your kid up if you aren't capable of making DUH! parenting choices like not leaving a loaded gun around kids. Or better yet abstain. Sex isn't necessary, especially if you aren't ready to deal with the consequences. I haven't done the dillyoh dance since 06' and guess what, I haven't died yet! I may not be the peppiest girl on the block, but sex is overrated to a certain exent.
Holy crap I just spit coke at the computer screen! That was hilarious!
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