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Old 08-28-2008, 11:43 PM   #21
 
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Not only did I reply to just her, I replied to ALL. It's the same woman who keeps sending her these tacky emails that she insists on sending to me. I told her last weekend that I got 719 viruses on my computer, so I would not be opening any forwarded emails, but she is still sending this crap to me. She told me that when she sees a pic of Obama she gets an awful feeling. My sister & her husband (who go to the same church & live next door to her) told her they feel the same way. They think he is the next anti-christ. I have tried to educate these people, but it does no good.
Oh no! How horrible. I guess all that you can do is keep fighting the good fight and doing what you can to present different, opposite views.
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Old 08-28-2008, 11:52 PM   #22
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I don't agree with a lot of Omaba's political views and his plans for this country but I fail to see how the color of his skin plays into his ability to govern. It's a very sad narrow mind who will judge someone based on looks/race alone.
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Old 08-29-2008, 12:00 AM   #23
 
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Does she know how racist that is?
How do you view that as racist? Last time I checked, George W. Bush's photograph has been juxtaposed with a photograph of a chimpanzee for the last 8 years, as well. It's not racist in that situation, but it is when it happens to Michelle Obama?

I will agree that it is rather tacky, though.


ETA: I have a feeling I'm going to get flamed for saying this, but the double standard just drives me nuts.
I'm not going to flame you. Just going to point out that there is absolutely no double standard at all. Not even close to one. Not even a whiff or scent.

There is another thread going right now entitled Michelle Obama that has digressed in a way that sheds light on precisely why the image of Michelle Obama next to an ape has racist undertones, overtones and directly smacks of racism. Maybe you don't personally hold the racist views that would equate dark (or darker relative to european) skinned people as subhuman, primitive, violent, lesser developed and apelike. But there are people who think that way now, and historically there are many people who have thought it before and acted on it to justify slavery, lynching, etc.. etc.. etc..

George Bush being compared to an ape is a commentary on his underdeveloped intelligence and possibly his features, I'm not sure if his features are simian or not. But there is no skin color baggage (present or historical) to accompany those images in stark contrast to Michelle Obama.

I'm not making any of this up or even stretching much to make a fairly obvious point. I'm not sure why it isn't obvious to you either. Just because you may not hold racist views shouldn't mean that you can't spot or realize obvious racism. (ditto for others forms of identity based hatred and abuse against gays, the disabled, women, other minorities, the elderly, etc.. etc.. etc..)
I'm not sure why you assume that I am not aware of why this could be seen as racist by some people. I understand all of the history that you mentioned and am not ignorant of the fact that the intent of the image was possibly a racist jab at Michelle Obama. However, I am just curious why someone automatically viewed this image as racist, whereas for GWB it is to point out his "underdeveloped intelligence" and "features." How do we know that the image's intent wasn't to say that Michelle Obama isn't smart and makes funny faces?

Again, I understand the history and "skin color baggage" that goes along with the juxtaposition of the Michelle Obama image, but I really think it's unfair to say there is absolutely no double standard coming into play here.
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Old 08-29-2008, 12:06 AM   #24
 
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How do you view that as racist? Last time I checked, George W. Bush's photograph has been juxtaposed with a photograph of a chimpanzee for the last 8 years, as well. It's not racist in that situation, but it is when it happens to Michelle Obama?

I will agree that it is rather tacky, though.


ETA: I have a feeling I'm going to get flamed for saying this, but the double standard just drives me nuts.
I'm not going to flame you. Just going to point out that there is absolutely no double standard at all. Not even close to one. Not even a whiff or scent.

There is another thread going right now entitled Michelle Obama that has digressed in a way that sheds light on precisely why the image of Michelle Obama next to an ape has racist undertones, overtones and directly smacks of racism. Maybe you don't personally hold the racist views that would equate dark (or darker relative to european) skinned people as subhuman, primitive, violent, lesser developed and apelike. But there are people who think that way now, and historically there are many people who have thought it before and acted on it to justify slavery, lynching, etc.. etc.. etc..

George Bush being compared to an ape is a commentary on his underdeveloped intelligence and possibly his features, I'm not sure if his features are simian or not. But there is no skin color baggage (present or historical) to accompany those images in stark contrast to Michelle Obama.

I'm not making any of this up or even stretching much to make a fairly obvious point. I'm not sure why it isn't obvious to you either. Just because you may not hold racist views shouldn't mean that you can't spot or realize obvious racism. (ditto for others forms of identity based hatred and abuse against gays, the disabled, women, other minorities, the elderly, etc.. etc.. etc..)
I'm not sure why you assume that I am not aware of why this could be seen as racist by some people. I understand all of the history that you mentioned and am not ignorant of the fact that the intent of the image was possibly a racist jab at Michelle Obama. However, I am just curious why someone automatically viewed this image as racist, whereas for GWB it is to point out his "underdeveloped intelligence" and "features." How do we know that the image's intent wasn't to say that Michelle Obama isn't smart and makes funny faces?

Again, I understand the history and "skin color baggage" that goes along with the juxtaposition of the Michelle Obama image, but I really think it's unfair to say there is absolutely no double standard coming into play here.
We know the very likely intent of the message because Michelle Obama is smart. She is accomplished and she doesn't play the folksy fool like W. She doesn't grimace and carry on like he does. If anything, she's been compared in style and comportment to Jackie O.

What we also know is that the boarderhoppers of this world have a serious grudge against her as *ugly* and not sufficiently fititng the profile of what *a first lady should look like* How much of that reaction do you think has to do with her race? In context, where would you put the odds of that image being racist? Just curious.
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Old 08-29-2008, 12:09 AM   #25
 
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I'm curious, too.
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Old 08-29-2008, 12:43 AM   #26
 
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I *really* don't think someone who compares Michelle Obama to a chimpanzee is doing it because they think she's stupid or she's making a funny face. Those might be factors, but they're smaller factors, or perhaps used as excuses to allow a person to be more vocally racist without getting slammed as badly for it.

(This is just my opinion based on some racist jack*sses I've encountered. I had some idiot tell me that he believed black people are descended from apes, and white people come from "the ocean." And in his mind, somehow that made white people better.)

As for Bush, there's the "monkeys are dumb" perception, and people have compared him to monkeys because of the faces he makes.

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Old 08-29-2008, 06:12 AM   #27
 
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Does she know how racist that is?
How do you view that as racist? Last time I checked, George W. Bush's photograph has been juxtaposed with a photograph of a chimpanzee for the last 8 years, as well. It's not racist in that situation, but it is when it happens to Michelle Obama?

I will agree that it is rather tacky, though.


ETA: I have a feeling I'm going to get flamed for saying this, but the double standard just drives me nuts.
It's not a double standard. Not to be snarky, but are you not at all aware that black people have been compared to apes, gorillas, and monkeys by knuckledraggers who equate black people with these animals? It's completely racist, and there's no justifying it. While I'm bothered by the comparison of GWB to a chimp, it's not the same. It's just not.

I don't mean this as an attack on you, but I just can't believe that it has to even be explained that it's not right to compare a black person to a monkey. I don't like MO, but none of her facial expressions, mannerisms, anything warrant this comparison. It's totally based on her color, and that's disgusting.
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Old 08-29-2008, 06:19 AM   #28
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Does she know how racist that is?
How do you view that as racist? Last time I checked, George W. Bush's photograph has been juxtaposed with a photograph of a chimpanzee for the last 8 years, as well. It's not racist in that situation, but it is when it happens to Michelle Obama?

I will agree that it is rather tacky, though.


ETA: I have a feeling I'm going to get flamed for saying this, but the double standard just drives me nuts.
It's not a double standard. Not to be snarky, but are you not at all aware that black people have been compared to apes, gorillas, and monkeys by knuckledraggers who equate black people with these animals? It's completely racist, and there's no justifying it. While I'm bothered by the comparison of GWB to a chimp, it's not the same. It's just not.

I don't mean this as an attack on you, but I just can't believe that it has to even be explained that it's not right to compare a black person to a monkey. I don't like MO, but none of her facial expressions, mannerisms, anything warrant this comparison. It's totally based on her color, and that's disgusting.
One has more stigma to it but I think it's wrong and degrading to compare Bush to a chimp but not in the same way/level it is to compare Mrs. Ombama. Heck, it's just wrong and degrading to compare anyone to an animal.
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Old 08-29-2008, 06:43 AM   #29
 
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How do you view that as racist? Last time I checked, George W. Bush's photograph has been juxtaposed with a photograph of a chimpanzee for the last 8 years, as well. It's not racist in that situation, but it is when it happens to Michelle Obama?

I will agree that it is rather tacky, though.


ETA: I have a feeling I'm going to get flamed for saying this, but the double standard just drives me nuts.
It's not a double standard. Not to be snarky, but are you not at all aware that black people have been compared to apes, gorillas, and monkeys by knuckledraggers who equate black people with these animals? It's completely racist, and there's no justifying it. While I'm bothered by the comparison of GWB to a chimp, it's not the same. It's just not.

I don't mean this as an attack on you, but I just can't believe that it has to even be explained that it's not right to compare a black person to a monkey. I don't like MO, but none of her facial expressions, mannerisms, anything warrant this comparison. It's totally based on her color, and that's disgusting.
One has more stigma to it but I think it's wrong and degrading to compare Bush to a chimp but not in the same way/level it is to compare Mrs. Ombama. Heck, it's just wrong and degrading to compare anyone to an animal.
Strong like a bull/ox? Graceful as a gazelle? Sexy cat eyes? not to keep derailing this thread, but why is so bad to have animal like attributes? I for one think animals are amazing, and apes are far more intelligent and adapted than most people know. Maybe THEY'RE offended to be compared to humans for all we know.

Yes, I understand the negative association that some people have with apes, but since I believe in evolution, then all people/races are related to apes. To the original point of the photo (which I haven't seen), it is wrong to mock or demean someone to try to hurt others, but the point of the comparison is, well, pointless.
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Old 08-29-2008, 06:46 AM   #30
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It's not a double standard. Not to be snarky, but are you not at all aware that black people have been compared to apes, gorillas, and monkeys by knuckledraggers who equate black people with these animals? It's completely racist, and there's no justifying it. While I'm bothered by the comparison of GWB to a chimp, it's not the same. It's just not.

I don't mean this as an attack on you, but I just can't believe that it has to even be explained that it's not right to compare a black person to a monkey. I don't like MO, but none of her facial expressions, mannerisms, anything warrant this comparison. It's totally based on her color, and that's disgusting.
One has more stigma to it but I think it's wrong and degrading to compare Bush to a chimp but not in the same way/level it is to compare Mrs. Ombama. Heck, it's just wrong and degrading to compare anyone to an animal.
Strong like a bull/ox? Graceful as a gazelle? Sexy cat eyes? not to keep derailing this thread, but why is so bad to have animal like attributes? I for one think animals are amazing, and apes are far more intelligent and adapted than most people know. Maybe THEY'RE offended to be compared to humans for all we know.

Yes, I understand the negative association that some people have with apes, but since I believe in evolution, then all people/races are related to apes. To the original point of the photo (which I haven't seen), it is wrong to mock or demean someone to try to hurt others, but the point of the comparison is, well, pointless.
To degrade people and dehumanize them is wrong.

I guess it's like what I said on the I Miss thread, I'm tired of people flinging around insults like monkeys flinging poo at the zoo. It's just an expression and not meant to target one single person and say they're less of a human being due to their animalish (physical) tendencies.

I'm going to seriously end up putting my foot in my mouth or back peddling. I will stop typing now.

Last edited by Speckla; 08-29-2008 at 07:02 AM. Reason: clarified my clarification.
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Old 08-29-2008, 07:01 AM   #31
 
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It's not a double standard. Not to be snarky, but are you not at all aware that black people have been compared to apes, gorillas, and monkeys by knuckledraggers who equate black people with these animals? It's completely racist, and there's no justifying it. While I'm bothered by the comparison of GWB to a chimp, it's not the same. It's just not.

I don't mean this as an attack on you, but I just can't believe that it has to even be explained that it's not right to compare a black person to a monkey. I don't like MO, but none of her facial expressions, mannerisms, anything warrant this comparison. It's totally based on her color, and that's disgusting.
One has more stigma to it but I think it's wrong and degrading to compare Bush to a chimp but not in the same way/level it is to compare Mrs. Ombama. Heck, it's just wrong and degrading to compare anyone to an animal.

Yes, I understand the negative association that some people have with apes, but since I believe in evolution, then all people/races are related to apes. To the original point of the photo (which I haven't seen), it is wrong to mock or demean someone to try to hurt others, but the point of the comparison is, well, pointless.
But the point of comparing a black person to a monkey is to say there is a lack of evolution. It's no compliment.
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Old 08-29-2008, 07:15 AM   #32
 
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One has more stigma to it but I think it's wrong and degrading to compare Bush to a chimp but not in the same way/level it is to compare Mrs. Ombama. Heck, it's just wrong and degrading to compare anyone to an animal.

Yes, I understand the negative association that some people have with apes, but since I believe in evolution, then all people/races are related to apes. To the original point of the photo (which I haven't seen), it is wrong to mock or demean someone to try to hurt others, but the point of the comparison is, well, pointless.
But the point of comparing a black person to a monkey is to say there is a lack of evolution. It's no compliment.
ITA. It goes along with the comments like "They came down from the trees after us" (us being white/more evolved people) and "They were still swinging in trees when we were <insert historical event here>"
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Old 08-29-2008, 07:34 AM   #33
 
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I just got an email back from my Mom. She said "OK, I will never forward you anymore emails."
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Old 08-29-2008, 07:37 AM   #34
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I just got an email back from my Mom. She said "OK, I will never forward you anymore emails."
Hey, granny, I just delete most emails that are forwarded and don't bother telling people not to send them.
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Old 08-29-2008, 08:11 AM   #35
 
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Sorry I couldn't resist.

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Old 08-29-2008, 08:14 AM   #36
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Sorry I couldn't resist.


That is just wrong. What did those poor monkeys ever do to you? Sometimes you just have to laugh and move on.

That's making fun of his looks, not his whole race. I still don't think it's nice but certainly doesn't have the sting of the other remarks made about Mrs. Obama.
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Old 08-29-2008, 08:22 AM   #37
 
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That is just wrong. What did those poor monkeys ever do to you? Sometimes you just have to laugh and move on.

That's making fun of his looks, not his whole race. I still don't think it's nice but certainly doesn't have the sting of the other remarks made about Mrs. Obama.
If I was a monkey I would be peaved as hell. Everyone knows monkeys are very smart & I've yet to see any evidence that Bush surpasses their intelligence.
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Old 08-29-2008, 08:24 AM   #38
 
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I just got an email back from my Mom. She said "OK, I will never forward you anymore emails."
Hey, granny, I just delete most emails that are forwarded and don't bother telling people not to send them.
Please don't call me granny. That makes me feel so frumpy & old. My Mom is notorious about forwarding emails. I usually delete them without saying anything. She has been on a roll recently with anything concerning Obama, since she & her "clan" don't like him. I also have to listen to her rants on him when she calls on the weekends. I opened this email because I knew it was going to be another slam on him & I wanted to make a comment in hopes that she would "think." I guess I was wrong. I do believe that at 76 you can still change, but maybe not her. Thank God, I don't live near her.
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Old 08-29-2008, 08:28 AM   #39
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I just got an email back from my Mom. She said "OK, I will never forward you anymore emails."
Hey, granny, I just delete most emails that are forwarded and don't bother telling people not to send them.
Please don't call me granny. That makes me feel so frumpy & old. My Mom is notorious about forwarding emails. I usually delete them without saying anything. She has been on a roll recently with anything concerning Obama, since she & her "clan" don't like him. I also have to listen to her rants on him when she calls on the weekends. I opened this email because I knew it was going to be another slam on him & I wanted to make a comment in hopes that she would "think." I guess I was wrong. I do believe that at 76 you can still change, but maybe not her. Thank God, I don't live near her.
Hey, it's a part of your name but I don't know you well enough yet to call you ladies underwear!!
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Old 08-29-2008, 08:37 AM   #40
 
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Hey, granny, I just delete most emails that are forwarded and don't bother telling people not to send them.
Please don't call me granny. That makes me feel so frumpy & old. My Mom is notorious about forwarding emails. I usually delete them without saying anything. She has been on a roll recently with anything concerning Obama, since she & her "clan" don't like him. I also have to listen to her rants on him when she calls on the weekends. I opened this email because I knew it was going to be another slam on him & I wanted to make a comment in hopes that she would "think." I guess I was wrong. I do believe that at 76 you can still change, but maybe not her. Thank God, I don't live near her.
Hey, it's a part of your name but I don't know you well enough yet to call you ladies underwear!!
I really need to change my user name. Wile still calls me Lotsa. I love her for that.
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