Palin's Daughter IS pregnant now...

I firmly believe women should have the right to choose whether they have an abortion or not.

I agree with the statement "if you like abortion then don't get one." If you morally believe abortion is wrong, then don't get one but don't try to push your beliefs on to others, it is obnoxious and insulting. I feel like when people try to push their moral/religious beliefs on to others they are saying "Listen, you should do as I say because I am more intelligent than you and a better person. You can't be relied on to make good decisions because what ever you choose is going to lead you down the wrong path in life. Trust me you'll thank me later."

I also really hate that people always say you don't have to get an abortion there is always adoption/foster care, in reality the adoption system isn't all that it's cracked up to be. A lot of children suffer emotionally, mentally and physically while they are in the system waiting to get adopted if they ever do. There are also people who take in foster children to get money, some of these kids get abused physically/mentally/emotionally do you really want to put a kid through that? Granted not every foster parent will be evil.

Women are going to get abortions whether people like it or not. Do you pro-life people really want to go back to the era where women went and got "back alley abortions"? Lots of women got sick/died because they weren't given the choice to have a safer option of abortion. Here is a quote from the World Health Org "About 18 million unsafe abortions are carried out in developing countries every year, resulting in 70 000 maternal deaths. Many of these deaths could be prevented if information on family planning and contraceptives were available and put into practice." Think about it if 18mil unsafe abortions a year are happening in the DEVELOPING countries, imagine how many would happen in the U.S. if abortion becomes illegal. I don't care if you think "God" put us on this earth, and "God" wouldn't want women to get abortions. At the end of the day you don't know if "God" really exists or what "God" said and wants (a lot of people use God/religion as a defense in an abortion debate. I don't mean to offend any religious folks but I felt the need to put it out there.). Put you're religion aside and look at concrete facts and think about the risks and health problems that come with both legal abortions and unsafe abortions
Turtles: omg please don't put that in your moo moo

Nej: too late... moo moo has been infiltrated.
Is this particular human right more important to you than others? Say, if a candidate was anti-choice but pro-torture...
Originally Posted by legends

This is an interesting point.

I will readily admit that abortion is killing/ending someone/something else. And I will be even more bold and say it's a necessary evil. Most murder/killing is not tolerated in society, but some is: in war, in self defense, in accidents, etc.

Abortion should remain legal.
Originally Posted by curlyarca
WoW, I respect your honesty. What makes abortion a necessary evil?
Originally Posted by browneyedmama
I think abortion should be used as a last resort, first defenses being abstaining and any and all birth control methods (barriers, hormones, monitoring of menstruation, etc). In my mind's eye, abortion is not birth control, nor should it ever be thought of that way. I don't generally condone killing/ending the life of someone or something else, but I understand sometimes circumstances arise in life where this may be necessary and should be an option for women:

-rape
-incest
-health reasons
-other reasons (can't come up with an all in-clusive list)

This is why I'm pro-choice. I've never been pregnant, and I don't know if I'll ever need an abortion or not, but I'd like all options to be open to me if my defenses fail.

"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer."

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I see both sides of the pro-life, pro-choice argument, because I've been on both sides of that argument. I do agree that the govt shouldn't be able to tell us what we can do with our bodies, BUT I take issue with women who are on their 4th or 5th abortion because they don't want to take BCP and they don't "like" condoms and having a baby would interfere with their party lifestyle (and I've known some of these women). I'm not saying abortion should or shouldn't be regulated, but there comes a time when people need to take personal responsibility and grow up.
Originally Posted by Amandacurls
Exactly. It's not the government's place to control this.
Originally Posted by Josephine
You could say the same about the women who have baby after baby so the welfare check is bigger. I am not arguing with your viewpoint because I agree with it but where do you draw the line at the government telling you what you can and cannot do. The welfare thing is a whole different thread due to the abuse of that system.
Central Massachusetts

One good reason to only maintain a small circle of friends is that three out of four murders are committed by people who know the victim. ~George Carlin~

In regards to Vagazzling: They just want to get into the goods without worrying about getting scratched up by fake crystals. ~spring1onu~
A local talk show host was talking about this subject and he was apparently going at Palin about her daughter being pregnant and he received emails saying he was wrong to do that. He had also done a talk show about the girls in Gloucester MA that supposedly had a pregnancy pact - the same people that gave him a hard time about Palin were saying the same things about these girls in Gloucester. He actually went and pulled emails and invited those people who did a 180 to explain themselves. It will be interesting to see how that turns out.

Here is one of the articles:

Baby talk floods 'RKO
A funny thing happened when WRKO conservative talk host Reese Hopkins (inset) told listeners 17-year-old Bristol Palin's pregnancy makes him question VP hopeful Sarah Palin's parenting skills. Angry Republican listeners blew up his e-mail box, claiming Bristol's condition is family business. And Hopkins, who talked extensively on-air about the suspicious Gloucester teen pregnancy pact, was a little shocked. "You called these girls sluts, you said their parents were horrible," he said of his listeners. "But in 125 e-mails I have stacked in front of me, you're telling me [Bristol Palin's pregnancy] is not a big deal." Hopkins went back to the e-mails he received on the Gloucester story and compared them to his Palin e-mails. He found 70 listeners who flip-flopped on the teen pregnancy issue and invited them to explain. On Monday, Hopkins will broadcast live from George's Coffee Shop in Gloucester with Gloucester Daily Times reporter Patrick Anderson and editor Raymond Lamont.
Central Massachusetts

One good reason to only maintain a small circle of friends is that three out of four murders are committed by people who know the victim. ~George Carlin~

In regards to Vagazzling: They just want to get into the goods without worrying about getting scratched up by fake crystals. ~spring1onu~
I see both sides of the pro-life, pro-choice argument, because I've been on both sides of that argument. I do agree that the govt shouldn't be able to tell us what we can do with our bodies, BUT I take issue with women who are on their 4th or 5th abortion because they don't want to take BCP and they don't "like" condoms and having a baby would interfere with their party lifestyle (and I've known some of these women). I'm not saying abortion should or shouldn't be regulated, but there comes a time when people need to take personal responsibility and grow up.
Originally Posted by Amandacurls
Exactly. It's not the government's place to control this.
Originally Posted by Josephine
You could say the same about the women who have baby after baby so the welfare check is bigger. I am not arguing with your viewpoint because I agree with it but where do you draw the line at the government telling you what you can and cannot do. The welfare thing is a whole different thread due to the abuse of that system.
Originally Posted by xcptnl
Yeah, I have a big problem with that too.
A local talk show host was talking about this subject and he was apparently going at Palin about her daughter being pregnant and he received emails saying he was wrong to do that. He had also done a talk show about the girls in Gloucester MA that supposedly had a pregnancy pact - the same people that gave him a hard time about Palin were saying the same things about these girls in Gloucester. He actually went and pulled emails and invited those people who did a 180 to explain themselves. It will be interesting to see how that turns out.

Here is one of the articles:

Baby talk floods 'RKO
A funny thing happened when WRKO conservative talk host Reese Hopkins (inset) told listeners 17-year-old Bristol Palin's pregnancy makes him question VP hopeful Sarah Palin's parenting skills. Angry Republican listeners blew up his e-mail box, claiming Bristol's condition is family business. And Hopkins, who talked extensively on-air about the suspicious Gloucester teen pregnancy pact, was a little shocked. "You called these girls sluts, you said their parents were horrible," he said of his listeners. "But in 125 e-mails I have stacked in front of me, you're telling me [Bristol Palin's pregnancy] is not a big deal." Hopkins went back to the e-mails he received on the Gloucester story and compared them to his Palin e-mails. He found 70 listeners who flip-flopped on the teen pregnancy issue and invited them to explain. On Monday, Hopkins will broadcast live from George's Coffee Shop in Gloucester with Gloucester Daily Times reporter Patrick Anderson and editor Raymond Lamont.
Originally Posted by xcptnl

Interesting, and I like how this is being handled.

It's not unusual to see people more readily dismiss "unacceptable behavior" in one they support vs one the don't know or don't support. But, it isn't often we see it confronted like this.

One could say that the behavior of the pact girls was different as it seems that soem seeked multiple or previously unknown partners, or that Bristol is marrying the father. I'd like to see what becomes of this.

I have to admire Mr. Hopkins' take on it, whether it is out of curiosity, sincerity, or ratings, it is interesting and a valid point.
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Med/Coarse, porous curly.
Are there any stats on how many of the Gloucester girls married the fathers?
Minneapolis, MN
Are there any stats on how many of the Gloucester girls married the fathers?
Originally Posted by Poodlehead
Which is, I suppose, what makes Bristol getting knocked up OK, where it isn't for the other girls.

Comment directed in general, not towards you specifically. I'm just thinking that will be what those who seem to have flip flopped will say.
Kiva! Microfinance works.

Med/Coarse, porous curly.
Who cares that she's getting married or that the other girls aren't or are?

Marrying the father of your child doesn't guarantee success for the marriage or the family. I have seen too many shotgun weddings that were detrimental to the children and the relationship.

My girlfriend son's father was a certified nut! She often mentions that she is grateful that there is no one forced her to marry him. Her son is now 11 and she's happily married to a great guy and due with baby #2 any day.

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I've never gotten the whole get married just because they're pregnant thing. IMO the risks of a bad or failed marriage sound much more detrimental to a child then the risks of growing up in a single parent or non-traditional home.
Are there any stats on how many of the Gloucester girls married the fathers?
Originally Posted by Poodlehead
Which is, I suppose, what makes Bristol getting knocked up OK, where it isn't for the other girls.

Comment directed in general, not towards you specifically. I'm just thinking that will be what those who seem to have flip flopped will say.
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
That's why I asked, because I am guessing that is what the answer will likely be.

Who cares that she's getting married or that the other girls aren't or are?

Marrying the father of your child doesn't guarantee success for the marriage or the family. I have seen too many shotgun weddings that were detrimental to the children and the relationship.

My girlfriend son's father was a certified nut! She often mentions that she is grateful that there is no one forced her to marry him. Her son is now 11 and she's happily married to a great guy and due with baby #2 any day.
Originally Posted by wavezncurlz
I've never gotten the whole get married just because they're pregnant thing. IMO the risks of a bad or failed marriage sound much more detrimental to a child then the risks of growing up in a single parent or non-traditional home.
Originally Posted by cympreni
I agree with you both completely. I'm just not sure those who approve of Bristol would. Somehow, marriage legitimizes getting knocked up. Oh, it's okay, as long as you're getting married.
Minneapolis, MN


This is an interesting point.

I will readily admit that abortion is killing/ending someone/something else. And I will be even more bold and say it's a necessary evil. Most murder/killing is not tolerated in society, but some is: in war, in self defense, in accidents, etc.

Abortion should remain legal.
Originally Posted by curlyarca
WoW, I respect your honesty. What makes abortion a necessary evil?
Originally Posted by browneyedmama
I think abortion should be used as a last resort, first defenses being abstaining and any and all birth control methods (barriers, hormones, monitoring of menstruation, etc). In my mind's eye, abortion is not birth control, nor should it ever be thought of that way. I don't generally condone killing/ending the life of someone or something else, but I understand sometimes circumstances arise in life where this may be necessary and should be an option for women:

-rape
-incest
-health reasons
-other reasons (can't come up with an all in-clusive list)

This is why I'm pro-choice. I've never been pregnant, and I don't know if I'll ever need an abortion or not, but I'd like all options to be open to me if my defenses fail.
Originally Posted by curlyarca
I've got another one. Many drug addicts or alcoholics are not going to stop doing drugs or drinking just because they got pregnant, especially if its a pregnancy they don't want.
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