American or foreign...cars that is

My first car was a Merceded Benz (1980, i got it in 1996). I loved the car. it was a tank with a faulty starter. I had to beat it with my tire iron every day to get it to start. My parents took it for not doing as well as they would have liked in college. Then I had a Nissan Altima. It had 100 miles when I got it. I drove it 9 years and 450,000 miles before i traded it in for my current car. Repairs were the usual, got rid of it before the real expensive repairs started. My current car is a Lexus. I've had that for going on three years this year. I love it. Only have had to get oil changes and regular maintenance.

If i ever buy I truck, I will buy a Toyota. They seem to last forever. My mom had a little toyota car from the early 80s that is still running in mexico somewhere. You don't even need a key to start it, but it runs like a champ!
Originally Posted by curlymix
I had a car like that. One of my favorite tricks was when I had someone in my car for the first time was to start the car with the keys in, then pull them out while driving and toss them to the passenger and ask them to hold them for me. It did have it's disadvantages though. Because I didn't need them, I had a bad habit of not keeping track of them. So I couldn't always get in my trunk when I wanted to.

Although the story of how I found out was soooo embarrassing. I went out to start my car, and it would start, not even turn over. Had my dad, and BIL look at it, they couldn't come up with nothing. I had to go without my car for an entire week before I had the money to take it to a shop! They come and tows it to their shop. I get a call a few hours later, my car didn't need the key to run, thus allowing me to shut off my car when it wasn't in gear. Luckily the guy was cool and didn't charge me. I didn't know whether to laugh or die of embarassment.
foreign. they're prettier. american cars have this oversized clunky look about them. I have yet to find an american car that looks good. Way back in the day, they made pretty cars. Now not so much.
Originally Posted by webjockey
I think my American Made Baby is Beautiful...
The funny thing? This pretty little thing caused a little pain in the sales of the Miata. And they wanted something done about it. The foreign companies love to line the pockets of Consumer Reports so CR wrote quite a few inaccurate things about the Solstice.



Guide18
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Posts: n/a
What makes you say the foreign manufacturers pay to influence Consumer Reports' reviews? They do not accept advertising.
foreign. they're prettier. american cars have this oversized clunky look about them. I have yet to find an american car that looks good. Way back in the day, they made pretty cars. Now not so much.
Originally Posted by webjockey
I think my American Made Baby is Beautiful...
Originally Posted by curlylew66

Well sure. But that's not a typical car [convertible, only has two seats, etc.] When it comes to everyday cars, the foreign ones are better designed, imo.

I wish Steve Jobs would make a car.
Speckla
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Posts: n/a
Foreign - I drive a 2004 Honda CRV and my husband has a 2003 Toyota Celica. We've had several Fords, Pontiacs, and Chevrolets and there was always something wrong with them and several recalled parts. I had a 2001 Monte Carlo that was a beautiful burdangy with charcoal interior but was a piece of crude. I had it for 5 years and had more trouble than it was worth.

My grandfather only drove Fords or Lincolns and the cars were always breaking down. He was a mechanic so it wasn't a big deal for him to fix them.

I have had several different Toyotas over the years and they were they best running and best on gas.

I'd rather buy American and support my own country but I won't buy American made unless the quality greatly improves.

Last edited by Speckla; 01-31-2009 at 09:31 PM.
I've never bought a new car, and my used car purchases have been along the lines of, I need a car now, it must be within this price range and in good condition. And in my price range and condition preferences, older Japanese models seemed to be in better shape than newer American or European models. So I've owned Toyota, Honda, and Suzuki. (The Suzuki was a fluke. Not sure I'd buy another one of those, new or used.)

In the next year or two, whenever I can get the cash saved, I plan to buy my first new car ever. I have my eye on a Mini Cooper, stick shift, so that would be...European?

So I guess I buy foreign. I'm not against American though...a lot of cars that people swear up and down are superior because they're foreign (Volvo, Jaguar, Saab, etc) are actually owned by the Big 3. So whatevs. And in the European market, Ford actually makes some pretty darn good cars. Look at the European Focus...so cute and MUCH better quality than the American model.

Which leads to another question...with the American automakers struggling so much, why do they insist on selling their worst models in the U.S. and keeping the snazzier European versions away from us?
póg mo thóin
What makes you say the foreign manufacturers pay to influence Consumer Reports' reviews? They do not accept advertising.
Originally Posted by SuZenGuide
I didn't say it was advertising.
foreign. they're prettier. american cars have this oversized clunky look about them. I have yet to find an american car that looks good. Way back in the day, they made pretty cars. Now not so much.
Originally Posted by webjockey
I think my American Made Baby is Beautiful...
Originally Posted by curlylew66

Well sure. But that's not a typical car [convertible, only has two seats, etc.] When it comes to everyday cars, the foreign ones are better designed, imo.

I wish Steve Jobs would make a car.
Originally Posted by wild~hair
It doesn't matter if it is a typical car. I was responding to a post that was about appearance. Not every buyer is toting around a car load of kids or hauling something.
And not all convertibles are two seat vehicles. Some people do make a car like mine an everyday vehicle.

We have a Ford Fusion which is really nice. I like our Liberty too.

The 2010 Ford Taurus was getting a lot of attention at the Auto Show. The Focus is outstanding for gas mileage.
I have always like the mid size Lincoln.
And GM brought back the Camaro. And Dodge with the Charger and (especially) the Challenger are very cool.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 41,043

And Dodge with the Charger and (especially) the Challenger are very cool.
Originally Posted by curlylew66
Now we're talkin'!
But there is still something about having a 2 door

And Dodge with the Charger and (especially) the Challenger are very cool.
Originally Posted by curlylew66
Now we're talkin'!
But there is still something about having a 2 door
Originally Posted by WileECoyote - The Nudist Poster
Ummmmhmmmm....that Challenger is sexy hot.

And Dodge with the Charger and (especially) the Challenger are very cool.
Originally Posted by curlylew66
Now we're talkin'!
But there is still something about having a 2 door
Originally Posted by WileECoyote - The Nudist Poster
Ummmmhmmmm....that Challenger is sexy hot.
Originally Posted by curlylew66
They got a new Charger at DH's work. He keeps trying to convince the boss that it's sounds off and he needs to "test drive" it for a few days or a week to be sure everything's ok. After all that is a very nice car. It's his job as the mechanic to make sure it's in tip top condition before it gets to the customers.
What makes you say the foreign manufacturers pay to influence Consumer Reports' reviews? They do not accept advertising.
Originally Posted by SuZenGuide
I didn't say it was advertising.
Originally Posted by curlylew66
Can you please elaborate or post a link to what you're talking about?

We accept no advertising and we are not beholden to any commercial interest. Our income is derived from the sale of Consumer Reports and other publications and information services, and from noncommercial contributions, grants, and fees.
What makes you say the foreign manufacturers pay to influence Consumer Reports' reviews? They do not accept advertising.
Originally Posted by SuZenGuide
I didn't say it was advertising.
Originally Posted by curlylew66
Can you please elaborate or post a link to what you're talking about?

We accept no advertising and we are not beholden to any commercial interest. Our income is derived from the sale of Consumer Reports and other publications and information services, and from noncommercial contributions, grants, and fees.
Originally Posted by mrspoppers

Yeah, I'd like to see this too. Without anything to back it up ... color me extremely skeptical.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 41,043

And Dodge with the Charger and (especially) the Challenger are very cool.
Originally Posted by curlylew66
Now we're talkin'!
But there is still something about having a 2 door
Originally Posted by WileECoyote - The Nudist Poster
Ummmmhmmmm....that Challenger is sexy hot.
Originally Posted by curlylew66
http://www.challengertalk.com/galler...k.php?file=367
Code:
hotttt
I am not going to get into a debate about CR.
There has always been a debate regarding the way their information is obtained when they rate automobiles.
You have to be a paid subscriber to give your opinion.
Which is fine but not everyone who loves their vehicle is going to pay CR so they can give their car an excellent rating.

I like all three of our cars but I am not going pay CR to tell everyone that.

------------------------------------------------------
1.1. What is unique about CR's survey?
Consumer Reports' auto reliability information is unique in several respects:
  • We bring this data to the information marketplace with no fear or favor. Because we have no clients beyond our readers, we can report all the data, not just the autos with top results. We needn't worry about losing advertising in our magazine, so we can interpret the data with total independence.<LI style="LIST-STYLE-IMAGE: none; LIST-STYLE-TYPE: none">
  • Our subscribers tend to be well-educated and appreciative of objective, independent research, which makes them unusually qualified to provide valuable data about their experiences.<LI style="LIST-STYLE-IMAGE: none; LIST-STYLE-TYPE: none">
  • The sheer size of the reliability survey conducted by the Consumer Reports National Research Center enables us to look at owners' experiences with hundreds of thousands of cars. Unlike other reliability surveys, we are able to look at car models in several variants, in some cases reporting them separately by type of engine, drive types, trim lines or other classifications.
I am not going to get into a debate about CR.
Originally Posted by curlylew66

Well, no offense curlylew, but if you didn't want to debate it, you probably shouldn't have brought it up. I mean, fair's fair.

The stuff you posted there seems to reinforce my positive opinion of them, not take away from it.
I am not going to get into a debate about CR.
There has always been a debate regarding the way their information is obtained when they rate automobiles.
You have to be a paid subscriber to give your opinion.
Which is fine but not everyone who loves their vehicle is going to pay CR so they can give their car an excellent rating.

I like all three of our cars but I am not going pay CR to tell everyone that.

------------------------------------------------------
1.1. What is unique about CR's survey?
Consumer Reports' auto reliability information is unique in several respects:
  • We bring this data to the information marketplace with no fear or favor. Because we have no clients beyond our readers, we can report all the data, not just the autos with top results. We needn't worry about losing advertising in our magazine, so we can interpret the data with total independence.<LI style="LIST-STYLE-IMAGE: none; LIST-STYLE-TYPE: none">
  • Our subscribers tend to be well-educated and appreciative of objective, independent research, which makes them unusually qualified to provide valuable data about their experiences.<LI style="LIST-STYLE-IMAGE: none; LIST-STYLE-TYPE: none">
  • The sheer size of the reliability survey conducted by the Consumer Reports National Research Center enables us to look at owners' experiences with hundreds of thousands of cars. Unlike other reliability surveys, we are able to look at car models in several variants, in some cases reporting them separately by type of engine, drive types, trim lines or other classifications.
Originally Posted by curlylew66
I wasn't looking for a debate either. You made a very cryptic claim that CR is paid by foreign car makers to give them good reviews. I hadn't heard that, so I asked you to explain what you meant or where you heard it. I was looking for more information because that's a pretty serious allegation.

You then responded by saying you don't like they way you have to be a subscriber to complete their surveys. I'm scratching my head, trying to figure out the link. Are you saying that car companies purchase millions of CR subscriptions so they can pad the surveys? And, if so, how does that relate to their reviews? The vehicle reviews are based on new cars. The used car ratings are based on reader surveys.

Why not just explain what you mean so we can move on? I'm just not understanding what you're talking about.
So what's the verdict? Is CR reliable or not? I've got CR 2008 and I'm looking closely at the section about cars (we're looking to buy in the next few months). My husband is skeptical about some of the reviews but he's a person who isn't big on reviews.

ETA: Our last two vehicles have been foreign. The two before that were American.
I did answer. CR can influence a lot of potential buyers because people believe what they read. I was just stating the way they gather data and review new models has been questioned.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...ity-faq_ov.htm




6.8. How do you know that manufacturers don't "stuff the ballot box?"

In most other surveys that draw their samples from lists of registered car owners, the researcher can control who is mailed a survey. In the Consumer Reports survey, buying a subscription to either the magazine or to ConsumerReports.org allows you to report on your experience with two cars. Some subscribers have wondered whether a manufacturer could just arrange to have their employees fill out questionnaires saying that their cars are reliable, as a way to influence our Ratings. Hypothetically, this is a potential weakness in our survey.

However, there are a number of ways that we can protect against this potential for fraud. For obvious reasons, we do not want to describe in detail the actions we take in this regard. We are confident that no manufacturer has succeeded.





-----------------------------------------------------------

And they have at times given first year model American cars a bad rap because of past history.
Is that fair to companies that have made quality improvements?
What about if the Japanese model was made here?
------------------------------------------------------------





6.9. If you state that first-year models are less reliable than later-year models, how can you still recommend some new Japanese models in their first year?

It is true that some newly introduced or redesigned models have more problems than later model years of that design. This happens even to models from the most reliable manufacturers, such as Toyota/Lexus/Scion and Honda/Acura. But despite the decline in reliability due to the new design, if the new/redesigned model still earned an average predicted reliability, and performed well in our testing and independent crash and rollover tests, we will recommend it. We will not recommend any model that has below average predicted reliability regardless of how well it performed in our testing. Occasionally, we will recommend a new model with no reliability data specific to that design if the previous generation and/or the manufacturer has a consistently outstanding reliability track record based on our previous surveys. respond.

Last edited by curlylew66; 02-01-2009 at 03:58 PM. Reason: I put link at beginning of post

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