i don't want to be a size 6

^^^ I would guess that a woman who wears a typical size 16 weighs around 170 pounds, although I may be way off base. Definitely closer to 170 than to 270, though
You're right. I was taking 100-110 lbs as a size zero and adding ten pounds for every size after that. 110 + (16 x 10)= 270. I should have added ~10 lbs for every two sizes though.
Every woman carries weight differently. I'm short and the largest I've ever been was a size 10/12 and that was at 165 lbs. So, I could imagine size 16 easily being 200+ lbs.

Regardless, I think it is well accepted medical knowledge that heavier weights and especially extra abdominal fat is dangerous for men and women. It's not just in the US, lots of countries maintain standards for healthy sizes of adults and children, for health care expense reasons, etc.. But it also sounds like some of the size 16 curlies posting on this thread go out of their way to work out and are strong, also checking their blood stats. So all of that is good. But doesn't contradict the huge stack of medical studies and medical advice that people not carry around lots of excess weight. It taxes your organs and puts more stress on the body wearing it out faster. From a strict health perspective, a "normal" weight is usually best. For many women, that's not a size 2 (very small) or a size 16 (very large) but closer to size 6 and 8 as average, manageable sizes. But we all have preferences, though, some want to be smaller and others larger. Everyone is entitled to their preferences. And body shape/frames/height/genetics/culture will probably also influence size.

Frau, I agree that your daughter is probably rebelling against you and your body image issues. The sooner you ease up and let her learn her own life lessons the better. And I am saying this from personal experience because my mother raised me very healthy and is small/petite and I went through heavy stages in life. Nothing that she or anyone else said made a difference. I had to want to look and feel better, which for me given my height, means size 4/6. Let her grow up and learn what is right for her. If you raised her right, she will always gravitate towards the right choice. That's what happened to me, and I'm glad my mother had trust on some level that I would come around and let me be.
"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people."

"I think that somehow, we learn who we really are and then we live with that decision."
- Eleanor Roosevelt (both quotes)

(taking a break from posting starting late august 2009)
I think that when we talk about clothing sizes, we're each talking about our individual experiences and reactions.

I'm short, and have a narrow frame. The BMI categories and subdivisions correlate extremely well with my body composition. I know that if I were to jump up to a size 16 purely from an increase in body fat, I would physically feel very uncomfortable.

To me, "size 16" translates as "too heavy." However, I do keep in mind that other women would fill out size 16 clothes very differently than I would. I also realize that I wouldn't be able to pick a "size 16" woman out of a lineup. So outside of message board discussions, it's pretty moot.

Basically, I think that when people talk about their perceptions of a certain clothing size, they really are just talking about their perceptions, rather than judging people who wear that size IRL.

Also, touching on what Curls on Holiday wrote...It's great if you're one of the exceptions in the sea of medical studies. However, I think that those anecdotes can be somewhat misleading for most people. After all, a lot of us can't visit the doctor as often as we should. A lot of us frequently feel too harried to hit the gym, too. The anecdotes and exceptions are worth discussing, but they don't disprove the findings. Likewise, I don't see anything wrong with someone mentioning the results of medical studies, when those results apply to a large majority.

And it's true that fat itself can cause damage to organs, as well as hormonal problems including PCOS or excessive menstruation. Extra weight, whether it's fat or muscle (I'm talking about body builders, not people who are basically athletic), can also lead to joint problems later in life.

Last edited by Eilonwy; 02-07-2009 at 05:03 AM.
In my experience it's impossible to impose a "diet" on adults. You can't actually control exactly what they put in their mouths or how much exercise they do or what medicines they take which may/may not affect their weight. Best you can do is take care of yourself and hope that you can set a decent example.

And it's a goal of mine to try to accept and love each of my kids (ages 16, 18, 21) for the wonderful unique people they are and try as best I can to not be judgmental. It's hard sometimes, I bite my tongue a lot, but as I said, I'm working on it....
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People just don't like the aesthetics of a double digit woman.
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls

Some do.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
hell yeah!!!

ask that younger man asleep in my bed!

My blog:

http://labellatestarossa.blogspot.ca/

Little Mother of all the Roaches, President-for-Life of the MAC Harlots!
... it's true that fat itself can cause damage to organs, as well as hormonal problems including PCOS or excessive menstruation.
Originally Posted by Eilonwy
when i was diagnosed with PCOS i wore a size 8 (this was 17 years ago).

it was the treatment for the PCOS - high-dose estrogen and steroids - that caused me to gain weight.
My blog:

http://labellatestarossa.blogspot.ca/

Little Mother of all the Roaches, President-for-Life of the MAC Harlots!
I'm sorry, I totally did NOT put the context of a size 16 being a taller person. I was picturing myself at a size 16. The largest I've ever been was an 8 and I really hated being that size.

As for the discussion re: obesity and health (and I agree that BMI is a crappy indicator) I will simply counter with the fact that 1 lb of fat has 1 mile of capillaries that your heart has to work to pump through. As young as most of us are, our bodies adapt to stress and don't really show it. In 20 or 30 years, though, the stresses do start to show.
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People just don't like the aesthetics of a double digit woman.
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls

Some do.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
hell yeah!!!

ask that younger man asleep in my bed!

Originally Posted by rouquinne
Frau, how tall is your daughter?

Your daughter and I look very much alike. Same hair, skin color, build, around the same size, etc.

Are you calling me fat, Frau?

I'm a 14 and no one has ever called me fat. I can stand to lose 10 lbs (and that would put me at a healthy BF%), but I'd still be a 12. And unless someone is going to give me a 1 million dollar modeling contract, I really don't want to get any smaller.

I think your daughter is gorgeous. In the pics of her and her friends, she looks great! She's very pretty (and I'm not just saying that because we look alike! ).

eta:

I don't think it's wrong to be concerned about a relative's health. But once you've said something, it's in the other person's hands. You harping on it isn't going to make her lose weight. Obviously, it hasn't worked since you've been posting about it for the past, what?, 4 years?
3c/4a

Last edited by Po; 02-07-2009 at 08:14 AM.
Sizes are such a silly way of looking at things. They can really be deceiving.

I'm a size 6 or 8 and *I* need to lose 10 lbs! Which sounds ridiculous to think someone in a size six would still be 10lbs over - but body size can be confusing.
Gosh, I'm a size 12. Take a look at my Fotki and you just TRY and call *me* fat why don't you. Please! I mean, realistically, who on here fits the category of size 6 and lower? Oh really? The majority maybe? I doubt it.

Let's be honest here...
Honestly, I believe it depends on the person. I'm a 5'2", 120-lb person with a small frame, and excess fat does not distribute well on me (goes straight to my stomach and thighs). I'm happy ranging from a size 6-8 (petite women's) or 9-11 (Junior's). The ranges are there because there isn't a universal clothing size chart. :/ Whether or not a size is appropriate on someone depends on bone structure, muscle mass, and other health factors (even BMI isn't always accurate).
2a/M-C/ii hair. Super long.
I do think we usually know whats better for our children than they do. If anyone has a magical way to get them to listen to our wises (is that even a word?), I'd love to know it!
Frau, I understand what you are saying and how you feel. Of course you want whats best for your daughter, as most of us mothers do. But, if you are honest with yourself, you know that every time you slip something casually into the conversation about it, you are pushing her in the other direction. Trust me when I say I know how hard it is to bite your tongue with your child about many different things. But, when opposite personalities are at play, it's best we just shut up.
Originally Posted by 2happy


So true. Especially when the child is an adult, as Frau's daughter is. The best advice I've heard on parenting adult children is:

Don't give advice. They don't want it. They won't listen to it. They resent it. Don't give it.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

Maybe that's true for young adult children. But my mother offers me her frank advice from time to time and I do listen and take it seriously. I've even done some of the things she's suggested. They were things I knew I needed to do, and she was just nudging me.

But she doesn't overdo it. Very important. And she also hears out my advice to her. Also important.
I do think we usually know whats better for our children than they do.
Originally Posted by 2happy
Pretty strongly disagree with that statement.

People need to find their own way. I think a lot of folks think because they learned life's lessons the hard way, they can just pass all that along and everything will be great.

But all of us have our own path and own lessons to learn. You can't shortcut that process, it doesn't work.

That's why some women need to date men who are no good, despite their friends pleading with them to try and find someone better. They need to sort it out for themselves. They have to live it.
I think the most important things to take from this thread are that a) sizes are useless indicators of health, and b) that one size means different things on different women.

Hlel, I have pants that are 6s and pants that are 10s, and they all fit me pretty much the same. It's all about cut, form different manufacturers and has absolutely no pull in determining how healthy I am. When was the last time anyone's doctor asked what size they were??? Never, because it means squat.

No one is going to convince an adult to lose weight unless that adult actually WANTS to lose weight. So, Frau, all you're doing is f cking up your relationship with your daughter. WTG.
"And politically correct is the worst term, not just because it’s dismissive, but because it narrows down the whole social justice spectrum to this idea that it’s about being polite instead of about dismantling the oppressive social structure of power.
Fun Fact: When you actively avoid being “PC,” you’re not being forward-thinking or unique. You’re buying into systems of oppression that have existed since before you were even born, and you’re keeping those systems in place."
Stolen.
I'm proud for your daughter, Frau, that she was able to respond to you in such an adult way and that she seems to have to put a healthy distance between herself and your body issues.

I can't tell if you would be happier if she wore a size 6 but had a heroin or meth addiction. Trust me, parents of college-age children often have much more to worry about than what size clothes their children are wearing.

This is what I know about your daughter from previous posts:
She has gained weight since leaving home.
She walks like a duck.
She is not graceful.
You don't like her very much after visiting her facebook (or myspace) page and seeing some of the things she's posted.

So it's hard not to want to defend her when your posts have been mostly negative and we don't hear about you like in your daughter.

Since you've also posted a bit about being unhappy with your own life, I wonder if that might be spilling over into your perceptions of your daughter.
formerly Castella
(my dogs aren't snarly, my hair is)
Honestly, I believe it depends on the person. I'm a 5'2", 120-lb person with a small frame, and excess fat does not distribute well on me (goes straight to my stomach and thighs). I'm happy ranging from a size 6-8 (petite women's) or 9-11 (Junior's). The ranges are there because there isn't a universal clothing size chart. :/ Whether or not a size is appropriate on someone depends on bone structure, muscle mass, and other health factors (even BMI isn't always accurate).
Originally Posted by Mint
I agree with this post. I'm an inch taller than you with a small frame and my preference is for my weight to stay between 115 and 130 lbs (so at my heaviest ideal weight, still 35 lbs smaller than my largest weight ever). That happens to correlate to sizes 4/6 but I am including weights to make it more concrete.

I do think that weight and size vary tremendously by height and body build. Many of my friends are petite or thin. But I have a friend who is tall with a heavier frame. Her size and weight range would differ from mine because she is so much taller with a broader, heavier frame. I wonder if height/body frame differences are fueling a lot of the tensions in this thread and other, similar threads. My hunch is that for women 5'7" and up, the benchmarks of healthy weight and size are quite different than for the 5'4" and under crowd. (of course, models are tall and emaciated, but no one is upholding that as a realistic or even healthy standard because it is not, and most fashion magazine models are ages 14-26 anyway so it's fairly moot for the crowd here; other than women like Kate Moss, many models and actresses visibly put on weight as they age).
"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people."

"I think that somehow, we learn who we really are and then we live with that decision."
- Eleanor Roosevelt (both quotes)

(taking a break from posting starting late august 2009)
Honestly, I believe it depends on the person. I'm a 5'2", 120-lb person with a small frame, and excess fat does not distribute well on me (goes straight to my stomach and thighs). I'm happy ranging from a size 6-8 (petite women's) or 9-11 (Junior's). The ranges are there because there isn't a universal clothing size chart. :/ Whether or not a size is appropriate on someone depends on bone structure, muscle mass, and other health factors (even BMI isn't always accurate).
Originally Posted by Mint
I completely agree, and just to add how weird sizing is and how you can't judge somebody by a number, I'm 1 inch taller than you, about 20-25lbs heavier and a clothes size smaller!* I have a medium to large frame though.

Honestly, if you're (gy you) are healthy, who cares about the number written in clothes. I personally don't. If I need to go up or down a size to get something that fits me right, then so be it. I use to obsess over it, but I'm trying not to anymore. My health is more important to me than a label number.

*This comment is based on the jean size I take.
Think I'm 3b-ish...maybe some 3a there too...plus wavy roots....I'm just a mixed bag! CG since August '05
Clothing sizes and clothes for women in general are f***** up anyway. It's as if clothing sizes get smaller and smaller by the year (this is in Europe). If I were to measure my self esteem by my size, I'd be in therapy according to all the magazines that promote size zero.

I'm 5'7" and weigh 60 to 63 kg (that's between 132 and 139 lbs), which is pretty normal and healthy BMI wise. I'm a size 12. You probably couldn't even tell. But why would I want to tell people any different? Because of peer pressure or outside (media) pressure that's on women to be a certain size. Get real! I know plenty of women who deduct 2 to 4 sizes from their real size (and sometimes you can tell). WTH for!?

I don't think size actually matters, it's BMI, and whether or not you are overweight for your height and build. If that's all within reason and if you're healthy, I don't think anyone has anything to complain about.

I understand pressure, and if pressure for a young girl comes from an important role model, like her mother, who tells her constantly she is no good by judging her solely on her size and weight (that's how it comes across), there might be some serious problems ahead. Should there come a time where she takes it to heart, she might get an eating disorder. Please stop and realize what you are doing, Frau. Mentioning it once out of concern, fine, mentioning it over and over again and battering her to death with the way she is and her size 16, plastering it over message boards, is just plain wrong. It will eventually (if not already) destroy her self esteem and that's worse than trying to get her to loose a bit of weight. She might end up losing more in the long run if you continue to force the issue.

And who hasn't gained weight in college?!

Last edited by lapushka; 02-07-2009 at 01:16 PM.

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