i don't want to be a size 6

I'm proud for your daughter, Frau, that she was able to respond to you in such an adult way

This is what I know about your daughter from previous posts:
She is not graceful.
You don't like her very much after visiting her facebook (or myspace) page and seeing some of the things she's posted.
Originally Posted by Castella
i agree with the first paragraph. i like how she said what she did as well.

my daughter is graceful but her walk...yes, i did note that it could stand improvement.

regarding her myspace or facebook, wrong person, not me. my daughter is the same person online as offline. also, i don't read her personal things even though i have access to both her myspace and facebook accounts. i think you're mistaking me with someone else.

when i have issues with my daughter i tell her about it. it doesn't have anything to do with how happy i am or not. i don't increase or decrease criticism based on how i feel at the moment.

just because i complain about my daughter's weight or whatever i come here to complain about, doesn't mean that those are the only feelings i have about her.
Mentioning it once out of concern, fine, mentioning it over and over again and battering her to death with the way she is and her size 16, plastering it over message boards, is just plain wrong.

And who hasn't gained weight in college?!
Originally Posted by lapushka
really? maybe you should make a list of what topics are allowed on message boards.

i did not.
... it's true that fat itself can cause damage to organs, as well as hormonal problems including PCOS or excessive menstruation.
Originally Posted by Eilonwy
when i was diagnosed with PCOS i wore a size 8 (this was 17 years ago).
Originally Posted by rouquinne
I never implied that it's not possible for a very slim woman to develop PCOS. Just that extra fat can affect a woman's hormones enough to lead to PCOS when she wouldn't otherwise have developed it.
I'm 5'7" and weigh 60 to 63 kg (that's between 132 and 139 lbs), which is pretty normal and healthy BMI wise. I'm a size 12.
Originally Posted by lapushka
Are you in the UK? If so, that would be a size 8 in the US.

Does anyone know what's going on with the standardization of sizes in continental Europe? It sounds like all clothes will only fit one body type, but maybe I'm wrong.
... it's true that fat itself can cause damage to organs, as well as hormonal problems including PCOS or excessive menstruation.
Originally Posted by Eilonwy
when i was diagnosed with PCOS i wore a size 8 (this was 17 years ago).
Originally Posted by rouquinne
I never implied that it's not possible for a very slim woman to develop PCOS. Just that extra fat can affect a woman's hormones enough to lead to PCOS when she wouldn't otherwise have developed it.
Originally Posted by Eilonwy

That's a "chicken/egg" argument, but most scientists these days think that PCOS and its accompanying insulin resistance are the cause of weight gain in PCOS patients, not the other way round.
Lots of bashing going on on this thread. My 2 cents: Its hard to feel critical of your own child. I know that when my kids have an issue or weakness that I myself possess it "pushes my buttons". When we are emotional we lose our objectivity and become ineffective. I'm not saying thats the case here, but its hard when you think your child has a shortcoming.

Aside: Fraus daughter should be exercising. Every able bodied person should be exercising.

Final point: Theres a hundred different ways to convey the same message, depending on tone, underlying feelings, nuance, body language, history and motive.
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I thought of this thread today. It's my Reserve weekend, and that means some group running is in there. I thought about this thread as I passed up skinny 20 year olds on the track. I'm twice their age, and obviously a fat a$$ disgusting tub of lard by the standards of some here, so it seemed ironic.

People - it's not the shape you have, it's the shape you're in.

Those of you size 8 and under people who still have some sort of warped body image where you think that you are too big or that everyone bigger than you is too big and disgusting, work on your own damn issues and leave the double digiters alone.

Frau, if you were my Mom, going from what I've seen over the past couple of years, I'd feel crappy about myself all of the time. And yeah, I'd probably eat on purpose just to distance myself - or I'd be blulemic just to get your approval.

Damn, this thread really makes we want to get all Christian bale up in here.

Couch it under "health" all you want to make it look pretty and non-discriminatory all you want. It's pretty known that it's just a cover to slam bigger people.
Kiva! Microfinance works.

Med/Coarse, porous curly.
I wouldn't assume frau's daughter is putting on weight just to spite her mom; though she might enjoy that it irritates her if some of the background on this thread is anything go by.

Most likely she is just stressed out (maybe due to her mom constantly picking at her weight or any number of school-based factors) and eating more because of it. I've never heard of someone putting on weight to spite someone else. That is really going out of your way to piss someone off!

Also you are not an adult if you are still dependent on your folks to pay for your school fees; is the child even out of her teens? Please.

I don't see a reason for a parent to not voice concern about her kid's weight, whatever the age. It's not a blanket truth that the kids don't listen, unless they have some HUGE hardheaded issues. I do think though, that as you get older you will weigh up your parent's point of view rather than taking it as gospel.
I wouldn't assume frau's daughter is putting on weight just to spite her mom; though she might enjoy that it irritates her if some of the background on this thread is anything go by.

Most likely she is just stressed out (maybe due to her mom constantly picking at her weight or any number of school-based factors) and eating more because of it. I've never heard of someone putting on weight to spite someone else. That is really going out of your way to piss someone off!

Also you are not an adult if you are still dependent on your folks to pay for your school fees; is the child even out of her teens? Please.

I don't see a reason for a parent to not voice concern about her kid's weight, whatever the age. It's not a blanket truth that the kids don't listen, unless they have some HUGE hardheaded issues. I do think though, that as you get older you will weigh up your parent's point of view rather than taking it as gospel.
Originally Posted by jeamaria
Young people do stuff to spite their parents all the time. I could see it.

Frau's concern with her daughters weight occurs often enough to make me think it's more of an issue with her than it is with the average Mom. It has to be a stressor on her daughter.
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Med/Coarse, porous curly.
There is a lot of arguing over here, but who wouldn't expect it when you're on this subject? I think that Frau should butt out if her daughter is self-confident unless there are health issues involved. If there are, then she should casually ask about going to the gym, and not get into a big discussion. The doctor would probably mention something if there were big health concerns, but otherwise nobody has to be a size 4.
I'm twice their age, and obviously a fat a$$ disgusting tub of lard by the standards of some here, so it seemed ironic.

...Those of you size 8 and under people who still have some sort of warped body image where you think that you are too big or that everyone bigger than you is too big and disgusting, work on your own damn issues and leave the double digiters alone.
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
I seriously did not read this attitude into any of the posts here.

As I mentioned before, I am short and have a narrow frame (ribcage, shoulders, etc.). A size 16 sounds big to me because I would need to be pretty big to fill it out.

On the other hand, I remember from previous posts that you are tall. It also sounds like you have more muscle mass than I do. I've seen your photos, and I don't think you look anything like "a tub of lard."

The people who pinpointed size 16 as "unhealthy" are short, and they are also newer posters who aren't familiar with you. If they saw a picture of you, I'm sure they'd agree that you look fine.

Last edited by Eilonwy; 02-07-2009 at 09:23 PM.

Couch it under "health" all you want to make it look pretty and non-discriminatory all you want. It's pretty known that it's just a cover to slam bigger people.
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
If you are referring to me or my posts, I have to disagree.

I've been heavier and had borderline hints of health implications because of it (irregular period). I also have heavy family members, immediate and extended, suffering serious health issues because of excess weight. Someone I am very close to has medically improved dramatically because of substantial, health related weight loss. And there are many other examples too.

It's just sad to me that health related concerns about excess weight cannot be seen as that and are instead turned into some finger pointing us/them exercise, when some of us have perspective from both sides and are trying to be fair about it. Anyway, I just wanted to chime in with these points. If you (g/y) are happy and healthy at your size, then be happy and healthy at your size and not make it someone else's problem, issue or hang up that maybe you have some problem, issue or hang up based on the tone of your posts and accusations of others.
"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people."

"I think that somehow, we learn who we really are and then we live with that decision."
- Eleanor Roosevelt (both quotes)

(taking a break from posting starting late august 2009)
I do admit to being hypersensitive to the issue, but I tire of hearing single digit size-dom as being ideal.

I don't see myself as tall, more medium height, but I do have a stout frame. I figure if I have to carry that, I was as well, have some strength to go along with it, lol. I freely admit that I'm no pixie and never will be.

I think that there is a wide variety of valid set points for different women.

There've just been various posts this week in other threads about size and size perception, and it frustrates me that we (and I guess I'm talking mainly about US culture in this) are so stuck on the size of a woman, as if that is her main asset and selling point.

When we get down to the nitty gritty, we all know better, yet it still comes down to size. It's frustrating.
Kiva! Microfinance works.

Med/Coarse, porous curly.
RCC,

I can understand where you are coming from. And as a single, career oriented adult woman with younger female relatives and many female friends it bothers me that women are so heavily valued for looks, much more so than men (but men still get a boost from a handsome appearance or fit/hot body, etc..). So, I agree with you there.

But I'm going to keep on this health thing because I think it's that important. I harp on it in my personal life a lot, to family and friends. Health is just of paramount importance and is the foundation for every other possible good thing you can have in life. No health or poor health? No life or very poor quality of life putting a drain on loved ones and friends, stealing away precious quality time and productive energy.

Anyway, as for you, I've seen your pictures and posted about your figure. I think you are very attractive and carry your weight well. You also have beautiful hair and seem to be kind and have a good level of confidence. I'm also glad that you are strong and not feeling any health implications from your weight, whatever it is. Maybe where you're at size and weight wise is right for you. I can't tell and I am not judging you. But from my experience, I carried excess weight well and looked OK; men still flirted with me and I had relationships and options and felt desireable at a much heavier weight than now. But having lost that excess weight, I feel healthier and am healthier, feel better, stronger and more attractive at a smaller weight. And that is my strong personal preference. But if you are in a different place based on your body type, genetics, preferences, etc.. I hope that my posts and what I am saying don't make you feel bad. Because that is not my intent at all.
"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people."

"I think that somehow, we learn who we really are and then we live with that decision."
- Eleanor Roosevelt (both quotes)

(taking a break from posting starting late august 2009)
COH, it's just in general, my rants. Not aimed at one poster in particular. It's just an issue that hits a major nerve because I have to deal with assumptions about being a non-petite woman in daily life.

I think that there are plenty of women who can be healthy and active at larger sizes. I remember reading an article about a plus sized yoga instructor who was in amazing condition, and was a size 18.

Some people will do better at a 6, and others are just not meant to be a 6, even if they are healthy and active.

I just feel that we can't tell the health and fitness of a woman by looks. There are thin women who can't run a mile or swim a lap to save their lives. There are plus sized women who are active and healthy. And of course, there are thin women who are in good shape, and larger women who are ill.

If a woman is bigger, she knows it. I don't think that anyone telling her about it will help. If she is huffing and puffing to get up one flight of steps, that is another story, no matter what size the person is. I just don't know many people who respond well to nagging couched as support.
Kiva! Microfinance works.

Med/Coarse, porous curly.
Couch it under "health" all you want to make it look pretty and non-discriminatory all you want. It's pretty known that it's just a cover to slam bigger people.
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
I would never "slam" a bigger person. I don't even care about it enough to feel the need to do that. But I do feel genuine concern for my friends who are significantly overweight.

One of them has a body type very similar to yours--shape, level of athleticism, and height (you're about 5'7, right? That's tall, to me ). Unfortunately, due to the way her body works, those stats made her develop PCOS. She developed it when she rapidly gained 20 pounds about a year ago. Her doctors have advised her that her condition would improve greatly if she lost those 20 pounds. However, committing to losing weight just isn't one of her priorities. So it does make me very sad that she's not slimmer, but it has absolutely nothing to do with her appearance.

I also have a couple of friends who are morbidly obese. While they currently enjoy good health, I can't help but worry about how they may be affected in a couple of decades. After all, I've known two people, both of them morbidly obese, who died of heart attacks at age 39. Currently, all of my friends are college students who walk a couple of miles each day. But what will happen when they have office jobs and travel by car? Maybe they won't die young, but their quality of life could still be worse than it would be otherwise. I've never said anything about it to them, because I figure they already know. But of course I worry, because I care about them.

Another of my friends was morbidly obese 4 years ago. She was on the cusp of developing diabetes and other health problems, so she was placed on an emergency diet that was initially very restrictive. In three years, she lost over 100 pounds. She currently weighs around 140 pounds, and has maintained her weight for a year. I have a a lot of admiration for her. It took a great deal of effort for her to do that.

I know that people can try to conceal aesthetic criticism of weight and size with false concern for health. But I also feel that, to some extent, your health grants you a position of privilege that most statistically overweight people don't share.

I just feel that we can't tell the health and fitness of a woman by looks. There are thin women who can't run a mile or swim a lap to save their lives. There are plus sized women who are active and healthy. And of course, there are thin women who are in good shape, and larger women who are ill.

If a woman is bigger, she knows it. I don't think that anyone telling her about it will help. If she is huffing and puffing to get up one flight of steps, that is another story, no matter what size the person is. I just don't know many people who respond well to nagging couched as support.
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
I think you are right. I personally know very thin, naturally thin women who probably don't have great cardiovascular health because they don't ever exercise because they don't have to - they look stunninng as-is and are busy with lives, families, etc. so don't prioritize exercise the way that some heavier or more athletic women do. The huffing and puffing thing can be problematic for heavier people, though. And since US culture and lifestyle, including many sedentary jobs, car commutes, heavy family and personal demands mean that many people are not exercising enough, excess weight plus not enough exercise can lead to a vicious cycle.

Nagging, no, doesn't work. But over time, those messages do add up and do make a difference. With loved ones and friends, I care enough to nag about the things that I know will increase quality of life and be good for the person. NC is a nice community that I've felt part of for years, so I guess there is some spill over sometime I'l leave you alone now. Just keep doing what you do to stay kind, happy, confident and physically fit.
"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people."

"I think that somehow, we learn who we really are and then we live with that decision."
- Eleanor Roosevelt (both quotes)

(taking a break from posting starting late august 2009)
I know that people can try to conceal aesthetic criticism of weight and size with false concern for health. But I also feel that, to some extent, your health grants you a position of privilege that most statistically overweight people don't share.
Originally Posted by Eilonwy
I strongly agree with this, and am glad for the rest of your post and examples. It's educational and worth sharing.
"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people."

"I think that somehow, we learn who we really are and then we live with that decision."
- Eleanor Roosevelt (both quotes)

(taking a break from posting starting late august 2009)
I think that there is a wide variety of valid set points for different women.
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
To my knowledge, science doesn't think this. Maybe you'll pull out a link to a research journal and prove me wrong, but here's what I know about set points.

First off, the existence of set points has not been proven. There is research that suggests that set points exist, but it hasn't been definitively confirmed.

Secondly, if set points do exist, they stay within a statistically healthy weight range. Supposing that they exist, a woman who's 5'5 could have hers at 145. She's got a little padding that's hard for her to shed, but it doesn't leave her at risk for medical problems.

There's a lot of misinformation about set points online, and it tends to be used to discourage obese women from losing weight. So, I just wanted to clear that up.
I apologize if my post comes across as bashing and I apologize specifically to Frau, because I expressed myself more harshly than I intended. Frau, you have good reason to be proud of your daughter and of yourself.

I see a lot of parents struggling with crisis situations with their children, and parents mourning the consequences of stupid impulsive things their children have done. This obviously distorts my perspective.

My mother and I, and she and her own mother also, struggled with issues related to appearance, body, and respect.

None of that needed to be brought into this thread.

On a side note, I agree that it is improbable that a child will consciously gain weight to spite a parent. However, it is not at all uncommon for children to unconsciously engage in all kinds of self destructive behaviors to send a message (often mixed messages, along the lines of: leave me alone! while taking care of me! but don't pick on me!) to their parents.
formerly Castella
(my dogs aren't snarly, my hair is)

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