My friend has become indoctrinated!

And you question God's existence because your brother died? Because your prayer wasn't answered?
Originally Posted by Phoenix
First of all, f*ck you.

Second of all, no, I don't question whether God exists because my brother died. My brother died when I was 40. I've questioned God's existence since I was 12. You do the math.
But I also believe that those who don't accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, regardless of how much they "got out there," won't be getting to Heaven at all.
Again - all you religious types just go ahead and made that decision for the rest of us. The way WE want to worship doesn't matter, does it? Believing in God and worshipping him doesn't count for anyone unless we follow YOUR rules, correct?
I'm sure that will get everyone up in arms... Cuz I'm shoving my religion down your throat now, right? Oh well.
Actually, I'm glad you finally get it. Because - yes, you are. Too bad you weren't able to make your point.
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We're going to have to agree to disagree on this. Because when my brother was diagnosed with cancer, I prayed to God to please spare him. He was a great guy, why take him? Clearly I'm not an oncologist, so all I could really do on my own was pray, and go see him every day in the hospital, and try to keep my family together. And he died anyway. At age 46, clearly not at the end of his life. So, if prayer fixes things, please, answer that for me - why isn't my brother around anymore, healthy and happy. And I keep saying again - prove to me that God exists. Even after all that, I still believe in Him, even though I don't understand why he took my brother, I still believe in him, but my brother's death is a perfect example of - prove to me that God exists.
Originally Posted by LisaF1163
Butting in here for a minute. I believe in God and I'm religious and it also bothers me when people say that 'God took so and so.' No where in the Bible does it say that God helps people along to die because he needs them. God is the most powerful creative being. If he "needed' something, he would just create it. He wouldn't take someone who is loved and cherished and irreplaceable to their family on earth just so he could selfishly have them in heaven. So I can totally see how people saying that would be annoying. People don't know what their saying sometimes. A lot of people who say those things don't even read the Bible.

Also, I am sorry for your loss. My mother had cancer a few years back and thankfully she is a survivor. It was very scary and still is today and I never felt that her illness had anything to do with God. But I very very thankful that she made it.
my friend's away message...thought i'd post this to lighten the mood:

"When I was young I used to pray for a bike, then I realized that God doesn't work that way, so I stole a bike and prayed for forgiveness"

From a bit of a different perspective, I am a very religious person. When my little baby died this past summer, I really didn't want to hear "God has a bigger plan" or "it was God's will". I don't buy that. I was very annoyed with these type of statements.
Originally Posted by poisonivy
phoenix this was more the pov i was coming from - that even the religious/christian/etc can become annoyed with those statements too.
Originally Posted by Sleigh

Sorry, I am behind a few pages subject-wise, but I guess I don't understand this...

Why would Christian people be "annoyed" with words that come directly from God? And how could they "not buy them"?

(talking only about Christians here, not other 'religious' people)

(For example, God's word specifically talks how everything (good and bad) fits into his larger plan. Also He says He has a will and a plan for everyone, and that everyone's days are numbered even before the first one began. Those are all straight from the mouth of God.)

What I think is going on, is people profess to be Christians, but they really have no idea what He actually says in the Bible. And they get annoyed when they hear it and don't "like" the sound of it.

(Some religious people have made up their own theology, about what they "want" God to be like, or what they "think" God is like, but they don't bother to find out the truth of what really God says about Himself, his ways and the reasons behind them. All clearly layed out in the Bible.)

I was raised (school and church) in one very large well-known religion--that absolutely did not teach me what God says in the Bible. (And for years I had all those same kind of annoyances, thoughts, and man-made misinformed beliefs).

Then I started reading the Bible and was shocked and blown away by what God actually says. And my understanding and thinking changed 180. Then things made absolute sense.

Again, just my Christian perspective, but in times of struggle, the best thing anyone could do for me would be to impart God's wisdom and words and ask Him to help me.

I know I'm off on a tangent all by myself!! No response necessary!
Grace sets apart Christianity from all other religions.

No other religion offers God's love and redemption coming to us free of charge, as a gift, with no strings attached, no performance required, no standard to meet.

Only Christianity dares to make God's love unconditional.

(Whelchel)
my friend's away message...thought i'd post this to lighten the mood:

"When I was young I used to pray for a bike, then I realized that God doesn't work that way, so I stole a bike and prayed for forgiveness"

Originally Posted by Sleigh
Hahaha, hilarious. Thanks.
About people dying...again nobody will understand this unless they know what God says in the Bible....

- "Your days on earth were numbered even before the first one began." So if your loved one didn't die of illness on that day, they would have died of something else-- because that was God's plan ("when he knit you together in your mother's womb".)

- Again, you won't understand this, if you don't know the Bible, but this world is a bad place. God absolutely doesn't view it as selfishly taking your loved one, He views it as getting your loved one out of this world into a place so amazing that "no eye has seen." I'd much rather have my loved ones be in Heaven than here. (You can read in the Bible how satan currently rules the earth. So true Christians can't wait to get out of here.)
Grace sets apart Christianity from all other religions.

No other religion offers God's love and redemption coming to us free of charge, as a gift, with no strings attached, no performance required, no standard to meet.

Only Christianity dares to make God's love unconditional.

(Whelchel)
(For example, God's word specifically talks how everything (good and bad) fits into his larger plan. Also He says He has a will and a plan for everyone, and that everyone's days are numbered even before the first one began. Those are all straight from the mouth of God.)
Where does it say this?
(For example, God's word specifically talks how everything (good and bad) fits into his larger plan. Also He says He has a will and a plan for everyone, and that everyone's days are numbered even before the first one began. Those are all straight from the mouth of God.)
Where does it say this?
Originally Posted by Xyz
Psalm 139:16.

your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.

Psalm 139 was incredibly comforting to me after my miscarriage.
And you question God's existence because your brother died? Because your prayer wasn't answered?
Originally Posted by Phoenix
First of all, f*ck you.

Second of all, no, I don't question whether God exists because my brother died. My brother died when I was 40. I've questioned God's existence since I was 12. You do the math.
But I also believe that those who don't accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, regardless of how much they "got out there," won't be getting to Heaven at all.
Again - all you religious types just go ahead and made that decision for the rest of us. The way WE want to worship doesn't matter, does it? Believing in God and worshipping him doesn't count for anyone unless we follow YOUR rules, correct?
I'm sure that will get everyone up in arms... Cuz I'm shoving my religion down your throat now, right? Oh well.
Actually, I'm glad you finally get it. Because - yes, you are. Too bad you weren't able to make your point.
Originally Posted by LisaF1163
So, if prayer fixes things, please, answer that for me - why isn't my brother around anymore, healthy and happy. And I keep saying again - prove to me that God exists
Heh, f*ck you back.
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From a bit of a different perspective, I am a very religious person. When my little baby died this past summer, I really didn't want to hear "God has a bigger plan" or "it was God's will". I don't buy that. I was very annoyed with these type of statements.
Originally Posted by poisonivy
phoenix this was more the pov i was coming from - that even the religious/christian/etc can become annoyed with those statements too.
Originally Posted by Sleigh

Sorry, I am behind a few pages subject-wise, but I guess I don't understand this...

Why would Christian people be "annoyed" with words that come directly from God? And how could they "not buy them"?

(talking only about Christians here, not other 'religious' people)

(For example, God's word specifically talks how everything (good and bad) fits into his larger plan. Also He says He has a will and a plan for everyone, and that everyone's days are numbered even before the first one began. Those are all straight from the mouth of God.)

What I think is going on, is people profess to be Christians, but they really have no idea what He actually says in the Bible. And they get annoyed when they hear it and don't "like" the sound of it.

(Some religious people have made up their own theology, about what they "want" God to be like, or what they "think" God is like, but they don't bother to find out the truth of what really God says about Himself, his ways and the reasons behind them. All clearly layed out in the Bible.)

I was raised (school and church) in one very large well-known religion--that absolutely did not teach me what God says in the Bible. (And for years I had all those same kind of annoyances, thoughts, and man-made misinformed beliefs).

Then I started reading the Bible and was shocked and blown away by what God actually says. And my understanding and thinking changed 180. Then things made absolute sense.

Again, just my Christian perspective, but in times of struggle, the best thing anyone could do for me would be to impart God's wisdom and words and ask Him to help me.

I know I'm off on a tangent all by myself!! No response necessary!
Originally Posted by Priscilla
because, oftentimes, the intent behind those words is one of judgment ("how can you just not understand this is gods will?!") and can seem very unfeeling/cold/unloving.

look at the story with jesus and lazarus. what was jesus' response? he cried. he didnt go off spouting it was gods will.

and fyi, there are enough scriptures that point out we lie in the ground for awhile before we're taken up to heaven. there is some actually speculation on that.
First of all, f*ck you.

Originally Posted by Phoenix
Heh, f*ck you back.
Originally Posted by LisaF1163


Ahhhhh...christian love. It just warms my heart....
my friend's away message...thought i'd post this to lighten the mood:

"When I was young I used to pray for a bike, then I realized that God doesn't work that way, so I stole a bike and prayed for forgiveness"

Originally Posted by Sleigh

There's that christian loophole again...
No matter how nice a Christian is, RedCat, you'll find something wrong with them. Your behavior is no better on most occasions. So your allusion to hypocrisy is, well, hypocritical.
No MAS.

I am the new Black.

"Hope the Mail are saving space tomorrow for Samantha Brick's reaction piece on the reactions to her piece about the reactions to her piece." ~ Tweet reposted by Rou.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Kimshi4242

http://www.tumblr.com/blog/kimshi4242
No matter how nice a Christian is, RedCat, you'll find something wrong with them. Your behavior is no better on most occasions. So your allusion to hypocrisy is, well, hypocritical.
Originally Posted by Phoenix


See...the difference is...I freely admit to being a b1tch. I don't claim to follow the teachings of jesus, who was supposed to be all-about-love-turn-the-other-cheek-and-all-that-jazz.

I have met christians who actually do live like jesus, and it can be a beautiful thing. Unfortunately, those types are kinda rare. When it comes to hypocrisy, it's hard to beat most christians.
This thread is making me really, really glad I left that whole religion thing behind long ago.
First of all, f*ck you.

Originally Posted by Phoenix
Heh, f*ck you back.
Originally Posted by LisaF1163


Ahhhhh...christian love. It just warms my heart....
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
Okay, now THIS made me laugh.

See...the difference is...I freely admit to being a b1tch. I don't claim to follow the teachings of jesus, who was supposed to be all-about-love-turn-the-other-cheek-and-all-that-jazz.

I have met christians who actually do live like jesus, and it can be a beautiful thing. Unfortunately, those types are kinda rare. When it comes to hypocrisy, it's hard to beat most christians.
Absolutely, and I completely agree.
No matter how nice a Christian is, RedCat, you'll find something wrong with them. Your behavior is no better on most occasions. So your allusion to hypocrisy is, well, hypocritical.
Originally Posted by Phoenix


See...the difference is...I freely admit to being a b1tch. I don't claim to follow the teachings of jesus, who was supposed to be all-about-love-turn-the-other-cheek-and-all-that-jazz.

I have met christians who actually do live like jesus, and it can be a beautiful thing. Unfortunately, those types are kinda rare. When it comes to hypocrisy, it's hard to beat most christians.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
Ahh...the atheist loophole.
No MAS.

I am the new Black.

"Hope the Mail are saving space tomorrow for Samantha Brick's reaction piece on the reactions to her piece about the reactions to her piece." ~ Tweet reposted by Rou.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Kimshi4242

http://www.tumblr.com/blog/kimshi4242
No matter how nice a Christian is, RedCat, you'll find something wrong with them. Your behavior is no better on most occasions. So your allusion to hypocrisy is, well, hypocritical.
Originally Posted by Phoenix
See...the difference is...I freely admit to being a b1tch. I don't claim to follow the teachings of jesus, who was supposed to be all-about-love-turn-the-other-cheek-and-all-that-jazz.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
Absolutely. Those people who insist on telling, and often legally forcing, others to live by their rules should be judged by higher standards.
Eres o te haces?
No matter how nice a Christian is, RedCat, you'll find something wrong with them. Your behavior is no better on most occasions. So your allusion to hypocrisy is, well, hypocritical.
Originally Posted by Phoenix


See...the difference is...I freely admit to being a b1tch. I don't claim to follow the teachings of jesus, who was supposed to be all-about-love-turn-the-other-cheek-and-all-that-jazz.

I have met christians who actually do live like jesus, and it can be a beautiful thing. Unfortunately, those types are kinda rare. When it comes to hypocrisy, it's hard to beat most christians.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
Ahh...the atheist loophole.
Originally Posted by Phoenix

I prefer non-theist, thanks. Rational Thinker works too.
OK, the non-theist loophole. Rational? Maybe not.
No MAS.

I am the new Black.

"Hope the Mail are saving space tomorrow for Samantha Brick's reaction piece on the reactions to her piece about the reactions to her piece." ~ Tweet reposted by Rou.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Kimshi4242

http://www.tumblr.com/blog/kimshi4242

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