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Old 03-05-2009, 09:08 AM   #21
 
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The stepfather will not be charged with murder, because God-forbid in a patriarchal belief system that he should be at fault for the consequences of his actions. He might or might not be guilty of rape in their eyes...perhaps they can show in their sick and twisted minds that the girl wanted it or asked for it...but even if they think he's guilty of rape...they are still going to go after the woman for protecting her child. Shame on her for making such a tough decision and wanting to protect her child, even though it was the gutless, sick jerk who put them in the situation to begin with.

I'm pro-choice, but I can respect many pro-lifers who honestly think abortion is killing someone. However, the ones that value the fetus over the woman (or in this case, child) to the point of not caring about the woman's life...that to me is sick and immoral. My mother is pro-life but she takes the woman's health into consideration. My brother is one of those sick pro-lifers who values fetuses to the exclusion of the mother, if need be.
I respect my mother's difference of opinion, but not my brother's.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:08 AM   #22
 
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I agree that abortion is a personal and private matter, and shouldn't be politicized. The RCC has overstepped itself.

I am pro-life and do not think the pregnant woman's life means squat, so RCW, I think your comment is unfair. That's grossly distorted to say the pro-lifers don't care about the mother and only care about the baby.

I want to know what was done to the stepfather. Did they dna test the babies to determine he was the father? Has he been prosecuted? And if so, was it a slap on the wrist or a charge of child rape? What are Brazil's laws regarding child rape?
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:10 AM   #23
 
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I am pro-life and do not think the pregnant woman's life means squat, so RCW, I think your comment is unfair.
Cricket, just so you know, "...do not think the pregnant woman's life means squat" makes it sound like you think it's worth less than squat. What you really meant became clear from the context. However, you may want to edit it, as someone may hastily respond.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:12 AM   #24
 
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Oh yes, abortion would be legal if men were all of a sudden the ones to get pregnant. You better believe it.
And, yep, the abortion issue more times than not seems to be about controlling women's sexuality/lives. Again, not all pro-lifers are trying to control women, but I think a lot really get disgusted that women can be sexual, have the power to give birth, and decide for themselves whether they want to or not.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:15 AM   #25
 
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Let's see who takes the bait.

It's not bait. It's true. So many christians are on a high horse, thinking they are oh-so-much better than that terrible Taliban and Islam, when in reality, the christian religion is every bit as oppressive to women as Islam.
i grew up catholic and am no longer catholic or christian for a myriad of reasons, particularly the catholic church's retrograde treatment of women. and i agree that americans, in general, and christians in particular, can be incredibly smug and condescending when it comes to islam.

but i've been to afghanistan, right after the fall of the taliban. i've spent a lot of time talking to afghani women. trust me when i tell you that the taliban is far, far worse than the RCC. for starters, under the taliban, it was illegal for women to be educated. a woman unaccompanied by a male relative would be beaten, etc., etc.


It's just a matter of degree. Oppression is oppression is oppression. Western women have fought against many of the more flagrant treatments. It wasn't so long ago that American women couldn't be educated or own property or vote. I never lose sight of the fact that if we weren't constantly fighting to keep those rights, religious-minded folks would try to take those rights away from women, and oppress them to the point of Afghani women.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:17 AM   #26
 
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I am pro-life and do not think the pregnant woman's life means squat, so RCW, I think your comment is unfair. That's grossly distorted to say the pro-lifers don't care about the mother and only care about the baby.

If you truly cared about the plight of women, you wouldn't want to take away their rights and give them to a fetus.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:17 AM   #27
 
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I am pro-life and do not think the pregnant woman's life means squat, so RCW, I think your comment is unfair. That's grossly distorted to say the pro-lifers don't care about the mother and
If I'm being honest, I have to say that from my perspective, when I talk to other anti-choice people, I don't get the feeling that they care at all about the mother.

I say this simply because whenever I've talked to them about abortion, if it comes down to the baby or the mother, they choose the baby every time unless it's a VERY clear cut case that the mother's going to die.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:22 AM   #28
 
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When abortion is illegal, girls women who can't afford to travel resort to back-alley abortions. These procedures often kill both the pregnant girls and women and the fetuses.

If you take the phrase literally, virtually everyone is "pro life." And virtually everyone wishes that abortions occurred less frequently. I think the best way to prevent abortion is to increase access to other options. We need better prophylactic education for teens, and better social services to assist pregnant women and mothers.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:24 AM   #29
 
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It's not bait. It's true. So many christians are on a high horse, thinking they are oh-so-much better than that terrible Taliban and Islam, when in reality, the christian religion is every bit as oppressive to women as Islam.
i grew up catholic and am no longer catholic or christian for a myriad of reasons, particularly the catholic church's retrograde treatment of women. and i agree that americans, in general, and christians in particular, can be incredibly smug and condescending when it comes to islam.

but i've been to afghanistan, right after the fall of the taliban. i've spent a lot of time talking to afghani women. trust me when i tell you that the taliban is far, far worse than the RCC. for starters, under the taliban, it was illegal for women to be educated. a woman unaccompanied by a male relative would be beaten, etc., etc.


It's just a matter of degree. Oppression is oppression is oppression. Western women have fought against many of the more flagrant treatments. It wasn't so long ago that American women couldn't be educated or own property or vote. I never lose sight of the fact that if we weren't constantly fighting to keep those rights, religious-minded folks would try to take those rights away from women, and oppress them to the point of Afghani women.
First you say the Catholic Church is just like the Taliban, now it's a matter of degree (and the post I just quoted really seems to contradict your initial comments). But anyway, your dislike for anything having to do with Christianity is pathological. Whether you like religion or not is your prerogative, but any rational, well-thought out arguments you make go right out the window when this sort of stuff comes in.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:29 AM   #30
 
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I am pro-life and do not think the pregnant woman's life means squat, so RCW, I think your comment is unfair.
Cricket, just so you know, "...do not think the pregnant woman's life means squat" makes it sound like you think it's worth less than squat. What you really meant became clear from the context. However, you may want to edit it, as someone may hastily respond.
Are you for real?
I had no idea you were so detail minded and nitpicky.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:31 AM   #31
 
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^^^ I have often copped on these boards to being detail-minded and nitpicky.

I was trying to be helpful, not bossy. Several other people in this thread have pointed out similar ambiguities or typos in other posts. It's a very controversial topic, and a simple misinterpretation on the part of a reader can quickly spin out of hand. However, I was not telling you to edit that post, or even saying that you should.

Last edited by Eilonwy; 03-05-2009 at 09:34 AM.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:32 AM   #32
 
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RCW is often unfair in her characterizations of Christians, which do not represent all of us.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:34 AM   #33
 
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^^^ I have often copped on these boards to being detail-minded and nitpicky.

I was trying to be helpful, not bossy. Several other people in this thread have pointed out similar ambiguities or typos in other posts. It's a very controversial topic, and a simple misinterpretation on the part of a reader can quickly spin out of hand.
Well you must be a bundle of laughs IRL.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:36 AM   #34
 
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Well you must be a bundle of laughs IRL.
Spell out "in real life." Abbreviating such a short phrase looks lazy.

Yeah ok I'd better add an emoticon:
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:42 AM   #35
 
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I am pro-life and do not think the pregnant woman's life means squat, so RCW, I think your comment is unfair.
Cricket, just so you know, "...do not think the pregnant woman's life means squat" makes it sound like you think it's worth less than squat. What you really meant became clear from the context. However, you may want to edit it, as someone may hastily respond.
Are you for real?
I had no idea you were so detail minded and nitpicky.
To be honest, when I read your post it DID sound like you were saying that the woman wasn't worth squat...
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:44 AM   #36
 
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The words might, but it's one of those things where I knew what she meant.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:46 AM   #37
 
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THREAD CHANGE:

Grammarchat. Post the nitpickiest details you got.


When you're talking about loudness, "forte" has two syllables. When you're talking about a personal strength, "forte" has one syllable.

In the phrase "ye olde," "ye" means "the," and should be pronounced as "the." The letter y is an old way of rendering the rune for the "th" sound in print.



Seriously, forget I said anything. Let's talk about pregnant 9-year-olds and the Brazilian taliban some more.

Last edited by Eilonwy; 03-05-2009 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:48 AM   #38
 
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The words might, but it's one of those things where I knew what she meant.
But in a topic as hot as abortion, it's better to be as clear as possible. Eilonwy was just trying to be helpful
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:49 AM   #39
 
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The words might, but it's one of those things where I knew what she meant.
Same here. That one sentence alone makes it sound like the woman doesn't matter. reading the entire post clarified it for me.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:53 AM   #40
 
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Back to topic: The Church, and everyone else needs to stay out of it. How about the kids who are already here?
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