Abortion thread: 9yo victim pregnant

I can't? And where did I say she'd be "better off?" I specifically said:

It's compounding her troubles by just adding another kind of trauma into her life.
It's a case of choosing the lesser of two evils, so to speak. Hard choice.
Originally Posted by Phoenix
Hard choice? How can anyone look at the situation this little girl is in and have any difficulty in deciding what to do?
I said...


It's compounding her troubles by just adding another kind of trauma into her life.

It's a case of choosing the lesser of two evils, so to speak. Hard choice.
Originally Posted by Phoenix
Don't misrepresent what I said. Carrying a child one was forced to conceive would be more awful than I can imagine.

But the solution isn't to just kill it. "It" is still a life that's every bit as valuable as any other. I do believe abortion is murder. And I don't think murdering an innocent is ever the answer. I just don't.
Originally Posted by Phoenix
If you think carrying it is awful and are against abortion, what do you suggest she do?

Honestly, I do not think abortion should be in the public arena at all. It is a private decision.
You cannot invite someone to your house in the Hamptons and when she arrives, not let her stay. Tacky. Very Tacky. ~ East Village hipster.

People in Ward Three disdain three things: cleavage, hunting and dumb people who are richer than they are. ~ David Brooks


Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it. ~Armaments 2:9-21

I said...


It's compounding her troubles by just adding another kind of trauma into her life.

It's a case of choosing the lesser of two evils, so to speak. Hard choice.
Originally Posted by Phoenix
Don't misrepresent what I said. Carrying a child one was forced to conceive would be more awful than I can imagine.

But the solution isn't to just kill it. "It" is still a life that's every bit as valuable as any other. I do believe abortion is murder. And I don't think murdering an innocent is ever the answer. I just don't.
Originally Posted by Phoenix
we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. what you see as "compounding her troubles" i see as relieving said troubles.
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There are multiple reasons for this girl to be traumatized. But I don't see the abortion as helping, at least not as much as others might see. It's compounding her troubles by just adding another kind of trauma into her life.

Women who've had abortions often suffer a lot of guilt afterward. Not always. And given the attention this case is getting and the power that the Catholic church holds in Brazil, she might feel particularly affected.
Originally Posted by Phoenix
I have to disagree with this. She's just a little girl, and I think carrying the pregnancy to term and giving birth, raising twins would be far more traumatic than terminating the pregnancy. Assuming she even made it through the pregnancy healthily.
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A little beside the point here but a just a general wondering...

if a 9 year old can get pregnant then I think chances are she can probably deliver. Why would mother-nature have it so one can get pregnant at an age when they can't naturally deliver the babies because they aren't 'physically' capable of delivering?

I read the youngest person to have a baby ever is like 5 years old. Again, it was in Brazil (or maybe Mexico). The baby was fine and she was fine (physically).

Now please don't come to me with the BS about me thinking a 5 year having a baby is or is not wrong. That's not part of my discussion or my point. I'm just sayin.
I said...


It's compounding her troubles by just adding another kind of trauma into her life.

It's a case of choosing the lesser of two evils, so to speak. Hard choice.
Originally Posted by Phoenix
Don't misrepresent what I said. Carrying a child one was forced to conceive would be more awful than I can imagine.

But the solution isn't to just kill it. "It" is still a life that's every bit as valuable as any other. I do believe abortion is murder. And I don't think murdering an innocent is ever the answer. I just don't.
Originally Posted by Phoenix
we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. what you see as "compounding her troubles" i see as relieving said troubles.
Originally Posted by journotraveler

Agreed.
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Oh, and what Vagabond said in her post on page 3.
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"It" is still a life that's every bit as valuable as any other.
Originally Posted by Phoenix
Well... that's kind of the crux of the pro- vs anti-choice debate, isn't it? (And I sincerely doubt anyone here is going to change anyone else's mind on the subject...)
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I would also bet the step father was abusing the mother in some way or another.

What gets me in these stories is that the men's behavior is glossed over.
You cannot invite someone to your house in the Hamptons and when she arrives, not let her stay. Tacky. Very Tacky. ~ East Village hipster.

People in Ward Three disdain three things: cleavage, hunting and dumb people who are richer than they are. ~ David Brooks


Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it. ~Armaments 2:9-21

A little beside the point here but a just a general wondering...

if a 9 year old can get pregnant then I think chances are she can probably deliver. Why would mother-nature have it so one can get pregnant at an age when they can't naturally deliver the babies because they aren't 'physically' capable of delivering?
Originally Posted by Vagabond Davotchka
I don't know why mother nature would do that, but I do know that women in Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, India, and other devloping nations often develop fistulas during birth because their bodies are too small to deliver a baby naturally (c-sections aren't an option in a lot of very poor, often rural areas).

These fistulas are internal tears that cause the women to constantly leak urine and sometimes feces through their vaginas. They can sometimes be repaired but if they can't even get a c-section, getting a fistula repaired isn't going to be an option. And even if they did find someone to repair the fistula, there's no guarantee the repair will be permanent.
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Rock on with your bad self.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Be excellent to each other. ~ Abraham Lincoln

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
A little beside the point here but a just a general wondering...

if a 9 year old can get pregnant then I think chances are she can probably deliver. Why would mother-nature have it so one can get pregnant at an age when they can't naturally deliver the babies because they aren't 'physically' capable of delivering?
Originally Posted by Vagabond Davotchka
I don't know why mother nature would do that, but I do know that women in Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, India, and other devloping nations often develop fistulas during birth because their bodies are too small to deliver a baby naturally (c-sections aren't an option in a lot of very poor, often rural areas).

These fistulas are internal tears that cause the women to constantly leak urine and sometimes feces through their vaginas. They can sometimes be repaired but if they can't even get a c-section, getting a fistula repaired isn't going to be an option. And even if they did find someone to repair the fistula, there's no guarantee the repair will be permanent.
Originally Posted by PartyHair
yes. it's also a big problem in ethiopia, as well. there's a special hospital in addis set up especially for fistula patients. there's a lot of social stigma for them, and they are often abandoned.
3B corkscrews with scatterings of 3A & 3C.

Hmmm...See, I don't. I think you can feel it in a home, especially mothers.



There are multiple reasons for this girl to be traumatized. But I don't see the abortion as helping, at least not as much as others might see. It's compounding her troubles by just adding another kind of trauma into her life.

Women who've had abortions often suffer a lot of guilt afterward. Not always. And given the attention this case is getting and the power that the Catholic church holds in Brazil, she might feel particularly affected.
Originally Posted by Phoenix
You don't think being forced to be a NINE YEAR OLD MOTHER would be traumatizing???

Honestly I think this is just a no-win kind of situation.

ETA: I guess we both agree on that last point... but we might not agree on what the lesser of two evils is. Given the fact that she might not even have survived the pregnancy, IMO it's pretty clear-cut.
Originally Posted by Gemini13
Please tell me WHERE you got that. Even if I hadn't explicitly said,

There are multiple reasons for this girl to be traumatized.
you still could not have gotten that from my posts. Anywhere. At all.

And saying it's a no-win situation isn't much different than saying it's a choice b/t the lesser of two evils. So how can you say we disagree on that point?
Originally Posted by Phoenix
It was kind of a rhetorical question... The poor girl is going to be traumatized no matter what.

I think you misunderstood my last point. I said we were agreeing that it was a no-win situation... the girl is screwed no matter what... but I don't believe that continuing with the pregnancy was an option, whereas it sounds like you do.
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There's no "tough choice" here. She's nine years old. An abortion where she'll be knocked out is going to be far less traumatic than pregnancy, labor, delivery, and the raising of twins before the kid is out of elementary school. She's already traumatized enough from being raped by her stepfather. She shouldn't have things compounded by having to give birth and raise those kids.
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Posts: 156
A little beside the point here but a just a general wondering...

if a 9 year old can get pregnant then I think chances are she can probably deliver. Why would mother-nature have it so one can get pregnant at an age when they can't naturally deliver the babies because they aren't 'physically' capable of delivering?
Originally Posted by Vagabond Davotchka
I don't know why mother nature would do that, but I do know that women in Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, India, and other devloping nations often develop fistulas during birth because their bodies are too small to deliver a baby naturally (c-sections aren't an option in a lot of very poor, often rural areas).

These fistulas are internal tears that cause the women to constantly leak urine and sometimes feces through their vaginas. They can sometimes be repaired but if they can't even get a c-section, getting a fistula repaired isn't going to be an option. And even if they did find someone to repair the fistula, there's no guarantee the repair will be permanent.
Originally Posted by PartyHair
Interesting. I was thinking that maybe girls have their period younger now because of the diet and the hormones in meat and dairy and the fluerocarbons and toxins in plastics and such - and I do believe that as it has been scientifically proven to do so.

but that doesn't account for the young girls being able to get pregnant in other countries at an early age because they don't have this junk.

Sorry for the off-topic. Just wondering.
I can't? And where did I say she'd be "better off?" I specifically said:

It's compounding her troubles by just adding another kind of trauma into her life.
It's a case of choosing the lesser of two evils, so to speak. Hard choice.
Originally Posted by Phoenix
Hard choice? How can anyone look at the situation this little girl is in and have any difficulty in deciding what to do?
Originally Posted by jeamaria
How can anyone not at least wrestle with the options and their consequences, especially considering the abortion aftermath many women (and girls) experience?

She and her mother may - I don't know for sure - feel that a fetus is a full-fledged human life. That would make the decision tough.

Do you disagree that having an abortion can also be traumatizing?

I said...


It's compounding her troubles by just adding another kind of trauma into her life.

It's a case of choosing the lesser of two evils, so to speak. Hard choice.
Originally Posted by Phoenix
Don't misrepresent what I said. Carrying a child one was forced to conceive would be more awful than I can imagine.

But the solution isn't to just kill it. "It" is still a life that's every bit as valuable as any other. I do believe abortion is murder. And I don't think murdering an innocent is ever the answer. I just don't.
Originally Posted by Phoenix
If you think carrying it is awful and are against abortion, what do you suggest she do?

Honestly, I do not think abortion should be in the public arena at all. It is a private decision.
Originally Posted by iara
I don't know. I think this is another case where you don't really know what you'd do until you're faced with the situation yourself.

I was thinking about it and don't believe I'd make her get an abortion or make her keep the baby. I wouldn't force my wishes on her. Yes, I'd pray about it...for anyone who's wondering. I'd probably encourage her to put the baby up for adoption, but give her freedom to make a decision for herself. Of course, I wouldn't leave it all up to her. She's only 9 and it's a hard decision for adults, much less kids. But I would support my child no matter what. That doesn't mean I'd like every choice she made. I wouldn't judge her... For what? If she wanted to have an abortion, honestly though, I'd understand that.
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Thanks ^^
You cannot invite someone to your house in the Hamptons and when she arrives, not let her stay. Tacky. Very Tacky. ~ East Village hipster.

People in Ward Three disdain three things: cleavage, hunting and dumb people who are richer than they are. ~ David Brooks


Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it. ~Armaments 2:9-21


You don't think being forced to be a NINE YEAR OLD MOTHER would be traumatizing???

Honestly I think this is just a no-win kind of situation.

ETA: I guess we both agree on that last point... but we might not agree on what the lesser of two evils is. Given the fact that she might not even have survived the pregnancy, IMO it's pretty clear-cut.
Originally Posted by Gemini13
Please tell me WHERE you got that. Even if I hadn't explicitly said,

There are multiple reasons for this girl to be traumatized.
you still could not have gotten that from my posts. Anywhere. At all.

And saying it's a no-win situation isn't much different than saying it's a choice b/t the lesser of two evils. So how can you say we disagree on that point?
Originally Posted by Phoenix
It was kind of a rhetorical question... The poor girl is going to be traumatized no matter what.

I think you misunderstood my last point. I said we were agreeing that it was a no-win situation... the girl is screwed no matter what... but I don't believe that continuing with the pregnancy was an option, whereas it sounds like you do.
Originally Posted by Gemini13
Ah yes. Sorry, I did misunderstand that point.
No MAS.

I am the new Black.

"Hope the Mail are saving space tomorrow for Samantha Brick's reaction piece on the reactions to her piece about the reactions to her piece." ~ Tweet reposted by Rou.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Kimshi4242

http://www.tumblr.com/blog/kimshi4242
OK...read... we must've been posting simultaneously, Iara
No MAS.

I am the new Black.

"Hope the Mail are saving space tomorrow for Samantha Brick's reaction piece on the reactions to her piece about the reactions to her piece." ~ Tweet reposted by Rou.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Kimshi4242

http://www.tumblr.com/blog/kimshi4242
I don't know. I think this is another case where you don't really know what you'd do until you're faced with the situation yourself.

I was thinking about it and don't believe I'd make her get an abortion or make her keep the baby. I wouldn't force my wishes on her. Yes, I'd pray about it...for anyone who's wondering. I'd probably encourage her to put the baby up for adoption, but give her freedom to make a decision for herself. Of course, I wouldn't leave it all up to her. She's only 9 and it's a hard decision for adults, much less kids. But I would support my child no matter what. That doesn't mean I'd like every choice she made. I wouldn't judge her... For what? If she wanted to have an abortion, honestly though, I'd understand that.
Originally Posted by Phoenix
But, I thought her life was at risk if she did not abort.
You cannot invite someone to your house in the Hamptons and when she arrives, not let her stay. Tacky. Very Tacky. ~ East Village hipster.

People in Ward Three disdain three things: cleavage, hunting and dumb people who are richer than they are. ~ David Brooks


Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it. ~Armaments 2:9-21

A little beside the point here but a just a general wondering...

if a 9 year old can get pregnant then I think chances are she can probably deliver. Why would mother-nature have it so one can get pregnant at an age when they can't naturally deliver the babies because they aren't 'physically' capable of delivering?
Originally Posted by Vagabond Davotchka
I don't know why mother nature would do that, but I do know that women in Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, India, and other devloping nations often develop fistulas during birth because their bodies are too small to deliver a baby naturally (c-sections aren't an option in a lot of very poor, often rural areas).

These fistulas are internal tears that cause the women to constantly leak urine and sometimes feces through their vaginas. They can sometimes be repaired but if they can't even get a c-section, getting a fistula repaired isn't going to be an option. And even if they did find someone to repair the fistula, there's no guarantee the repair will be permanent.
Originally Posted by PartyHair
Interesting. I was thinking that maybe girls have their period younger now because of the diet and the hormones in meat and dairy and the fluerocarbons and toxins in plastics and such - and I do believe that as it has been scientifically proven to do so.

but that doesn't account for the young girls being able to get pregnant in other countries at an early age because they don't have this junk.

Sorry for the off-topic. Just wondering.
Originally Posted by Vagabond Davotchka
It was only a little off-topic, and a really good question.

As journotraveler mentioned above, these women who suffer fistulas are stigmatized and often thrown out of their homes, or made to live in a shed or other outbuilding - they smell awful all the time, not surprisingly, and are seen as "unclean".

There was a great article in the NYT the other day about this exact topic and how to get these women help.
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