Abortion thread: 9yo victim pregnant

As journotraveler mentioned above, these women who suffer fistulas are stigmatized and often thrown out of their homes, or made to live in a shed or other outbuilding - they smell awful all the time, not surprisingly, and are seen as "unclean".

There was a great article in the NYT the other day about this exact topic and how to get these women help.
Originally Posted by PartyHair
I can't even BEGIN to imagine... that's so horrible.
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I was thinking about it and don't believe I'd make her get an abortion or make her keep the baby. I wouldn't force my wishes on her. Yes, I'd pray about it...for anyone who's wondering. I'd probably encourage her to put the baby up for adoption, but give her freedom to make a decision for herself. Of course, I wouldn't leave it all up to her. She's only 9 and it's a hard decision for adults, much less kids. But I would support my child no matter what. That doesn't mean I'd like every choice she made. I wouldn't judge her... For what? If she wanted to have an abortion, honestly though, I'd understand that.
but why would you burden a nine-year-old with that kind of decision???? i have an 8-year-old niece. she's not equipped to make that sort of decision now, and she certainly wouldn't be equipped to make that kind of decision a year from now. plus, at that age, a little girl's body is not equipped to handle a pregnancy.

if she's a teenager, then, yes, you respect whatever decisions she makes, even if you disagree with her. but a child? no way. that's a parent's job, to protect their child, to do the heavy-lifting in this kind of situation.

and no, i don't believe an abortion has to be traumatizing, or painful. a responsible, ethical doctor will perform anesthesia. it's a medical procedure. again, how she deals with this will be largely determined by how the adults in her life deal with it.
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There are multiple reasons for this girl to be traumatized. But I don't see the abortion as helping, at least not as much as others might see. It's compounding her troubles by just adding another kind of trauma into her life.

Women who've had abortions often suffer a lot of guilt afterward. Not always. And given the attention this case is getting and the power that the Catholic church holds in Brazil, she might feel particularly affected.
Originally Posted by Phoenix


Pregnancy and birth are much more traumatizing than abortion. And, it hasn't been my experience that women who have had abortions "suffer a lot of guilt". A few do, but most women feel intense relief at not being pregnant anymore when they've had an unwanted/unplanned pregnancy.
A little beside the point here but a just a general wondering...

if a 9 year old can get pregnant then I think chances are she can probably deliver. Why would mother-nature have it so one can get pregnant at an age when they can't naturally deliver the babies because they aren't 'physically' capable of delivering?

I read the youngest person to have a baby ever is like 5 years old. Again, it was in Brazil (or maybe Mexico). The baby was fine and she was fine (physically).

Now please don't come to me with the BS about me thinking a 5 year having a baby is or is not wrong. That's not part of my discussion or my point. I'm just sayin.
Originally Posted by Vagabond Davotchka
Mother nature is also the mother of irony. It doesn't always make sense. The world is full of creatures who die either during the mating process or after delivery. Not to mention all the deformities, mutations, diseases and other conditions not productive for life.

ETA: Hope I'm not too late. Thinking more about this though. Hormones are release during sex consensual or not. Perhaps the influx of those hormones can bring on early puberty? I'm no expert. Just a thought.

Last edited by cympreni; 03-05-2009 at 01:44 PM.
This kid is 9 years old, she was raped by her stepfather, and carrying a child at such a young age puts her in extremely perilous medical position. If it were my kid, or someone I knew, I wouldn't be able to get her to a doctor fast enough in order to terminate. IMO, there is no other option.
The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is never enough of anything to satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics - Thomas Sowell
I was thinking about it and don't believe I'd make her get an abortion or make her keep the baby. I wouldn't force my wishes on her. Yes, I'd pray about it...for anyone who's wondering. I'd probably encourage her to put the baby up for adoption, but give her freedom to make a decision for herself. Of course, I wouldn't leave it all up to her. She's only 9 and it's a hard decision for adults, much less kids. But I would support my child no matter what. That doesn't mean I'd like every choice she made. I wouldn't judge her... For what? If she wanted to have an abortion, honestly though, I'd understand that.
but why would you burden a nine-year-old with that kind of decision???? i have an 8-year-old niece. she's not equipped to make that sort of decision now, and she certainly wouldn't be equipped to make that kind of decision a year from now. plus, at that age, a little girl's body is not equipped to handle a pregnancy.

if she's a teenager, then, yes, you respect whatever decisions she makes, even if you disagree with her. but a child? no way. that's a parent's job, to protect their child, to do the heavy-lifting in this kind of situation.

and no, i don't believe an abortion has to be traumatizing, or painful. a responsible, ethical doctor will perform anesthesia. it's a medical procedure. again, how she deals with this will be largely determined by how the adults in her life deal with it.
Originally Posted by journotraveler
Excellent post
The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is never enough of anything to satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics - Thomas Sowell
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves It's fine with me if you feel that way. With a few rare sect exceptions, I think all of the "big 3" religions are oppressive for women. I'll go even further and say that women who participate in these religions are participating in the worldwide oppression of other women...If women are ever to be truly equal to men, religion will have to be eliminated from our governments, and even from our societies.



How do you feel about something like Reform Judaism? The TaNaKh is not taken literally at all. They do the thing where women do male things but men [i]don't[i] do female things. However, Reform Judaism is focused on assimilating to modern society. So when that double standard starts changing throughout modern society, Reform Judaism will change to keep up with it.

So would that be ok? Or are the Abrahamic religions irredeemably suffused with misogyny?

Because women can hold positions of full-and-equal power to men within reformed judaism, I see it as one of those "few rare exceptions" to the big-3 oppressive religions.
Journo-

I wouldn't, as said, burden her with the sole responsibility of the decision. But I do think that at 9, you are able to give your input and state your feelings on such a matter. Someone forcing her to do what she didn't want to was largely the cause of the problem. I wouldn't want to do that again.

Red-

People who feel that abortions are merely terminating pregnancies might not feel guilt. People who feel (or come to feel) they have destroyed a human life are more likely to feel guilt.
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Journo-

I wouldn't, as said, burden her with the sole responsibility of the decision. But I do think that at 9, you are able to give your input and state your feelings on such a matter. Someone forcing her to do what she didn't want to was largely the cause of the problem. I wouldn't want to do that again.
Originally Posted by Phoenix
She is a CHILD. Her critical thinking skills are nowhere near developed enough to be able to make this type of decision.

High school girls who have babies so often tell researchers that, despite having younger siblings, despite having seen friends have babies young, they are just amazed at how difficult it is to physically birth a baby, not to mention actually RAISE the baby. And these girls are nearly twice this nine year old's age.

Honestly, in my opinion, letting a nine year old child make a decision like that is very nearly child abuse. Plus there are HUGE physical risks at letting a very small, very young child deliver a baby. Why would you want your daughter to go through that?
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wow, well that sure is a great example of why abortions should remain legal.
Originally Posted by frau
Not only legal, but private. To me, it's not a political issue. It's an intenesly private medical( and yes, moral) decision that should not be open to public debate.
Originally Posted by Scarlet
I agree with you.

My best friend has a nine year old daughter.
She is a very bright girl,but no way could she give "input" on a decision like this.
I think the right thing was done.
I have to read up more on the churches involvement in this.
I am not familiar with the church in Brazil.
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Last edited by Mar; 03-05-2009 at 01:52 PM.
Journo-

I wouldn't, as said, burden her with the sole responsibility of the decision. But I do think that at 9, you are able to give your input and state your feelings on such a matter. Someone forcing her to do what she didn't want to was largely the cause of the problem. I wouldn't want to do that again.
Originally Posted by Phoenix
She is a CHILD. Her critical thinking skills are nowhere near developed enough to be able to make this type of decision.

High school girls who have babies so often tell researchers that, despite having younger siblings, despite having seen friends have babies young, they are just amazed at how difficult it is to physically birth a baby, not to mention actually RAISE the baby. And these girls are nearly twice this nine year old's age.

Honestly, in my opinion, letting a nine year old child make a decision like that is very nearly child abuse. Plus there are HUGE physical risks at letting a very small, very young child deliver a baby. Why would you want your daughter to go through that?
Originally Posted by PartyHair
Which is why I said

I wouldn't, as said, burden her with the sole responsibility of the decision. But I do think that at 9, you are able to give your input and state your feelings on such a matter
You mean you wouldn't even ask her OPINION on the matter?
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A teenager twice her age is not well-equipped to have a baby far less a 9 year old. I don't care how much support she got, she and the kids would both be damaged beyond belief. A 9 year old is a small child whose mental faculties are far from developed enough to deal with such a big decison. that is why kids have parents, although this child's mother ostensibly failed her.

The only way I could imagine the little girl wanting to keep these babies would be if she thought they would be like two little dolls to play with.

Kids that age can choose their clothes and toys, they are in no position to make a choice to keep a baby. That has to be done by a responsible adult/group of adults, and I am thankful they made the right decision in this delicate situation.
Journo-

I wouldn't, as said, burden her with the sole responsibility of the decision. But I do think that at 9, you are able to give your input and state your feelings on such a matter. Someone forcing her to do what she didn't want to was largely the cause of the problem. I wouldn't want to do that again.
Originally Posted by Phoenix
She is a CHILD. Her critical thinking skills are nowhere near developed enough to be able to make this type of decision.

High school girls who have babies so often tell researchers that, despite having younger siblings, despite having seen friends have babies young, they are just amazed at how difficult it is to physically birth a baby, not to mention actually RAISE the baby. And these girls are nearly twice this nine year old's age.

Honestly, in my opinion, letting a nine year old child make a decision like that is very nearly child abuse. Plus there are HUGE physical risks at letting a very small, very young child deliver a baby. Why would you want your daughter to go through that?
Originally Posted by PartyHair
Which is why I said

I wouldn't, as said, burden her with the sole responsibility of the decision. But I do think that at 9, you are able to give your input and state your feelings on such a matter
You mean you wouldn't even ask her OPINION on the matter?
Originally Posted by Phoenix
No. I would explain to her as gently as I could what was going to happen.

Carrying a child to term and birthing the child could KILL her, or cause major physical damage (not to mention the emotional trauma). Would YOU ask your child her opinion on having her appendix out if it was ready to burst?
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It's not the same.
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hypothetical situation being my 9 year old daughter is just found to be pregnant by her stepfather/rapist - - there would be no opinion or choice. It would just be something that would have to be done.
You mean you wouldn't even ask her OPINION on the matter?
Originally Posted by Phoenix
SHE IS A NINE YEAR OLD CHILD. What opinion does she get in this particular instance? She didn't get an opinion when her monster of a stepfather decided to rape her. So let's not pretend that a nine year old has free choice in any and all matters, OR that those opinions or choices will be good for her. She can have an opinion of whether she wants the "Barney" Flintstones vitamin or the "Dino" Flintstones vitamin - that's a choice a nine year old can make without too much issue. But whether or not to have an abortion at age nine? Whether or not to go through pregnancy, labor and delivery and raise twin babies? No, that's not something she should have to decide on or have an opinion. It's time to let the adults in her life guide her on something this enormous.
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I was reading the local paper down there and there is a similar case with an 11 year old girl. She was also raped by her step father. She is keeping her baby.

Both step fathers have been arrested. I will say that child abusers do not fare well in prisons in Brazil.


cympreni, I think you might be right about the hormones. I knew a girl in school who was more developed than we were. She started sleeping with boys at a young age. Even at a young age we knew she was getting the bad touch at home.
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She and her mother may - I don't know for sure - feel that a fetus is a full-fledged human life. That would make the decision tough.

Do you disagree that having an abortion can also be traumatizing?


I was thinking about it and don't believe I'd make her get an abortion or make her keep the baby. I wouldn't force my wishes on her. Yes, I'd pray about it...for anyone who's wondering. I'd probably encourage her to put the baby up for adoption, but give her freedom to make a decision for herself. Of course, I wouldn't leave it all up to her. She's only 9 and it's a hard decision for adults, much less kids. But I would support my child no matter what. That doesn't mean I'd like every choice she made. I wouldn't judge her... For what? If she wanted to have an abortion, honestly though, I'd understand that.
Originally Posted by Phoenix
It's also been shown that many women face trauma, guilt and anxiety after giving children up for adoption, especially if they are forced or compelled to do so.

I would think that having to carry and birth the babies and then give them away would be horrible as well, for a 9 year old. She probably would see them much like dolls or puppies. I am all for adults making the decision to carry a child and give it up for adoption, but this is also beyond the capacity of a child.
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There are no easy answers. The consequences of EVERY possible decision will be difficult.
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