View Poll Results: How do you feel about abortion?
1. It's wrong/murder in any case 16 15.69%
2. Okay for rape/incest only 6 5.88%
3. A woman's legal right to choose 75 73.53%
4. Not sure; on the fence 5 4.90%
Voters: 102. You may not vote on this poll

How do you feel about Abortion?

As far as when does life begin I believe it begins at conception. Other wise wouldn't the deffintion of a fetus be a paricite (sp) and I don't think I could bond with a paricite (sp again) like I did with my baby while I was pregnant.
Originally Posted by picklesgirl
First of all, a parasite is always a living creature, by definition. So if life begins at conception, that would not preclude the embryo from being a parasite.

Second, according to the Dictiobnary.com definition of parasite (see below), an embryo or fetus does certainly fit the bill. There can be emotional benefits and it benefits the survival of the species, but being pregnant does not help you as an individual organism.

par·a·site (păr'ə-sīt')
n.

1. Biology. An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.
Originally Posted by geeky
I knew what the deffintion of a parAsite is (just didn't know how to spell it ) anyway that's why I made that connection. Because even though you love the baby growing inside of you it's not really contributing anything to survival of the mother.. I don't think that babies are parasites I believe it's a baby from the time it's concieved. I was just saying that if you don't believe that then it's like believing that they are nothing more than a parasite. That's all I was sayin
I'm not pro abortion, but I am pro-choice. So, my take is, a woman has the right to do what she thinks is best, but, I'd only be okay with abortion in situations like incest, if the pregnancy poses a health risks, and rape.
I don't think that babies are parasites I believe it's a baby from the time it's concieved. I was just saying that if you don't believe that then it's like believing that they are nothing more than a parasite. That's all I was sayin
Originally Posted by picklesgirl
OK, I gotcha. SO you're saying that you think not just life begins at conception, but it is YOUR BABY from conception. Makes sense.

Me, I did feel he was a sorta cute little parasite until he was born. Doesn't mean I love him any less now. I wonder how I will feel with a subsequent pregnancy, now that I've had a kid - will I bond to the baby more while pregnant?
To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
I pray none of you ever has to live in a communist state.

Geeky is my hero. She's the true badass. The badass who doesn't even need to be a badass. There aren't enough O's in cool to describe her.
I don't think that babies are parasites I believe it's a baby from the time it's concieved. I was just saying that if you don't believe that then it's like believing that they are nothing more than a parasite. That's all I was sayin
Originally Posted by picklesgirl
OK, I gotcha. SO you're saying that you think not just life begins at conception, but it is YOUR BABY from conception. Makes sense.

Me, I did feel he was a sorta cute little parasite until he was born. Doesn't mean I love him any less now. I wonder how I will feel with a subsequent pregnancy, now that I've had a kid - will I bond to the baby more while pregnant?
Originally Posted by geeky
oh thank god you get what I was trying to say you are one of those people that I don't want to argue with
you are one of those people that I don't want to argue with
Originally Posted by picklesgirl
Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing :P
To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
I pray none of you ever has to live in a communist state.

Geeky is my hero. She's the true badass. The badass who doesn't even need to be a badass. There aren't enough O's in cool to describe her.
If you belief a fetus is a life from the get-go, then you can't really find abortion to be okay, but otherwise, it's almost like a non-issue.
Originally Posted by Rheanna83
Before this gets out of control, I just wanted to address this point. I believe life starts at conception and I *do* believe abortion is ok, so I've proved your point wrong.

My feeling is that it's my body. If I have something growing inside MY BODY that I don't want there, I should be able to get rid of it, period. Until it's able to live outside my body on its own, it's part of me and I can do with it what I please. Murder? Maybe, but still my right since it relies on my body for its survival. Once it no longer relies on my body for its survival, then I feel it's murder in the traditional sense.
If you belief a fetus is a life from the get-go, then you can't really find abortion to be okay, but otherwise, it's almost like a non-issue.
Originally Posted by Rheanna83
Before this gets out of control, I just wanted to address this point. I believe life starts at conception and I *do* believe abortion is ok, so I've proved your point wrong.

My feeling is that it's my body. If I have something growing inside MY BODY that I don't want there, I should be able to get rid of it, period. Until it's able to live outside my body on its own, it's part of me and I can do with it what I please. Murder? Maybe, but still my right since it relies on my body for its survival. Once it no longer relies on my body for its survival, then I feel it's murder in the traditional sense.
Originally Posted by Sweet Curly
This is my belief, also. And by life, I mean there is something there that exists. I don't believe that the life is the same as life after birth.
3c/4a
From a guy's perspective:

I would never tell a woman they were wrong for having an abortion.

On a personal level, if I were ever to have impregnated a woman, I would have felt it was 'my baby' from the moment of conception. It would never have been a possibility in my mind to abort it.

If I had impregnated one of my girlfriends, and they wanted to have an abortion... let's just say, that's a conflict of the two statements I made above that I'm glad I never had to face. It would have absolutely killed me, but I don't know how much of a fight I could have put up. I'm really, really glad I was never put in that situation. Specifically, because when it's a boyfriend/girlfriend situation... 'ownership' of that child is a little more imbalanced than a husband/wife situation.

I'm glad I'm at the point in my life where I'm going to be in a loving, married situation, and won't ever have to think about it on a personal level again.
...a little straight-haired testosterone on the curlygirly bored.
I'm so glad to see that the fire bombing hasn't started yet. I am pro-choice. To me, that means that I am in favor and respect any choice. I know people on one end of the spectrum who believe that abortion is wrong and evil and anyone who has one or who is in favor of abortion will go to hell. I know people on the other end of the spectrum who believe that in the situation of an unexcepted pregnancy where the circumstances aren't perfect, abortion is the only option. I think if you're going to wave the pro-choice flag, you have to respect and not judge anyone for any choices that they make.
Formerly known as colomunky.
I'm so glad to see that the fire bombing hasn't started yet. I am pro-choice. To me, that means that I am in favor and respect any choice. I know people on one end of the spectrum who believe that abortion is wrong and evil and anyone who has one or who is in favor of abortion will go to hell. I know people on the other end of the spectrum who believe that in the situation of an unexcepted pregnancy where the circumstances aren't perfect, abortion is the only option. I think if you're going to wave the pro-choice flag, you have to respect and not judge anyone for any choices that they make.
Originally Posted by colomunky
Although we disagree about it, meaning I am pro-life, I completely see your point and agree 100% with what you're saying.

I also agree with the poster who said from conception to natural death, pro life (sorry, I don't remember who that was ) but I would never stand outside a clinic or bomb a clinic. HOw is that "pro life"? I could never do it, I feel like it is wrong... but when someone else is in that situation, that's between them, their partner/spouse/whatever and their beliefs, not mine.

I don't think they're going to hell. It's not up to us to judge that in ANY case or situation.
If you belief a fetus is a life from the get-go, then you can't really find abortion to be okay, but otherwise, it's almost like a non-issue.
Originally Posted by Rheanna83
Before this gets out of control, I just wanted to address this point. I believe life starts at conception and I *do* believe abortion is ok, so I've proved your point wrong.

My feeling is that it's my body. If I have something growing inside MY BODY that I don't want there, I should be able to get rid of it, period. Until it's able to live outside my body on its own, it's part of me and I can do with it what I please. Murder? Maybe, but still my right since it relies on my body for its survival. Once it no longer relies on my body for its survival, then I feel it's murder in the traditional sense.
Originally Posted by Sweet Curly
Oops.. forgot to address this... All I meant was that if you saw that life as equal to that, say of a newborn, you would find abortion to be murder. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

Now, regarding what you said, does that mean you are for "late term" or "partial birth abortions" because in those cases, the fetus could live outside the body most time.. The earliest I know of was a woman who was 4 1/2 months along and went into labor. The child is now 5 and basically caught up and fine...

I'm not asking to be rude or anything; I hope it doesn't come off that way... I'm just curious about what exactly you meant.
I bonded with my baby very early on. Before I even consciously knew I was pregnant, really, but after I knew, for sure. It's difficult for me to not think of abortion as murder.

HOWEVER, abortions will always take place, just like drugs, drinking, speeding while driving. That's why I strongly believe in legalization. When something is outlawed, a black market develops. That's economics. When a black market develops for abortions, you then run the risk of both the baby and the mother dying. I'm also for legalizing marijuana and prostitution.
If you belief a fetus is a life from the get-go, then you can't really find abortion to be okay, but otherwise, it's almost like a non-issue.
Originally Posted by Rheanna83
Before this gets out of control, I just wanted to address this point. I believe life starts at conception and I *do* believe abortion is ok, so I've proved your point wrong.

My feeling is that it's my body. If I have something growing inside MY BODY that I don't want there, I should be able to get rid of it, period. Until it's able to live outside my body on its own, it's part of me and I can do with it what I please. Murder? Maybe, but still my right since it relies on my body for its survival. Once it no longer relies on my body for its survival, then I feel it's murder in the traditional sense.
Originally Posted by Sweet Curly
Oops.. forgot to address this... All I meant was that if you saw that life as equal to that, say of a newborn, you would find abortion to be murder. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

Now, regarding what you said, does that mean you are for "late term" or "partial birth abortions" because in those cases, the fetus could live outside the body most time.. The earliest I know of was a woman who was 4 1/2 months along and went into labor. The child is now 5 and basically caught up and fine...

I'm not asking to be rude or anything; I hope it doesn't come off that way... I'm just curious about what exactly you meant.
Originally Posted by Rheanna83
For *me*, I wouldn't be able to abort a fetus that was able to live outside my body on its own because for *me*, there is a difference there. I know that basically in the first 3, 4 or 5 months where the average fetus couldn't survive outside the body (and I'm talking naturally here, not with the help of all kinds of machines) *I* would be ok with my own personal abortion. After that point I'd probably go ahead and have the baby and give it up, unless of course there were an issue of my health, then I give my personal health priority over a fetus, especially in an unwanted pregnancy. However, I'm still pro-choice on that matter because even though *I* couldn't do it, that doesn't mean that another woman wouldn't choose to and until that baby is born naturally I think she has the right to make that decision for herself.
If you belief a fetus is a life from the get-go, then you can't really find abortion to be okay, but otherwise, it's almost like a non-issue.
Originally Posted by Rheanna83
Before this gets out of control, I just wanted to address this point. I believe life starts at conception and I *do* believe abortion is ok, so I've proved your point wrong.

My feeling is that it's my body. If I have something growing inside MY BODY that I don't want there, I should be able to get rid of it, period. Until it's able to live outside my body on its own, it's part of me and I can do with it what I please. Murder? Maybe, but still my right since it relies on my body for its survival. Once it no longer relies on my body for its survival, then I feel it's murder in the traditional sense.
Originally Posted by Sweet Curly
Oops.. forgot to address this... All I meant was that if you saw that life as equal to that, say of a newborn, you would find abortion to be murder. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

Now, regarding what you said, does that mean you are for "late term" or "partial birth abortions" because in those cases, the fetus could live outside the body most time.. The earliest I know of was a woman who was 4 1/2 months along and went into labor. The child is now 5 and basically caught up and fine...

I'm not asking to be rude or anything; I hope it doesn't come off that way... I'm just curious about what exactly you meant.
Originally Posted by Rheanna83
For *me*, I wouldn't be able to abort a fetus that was able to live outside my body on its own because for *me*, there is a difference there. I know that basically in the first 3, 4 or 5 months where the average fetus couldn't survive outside the body (and I'm talking naturally here, not with the help of all kinds of machines) *I* would be ok with my own personal abortion. After that point I'd probably go ahead and have the baby and give it up, unless of course there were an issue of my health, then I give my personal health priority over a fetus, especially in an unwanted pregnancy. However, I'm still pro-choice on that matter because even though *I* couldn't do it, that doesn't mean that another woman wouldn't choose to and until that baby is born naturally I think she has the right to make that decision for herself.
Originally Posted by Sweet Curly

I don't know how I would react if the Dr. told me that if I carried on with a pregnancy I wouldn't survive I mean how do I say that my life is more important than the baby that is growing in me. But at the same time is it really fair to leave my husband to grieve and raise two children. I pray I never have to make that choice.

I also don't know what I would decided if the Dr. told me that there was something wrong with the baby and that I should abort because the baby has a major defect I mean who am I to say that that child shouldn't have a chance although at the same time is it really fair to the child to have to go through life with serious health problems (or whatever the case may be,) if I knew ahead of time and could have ended it then. I was watching this show one time called The boy whose skin fell off (or atleast I think that was the name of it, it was something like that) Anyway it was about this man who had that skin disease where he all these skin infections and like his skin would flake off. There was this part where it was him and his mom talking and one of them had mentioned a test that they can do or will be able to do that determines if the baby has this disease and he told his mom that he wishes she would have had that test done and then she could have terminated the pregnancy and he said something about suggesting that if women get this test and it turns out that their baby would have this disease to terminate the pregancy he said no body deserves to live like he has. It was interesting to hear that prospective. Anyway that's also a choice I pray I never have to make

here's a link that gives a little info on the doumentary
http://www.justgiving.com/jonnykennedy
[/u]
I bonded with my baby very early on. Before I even consciously knew I was pregnant, really, but after I knew, for sure. It's difficult for me to not think of abortion as murder.

HOWEVER, abortions will always take place, just like drugs, drinking, speeding while driving. That's why I strongly believe in legalization. When something is outlawed, a black market develops. That's economics. When a black market develops for abortions, you then run the risk of both the baby and the mother dying. I'm also for legalizing marijuana and prostitution.
Originally Posted by Chocolate Curls
I completely see your point and agree, to a point. The issue that always comes up for me is the fact that, if it is a life equal to that of any life, then aborting it, if you feel that way, is murder. It seems that is the agreement here anyway, unless I am mis-reading every post It seems as though most people agree that it does somewhat depend on when "life" begins and when that life is just like ANY human life. Am I right here?

Either way, the problem that comes up for me is the fact that I do believe it's equal to any life and therefore making it legal just because people will do it whether it is (legal) or not is like saying we should make it legal to kill ANYone, because to ME a fetus' life and John Doe's life are equal. It's illegal and wrong for me to go kill John Doe, so why isn't it for me to kill the baby growing inside of me?

I hope that makes sense... I can't think of how exactly to describe what I mean. I am aware that lots of you do not think an unborn child is equivalent to a newborn child for example, at least not in the early stages where they look and act nothing like a child... This question is really not for those people - I'm mainly addressing the people who feel it is wrong, that it is murder, but still think it should be legal. I see your points in saying it's for an individual to decide and I agree to a point, BUT it still comes down to the question of... should we just have anarchy then? Let people "decide" if it's okay to kill this person, or run over that person, or go rob a bank and if they don't feel that it's wrong, then it should be okay?

I'm trying to grasp this concept and not offend anyone with what I'm saying. It's a very hard thing to think about and talk about. I really really respect the fact that so far *fingers crossed* there have been no blow ups or anything!

And thanks to everyone for making it that way! See, I think we CAN have a civil conversation about this.
I'm pro-choice

I of course believe a fetus is alive. Eggs and sperm are alive too. There is no moment when life begins, for me. Life exists on a continuum. Embryos are alive because the cells that they originated from were alive too. We are all alive because life began on earth billions of years ago and was passed down from cell to cell over time.

For me, this is not an issue of when life begins, but whether fetal rights should trump women's rights. For me, a woman has more rights than an embryo or fetus.

If life begins at conception, and a fetus has equal rights to a woman, then what? Because women don't know when they conceive and because any female within a 40 year age range could become pregnant, even possibly if they believe they are infertile, then we must assume every woman is potentially pregnant under this system. This means that no woman between menarche and menopause has true, unalienable rights to her own body. To me that is wrong. It is unethical.

To force a woman to carry another person inside her body against her will is unethical to me. You cannot force a person to make other medical decisions even when it saves another life, such as donating a kidney, so why is it ok in this case?

Even if abortion is outlawed, it will continue to happen. Tens of thousands of women around the world die every year from unsafe abortion. How is that "pro-life?" So I believe women have the right to safe, legal abortion.

And if you outlaw abortion, where do you draw the line? What if the fetus is not viable, because of genetic reasons such as trisomy 13? What if the fetus threatens a woman's health? What if a woman finds out she has cancer during pregnancy or is mentally unstable? In some countries, a woman cannot even terminate an ectopic pregnancy legally--she either has to wait until her fallopian tube ruptures or until there is no sign of life in the embryo. I think that is wrong. And when abortion is illegal, who do you prosecute? Should physicians and nurses have to report women who they suspect had an abortion? In some countries, women can be thrown in prison, sometimes charged with murder, for ending a pregnancy. Is that right? Health care workers can be jailed if they do not report an abortion, even though it breaches confidentiality and deters many women from seeking medical care when needed.

If you define abortion as preventing a fertilized egg from implanting, then how does this impact access to certain birth control methods and the morning after pill?

So whose rights are more important? A woman or an embryo/ fetus? It cannot be equal. Who has rights over the woman's body, the woman herself, or the embryo/fetus that she is carrying? To me, that is what this comes down to.

Either way, the problem that comes up for me is the fact that I do believe it's equal to any life and therefore making it legal just because people will do it whether it is (legal) or not is like saying we should make it legal to kill ANYone, because to ME a fetus' life and John Doe's life are equal. It's illegal and wrong for me to go kill John Doe, so why isn't it for me to kill the baby growing inside of me?

I hope that makes sense... I can't think of how exactly to describe what I mean. I am aware that lots of you do not think an unborn child is equivalent to a newborn child for example, at least not in the early stages where they look and act nothing like a child... This question is really not for those people - I'm mainly addressing the people who feel it is wrong, that it is murder, but still think it should be legal. I see your points in saying it's for an individual to decide and I agree to a point, BUT it still comes down to the question of... should we just have anarchy then? Let people "decide" if it's okay to kill this person, or run over that person, or go rob a bank and if they don't feel that it's wrong, then it should be okay?
Originally Posted by Rheanna83
I have wondered the same things. I understand what you are saying.

As I said earlier, I am pro life. But there was a time when I was pro-choice. I always felt abortion was murder...but I supported other women's rights to choose to have an abortion. How could I? I never thought about it until recently. But when I forced myself to be honest, these were my reasons:

1) it is the "hip" enlightened position to take. Who wants to be prudish and stuck in pre-1960 female subservience? Who wants to be "I am Woman, hear me change diapers and do laundry?" You want to bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, pop a BC pill and have sex like a man! To me, it was tantamount to being a Black person who said "yes massa" and shined White people's shoes. Dammit, we fought for this! Who is this little b@stard inside me to cost me that promotion or to tie me down or make me less free? That kind of feminist rhetoric; I'd be a traitor to my gender, otherwise!

2) even though the idea of aborting my own fetus was repugnant...deep down, I had to support that "right" because, well, I never really knew...if I might ever need one. I mean, I was 99.999999% sure I'd never do *that* but what if I found myself in a 1 in a 1,000,000 situation? Why take the option off the table completely, you know.

Well, those were my reasons why I could justify being pro-choice even when in my heart, I knew abortion is killing your own offspring. (Maybe other people have different reasons, though.)

Anyway, I decided eventually that I couldn't play both sides of the table like that. I was trying to support something I honestly could not justify and I knew was wrong, like the person who looks the other way when her husband cheats on the family taxes or something so they can have more money to go on vacation. No matter how you try to spin it and pretty it up, it just isn't right, imo.
3b (with 3c tendencies) on modified CG

To force a woman to carry another person inside her body against her will is unethical to me.
To me there is something fundamentally wrong when we women start viewing our own babies as merely "another person" growing "inside"' our own bodies.

The miracle that women have been blessed with to bring life into the world is not and should not be seen as a burden, a problem to be solved, or a dilemna of weighing rights.

I don't know, is it that we women have bought into the sexism of our society and now we too do not value ourselves, motherhood, or even our own children?
One woman's miracle is another woman's burden. Not all woman are cut out for motherhood. I'm quite traditional and old-fashioned, I enjoy roles that are traditionally "women's work". I also feel like certain aspects of feminism HAS hurt us as women. OTOH, I am also childfree by choice. Just because I have a womb doesn't mean I need to use it.

I am adamantly pro-choice. I don't believe abortion should be used as primary birth control (yes, I've know people that have had 4-5), but I believe it should continue to be safe and legal alternative to an unwanted pregnancy.

edited for clarity

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