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Old 07-20-2009, 08:40 AM   #81
 
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The mom seems to be doing the child's hair just to hear her scream and I think that's what most people are reacting to. It really seems like that they were sitting around and said "Hey, let's get a video of ___ screaming and hollering while you do her hair!"

If the lady in the vid is the mother, surely, that's not the first time she's attempted to comb that child's hair, yet, she grabbed a paddlebrush and started to repeated brush the same spots over and over. It was enitrely unproductive.

I do understand the tenderheaded arguments, though, and if the mom was actually "doing" the child's hair while she was crying--as in making parts, actually combing, making braids/twists-- and not belittling the child as she went, I'd have more sympathy for her.
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Old 07-20-2009, 08:58 AM   #82
 
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The mom seems to be doing the child's hair just to hear her scream and I think that's what most people are reacting to. It really seems like that they were sitting around and said "Hey, let's get a video of ___ screaming and hollering while you do her hair!"

If the lady in the vid is the mother, surely, that's not the first time she's attempted to comb that child's hair, yet, she grabbed a paddlebrush and started to repeated brush the same spots over and over. It was enitrely unproductive.

I do understand the tenderheaded arguments, though, and if the mom was actually "doing" the child's hair while she was crying--as in making parts, actually combing, making braids/twists-- and not belittling the child as she went, I'd have more sympathy for her.
THIS POST.

ITA x1,000,000

That's the thing; she is not even attempting to "style" the hair. She is basically just attacking the baby with the hairbrush and spray bottle.

NOBODY can sit here and tell me after seeing that video that it's "just a matter of tenderheadedness" when the woman CLEARLY does not even have a goal in mind...."goal" meaning a styled head of hair. Again, she is just randomly attacking the baby's mane with the hairbrush.

"Tenderheaded' needs to be banned from the vocabulary, for real. I got so sick of being called that as a child (I had a huge 3b mane long enough to sit on by age 5; I can't begin to count the number of people who thought--and STILL think--that you could comb that length and texture with a small-toothed comb from root to tip w/out any obstacles)
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Old 07-20-2009, 09:36 AM   #83
 
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Wonder what's going to happen to the mother now?

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What's that video under your siggy? One of the Village People?

To be honest I don't know. I copped it from a user over at Nappturality becuase I thought it was hilarious.

I believe it's from Chappelle's Show
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Old 07-20-2009, 09:38 AM   #84
 
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granted, I didn't watch the entire video but I don't think that those of us who are mentioning our own experiences are doing so to say that it isn't abuse.

Personally, after reading the posts in thread, the video was as bad as I thought it would be. It was bad, but it didn't bring me to tears.

It made me think of..

1) the scene from the Color Purple

2) my own experiences

3) I still think that man who adopted the girl from Ethopia and learned to do her hair deserves credit. This video supports it
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Old 07-20-2009, 09:45 AM   #85
 
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just want to add that when i was a baby, i also had thick dry hair. not as big as that baby, but a little similar. my mom has 1B hair and had no idea how to handle my hair. yes there were times where she was a bit rough but she tried to be as gentle as possible. she figured out at that the only way to comb my hair was at night while i slept. she comb my hair as i sleep till i was like, 7 or 8. how could you let a baby cry so much... i'm so heart broken
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Old 07-20-2009, 10:08 AM   #86
 
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I didn't click on the link, I am too sensitive to want to see it and it sounds horrible from the responses.

Can't the site it is posted on see what IP address the clip was from?


i agree. i was too scared to watch the video. however, i watched the responses from viewers on you tube about how that video should be flagged and how someone should report this mom. even though i did not watch the video, it seems like the she was pissed at her daughter and was brushing her hair to punish her, or she was tired of taking care of her daughters hair. she obviously did not care at all. i wish i could slap that lady (she's not being a mom at all, so i won't call her one.) karma will bite her in the a$$.
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Old 07-20-2009, 10:22 AM   #87
 
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There are some child care and grooming tasks that I have to do with my kids that they don't like. E.g. cutting finger and toe nails, wiping dirty hands and faces, changing diapers. I do those as quickly and painlessly as I can, and sure as hell don't make a video of their distress.
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Old 07-20-2009, 10:23 AM   #88
 
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It made me think of..

1) the scene from the Color Purple
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Old 07-20-2009, 10:51 AM   #89
 
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I am surprised by 2 things in this discussion:

1. that detangling hair with conditioner and a wide toothed comb from tip to root is such a revelation to so many people - I just assumed everyone knows that. I know my mama did. I don't think I've ever had my hair done any other way.

2. that for some people, detangling hair this way puts a complete end to any pain and discomfort. I guess that's where having a tender scalp comes in, because for me, that method just lessens pain - it certainly does not end it, for myself or for my son. Maybe it is because we have thick and dense hair, but it knots up very easily and forms locks almost overnight, and so it's not like a wide-tooth comb glides through it even with conditioner - you have to stop and work out the snarls with the comb and your fingers and there will be some pulling and the residual smarting of the scalp that rainshower described. I have yet to find a way around this happening or a way to eliminate discomfort in getting the snarls out.
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:06 AM   #90
 
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Yeah it's interesting rough detangling has happened to a lot of White curlies as well. And I saw that too on the youtube video where the person was being all crazy "you must not be Black, that's how kinky hair is supposed to be detangled" and trying to discredit White people into not speaking out. It was funny when they got their butt handed to them when Black people were telling them I AM Black AND I have that hair type and what you are saying is not true.

And attempting to discredit people on basis of race from talking about this is completely brain dead anyway becuase White Black or Green can tell that isn't how you detangle ANY texture of hair. And I hate that she and others probably discouraged some White people from talking about this by making them question whether they should get involved in the discussion becuase they can't understand or don't know what their talking about.

Honestly I believe White Guilt is a prominent reason why this hasn't already been on a major network (that and Missing Blond White Woman Syndrome meaning anyone else is out of luck if they want news coverage when their in pain or missing). Someone pointed out if this had been a little White girl and/or White mom (heck a cat) this would already be on NBC, CBS, ABC, Telemundo, BBC, and Dateline. And the mom would be in jail awaiting trial.

And that we lost one more person to that ridiculous nonsense- "Maybe I'm wrong, maybe that IS how kinky hair is supposed to be detangled. I would think the people with the hair type know best." And then went on their merry way with this bad information to be pulled out in future. In the course of this thing I have seen far too many people who got silenced becuase they felt their opinion didn't count. Which is why I'm glad to see not everybody is cowed about talking about issues that are supposed to be outside their understanding. I do think there are some racial and color motives and cuases in this specific case that can't be ignored. BUT at the end of the day abuse is abuse.
thanks for saying this - i think this is where the idea white privilege (if that phrase makes sense how i worded it - not trying to debate) can be an issue - some white people might not feel it is there place to speak up since "they wouldnt understand" - like the one poster put. so THIS would be an example of why i get frustrated of separating the races. ok end rant :P

yeah i dont condone it, and no i wont do my kiddos hair that way.
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:07 AM   #91
 
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In seeing this on various places on the net, I'm surprised at the number of people who think this is ok or normal.

If I brushed my cat like that, I'd be reported for animal abuse. I don't see why it is somehow OK for a kid.

Sadly, as KK said, abuse and violence are common experiences in child raising in the Black community and have been for generations thanks to slavery and colonialism, so that's probably why. Many people went through this themselves. There are also huge issues with hair type and hair in general - a lot of self-hatred and internalized racism. It doesn't really surprise me for that reason. I'm not even getting into the issue of single/young mothers not equipped for the stresses of parenthood.
This spanned the racial spectrum. There were white, black, and bi-racial posters in the "you're over-reacting" camp.

I see your point and KK's point, but the nay-sayers were of all groups.
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:13 AM   #92
 
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Yeah it's interesting rough detangling has happened to a lot of White curlies as well. And I saw that too on the youtube video where the person was being all crazy "you must not be Black, that's how kinky hair is supposed to be detangled" and trying to discredit White people into not speaking out. It was funny when they got their butt handed to them when Black people were telling them I AM Black AND I have that hair type and what you are saying is not true.

And attempting to discredit people on basis of race from talking about this is completely brain dead anyway becuase White Black or Green can tell that isn't how you detangle ANY texture of hair. And I hate that she and others probably discouraged some White people from talking about this by making them question whether they should get involved in the discussion becuase they can't understand or don't know what their talking about.

Honestly I believe White Guilt is a prominent reason why this hasn't already been on a major network (that and Missing Blond White Woman Syndrome meaning anyone else is out of luck if they want news coverage when their in pain or missing). Someone pointed out if this had been a little White girl and/or White mom (heck a cat) this would already be on NBC, CBS, ABC, Telemundo, BBC, and Dateline. And the mom would be in jail awaiting trial.

And that we lost one more person to that ridiculous nonsense- "Maybe I'm wrong, maybe that IS how kinky hair is supposed to be detangled. I would think the people with the hair type know best." And then went on their merry way with this bad information to be pulled out in future. In the course of this thing I have seen far too many people who got silenced becuase they felt their opinion didn't count. Which is why I'm glad to see not everybody is cowed about talking about issues that are supposed to be outside their understanding. I do think there are some racial and color motives and cuases in this specific case that can't be ignored. BUT at the end of the day abuse is abuse.
thanks for saying this - i think this is where the idea white privilege (if that phrase makes sense how i worded it - not trying to debate) can be an issue - some white people might not feel it is there place to speak up since "they wouldnt understand" - like the one poster put. so THIS would be an example of why i get frustrated of separating the races. ok end rant :P

yeah i dont condone it, and no i wont do my kiddos hair that way.
I don't get that vibe from this board. But, I do feel it in the Youtube comments and the Cafemom comments.

Yeah, there are some things that I may not "get" all the way because I'm white. But, to me, this seemed to be straight up abusive.
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:21 AM   #93
 
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Originally Posted by Amneris View Post
I am surprised by 2 things in this discussion:

1. that detangling hair with conditioner and a wide toothed comb from tip to root is such a revelation to so many people - I just assumed everyone knows that. I know my mama did. I don't think I've ever had my hair done any other way.

2. that for some people, detangling hair this way puts a complete end to any pain and discomfort. I guess that's where having a tender scalp comes in, because for me, that method just lessens pain - it certainly does not end it, for myself or for my son. Maybe it is because we have thick and dense hair, but it knots up very easily and forms locks almost overnight, and so it's not like a wide-tooth comb glides through it even with conditioner - you have to stop and work out the snarls with the comb and your fingers and there will be some pulling and the residual smarting of the scalp that rainshower described. I have yet to find a way around this happening or a way to eliminate discomfort in getting the snarls out.
As for #1, I know no one in my family knew it. But, I also had the knottiest (and curliest)hair by far in the family. The attitude was just that I had difficult hair and that I had to put up with it. I'm not sure why everyone, including myself, just accepted that.

Hell, I never had hair past chin length until I left home because I too thought that I just had weird, difficult hair that was too tangly to grow.
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:30 AM   #94
 
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In seeing this on various places on the net, I'm surprised at the number of people who think this is ok or normal.

If I brushed my cat like that, I'd be reported for animal abuse. I don't see why it is somehow OK for a kid.

if anyone brush their cat or dog like that, their pet would turn on them real quick.
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:35 AM   #95
 
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In seeing this on various places on the net, I'm surprised at the number of people who think this is ok or normal.

If I brushed my cat like that, I'd be reported for animal abuse. I don't see why it is somehow OK for a kid.

if anyone brush their cat or dog like that, their pet would turn on them real quick.
Good point.
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:41 AM   #96
 
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Truthfully, it has little to do with the hair for me. Don't get me wrong: the way she's combing it, the way she's so unsympathetic to her daughter is awful. what makes it abuse for me is the swearing at her, the telling her she's nobody. That's abusive.
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Old 07-20-2009, 02:46 PM   #97
 
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Originally Posted by FieryCurls;
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Originally Posted by kindredspirit1983;
I don't see child abuse
Then what do you see?
Its hard to explain....my hair was brushed the same way, sitting between my mom's legs while she pulled and yanked in various directions. I got so used to it though and never thought of myself as being abused through hair combing *shrug*

It was very hard for me to hear was the mother was saying to her daughter over the music. But if there was cussing and name calling then THAT makes it child abuse. Because of the forceful nature of it.....kind of like force/fast feeding a baby while angry
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Old 07-20-2009, 03:22 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Amneris View Post
I am surprised by 2 things in this discussion:

1. that detangling hair with conditioner and a wide toothed comb from tip to root is such a revelation to so many people - I just assumed everyone knows that. I know my mama did. I don't think I've ever had my hair done any other way.

2. that for some people, detangling hair this way puts a complete end to any pain and discomfort. I guess that's where having a tender scalp comes in, because for me, that method just lessens pain - it certainly does not end it, for myself or for my son. Maybe it is because we have thick and dense hair, but it knots up very easily and forms locks almost overnight, and so it's not like a wide-tooth comb glides through it even with conditioner - you have to stop and work out the snarls with the comb and your fingers and there will be some pulling and the residual smarting of the scalp that rainshower described. I have yet to find a way around this happening or a way to eliminate discomfort in getting the snarls out.
My hair gets knotted and matted and those knots get mats and knots. My ends are wrapped around each other - I swear they are tied in bows sometimes. I have little knots on the end of my hair and it gets caught from there. I have to add tons of conditioner and start at the ends and then the middle before I can even touch my roots. I don't have a tender scalp and I don't have much eczema on my scalp but I do get patches on my hips that crack and bleed so I can just imagine what detangling would be like if it were on my scalp.
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Old 07-20-2009, 03:32 PM   #99
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FieryCurls;
Quote:
Originally Posted by kindredspirit1983;
I don't see child abuse
Then what do you see?
Its hard to explain....my hair was brushed the same way, sitting between my mom's legs while she pulled and yanked in various directions. I got so used to it though and never thought of myself as being abused through hair combing *shrug*
Just because it happened to you doesn't make it ok for it to happen to someone else.

Something is wrong with that woman if she thinks "combing" her child's hair so hard the kid's head gets yanked back and forth is an ok thing to do.
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Old 07-20-2009, 04:03 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by FieryCurls;

Then what do you see?
Its hard to explain....my hair was brushed the same way, sitting between my mom's legs while she pulled and yanked in various directions. I got so used to it though and never thought of myself as being abused through hair combing *shrug*
Just because it happened to you doesn't make it ok for it to happen to someone else.

Something is wrong with that woman if she thinks "combing" her child's hair so hard the kid's head gets yanked back and forth is an ok thing to do.
I agree.

A lot of children can become "accustomed" to abuse, because it was how they were "raised". That doesn't make it right.
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