Yes, the "elitist and silly" comment seemed odd and didn't make sense to me.

The airlines' bread and butter is not vacationing families, with or without children, it's business travel. Providing business class is a way to offer a more comfortable option to people who are in the air several days a week (like my ex), and it's also a way (through "frequent flyer" type free upgrades) to reward those valuable customers who, because of their work schedule demands, usually can't use discounts, make advance reservations, take advantage of special deals, etc.

And I feel sorry for the frequent business traveler for whom a trip is work, not pleasure, who has to constantly deal with badly behaved children in tight places. Day after day after day. So maybe business class shouldn't allow small children after all. I guess there's no fair way to do it.

It makes sense to me. Everyone else gets crammed in like sardines, doesn't get a snack or decent service even after paying an arm or a leg... and the wealthy few get way better space and services... and now some of them don't even want to hear or see kids?

If your job is expecting you to fly somewhere and then work right away, maybe their scheduling is the issue and they should spring a few extra of their ample bucks to fly you out the night before and put you up in a hotel.

I think drunk/rude adults have caused more problems on planes than kids.

Should misbehaving children be allowed to fly in business or first class? I just stumbled off of a flight with frazzled nerves, and I'm grumpy. I paid cash to upgrade my work-provided cattle class seat to business. It was an international flight, I was expected to work upon arrival, and I needed to sleep. Also, I'm generally a panicky flyer, and having that extra few inches of space on all sides helps with the whole trapped-in-a-flying-coffin-just-moments-from-death feeling.

On this particular flight, there were six (6) kids in business class. Three were older and well behaved, no problem. The one is front of me was a toddler who occasionally wandered into my space and touched my stuff while his mother gave me her "isn't he ADORABLE" laugh. The other two toddlers were on the other side and several rows back, and they took turns screaming, crying, and chattering loudly the entire flight.

For some reason, the happy pills to help Anthro relax and sleep while strapped on top of several thousand pounds of explosive jet fuel didn't work so well. Needless to say, it's time to work and I feel like I pulled a stressful all-nighter. And I'm out of pocket $$$$. I am very tempted to write the airline and ask for a free upgrade for a future flight.

Kids up front?

My vote is for yes, if they have home training. Long-haul flights across the Pacific suck hosewater no matter what the circumstance, and parents should have the option of adding a little comfort for the family. My coworkers do this frequently, but their kids don't scream for 13 hours in the air.

But I think the whole idea of business class is elitist and silly so I voted the last option.

How on earth would airlines implement a policy that would allow only "well-behaved" children in special seating?

I think when you buy a first class/business class whatever seat, you can expect a bigger seat, more leg room, a little better service (you get to get on the plane first and leave first etc). You don't really get to expect consideration from other passengers or a quiet flight. Any number of things can disrupt a flight, like turbulence and delays.

If your job is expecting you to fly somewhere and then work right away, maybe their scheduling is the issue and they should spring a few extra of their ample bucks to fly you out the night before and put you up in a hotel.

So, by your logic, Amneris, it would also be elitist and silly to have different quality/pricing for seats at the opera or theater? Why should only the wealthy few have the best seats, just because they are able to pay for them? Heck, what about those danged season-ticket holders with the skyboxes at the stadiums?

I say make them sit in the nosebleed section with the rest of us noble-minded folks!!

Silly Amneris. Communism is for kids!

Yes, exactly - I think there is an element of elitism to the arts that make them inaccessible to people who could really enjoy them and benefit from them if not for that. It's absolutely silly to design theatres with sightlines where some people can't even see what's going on.

Then you had better design those theaters pretty small, because no matter how you design a theater, if it holds very many people, someone is going to be sitting far away because they're in the back, on the top, whatever.

Sure... but it doesn't have to be based on price/class - it could be first come/first served or any other option.

And the arts can't support themselves due to falling admissions, in part, anyway, so having tiny theaters should really help with that. Or theaters full of only bad seats, since it isn't possible to have theaters with only good seats, unless they're tiny, etc.

And one of the reasons admission is falling is because people do not see the arts as relevant/necessary and see them as elitist.

In fact, some people argue that all arts are elitist, so let's do away with them. You'll then be out of one of your jobs.

Yes, some people do argue that, but I don't think they are inherently elitist. The way some of them are presented sometimes is. In actual fact the arts are vital to healthy and inclusive communities - there have been tons of studies and experiences to show that.

Amneris, this is one of those times when I think you're arguing just to "hear" yourself argue.

I just want to know how you'd build a theater that had "nothing but *****ty seats?"

"Every section is the nose-bleed section!"

"One and all, bring your binoculars! You can't see ish in our house!"

My husband says, "Obviously there is value in a good seat vs. a bad seat. As long as people are willing to pay those higher prices, then why shouldn't they? If you can't afford it, you do what you can."

Amneris, just curious...in all of your travels to the UK, the US, Trinidad, Caribbean, etc. you always flew business/coach class, right?

You have missed the point entirely. I am not taking issue with your arguing in general. Heck, we all do it all the time on here.

I said you were arguing IN THIS CASE to hear yourself argue because IN THIS CASE, your argument makes no logical sense whatsoever. Not because you don't have the right to argue. And I'm not the first person by a long shot to make this observation about SOME of your arguments.

This was just one of them, to me. And I'm not the only person missing the point of your comments about business class being elitist, either, if you read others' posts.

Again, you're wrong. I don't know what is so illogical about it. I see many valid reasons to my point. Apparently, so do several agencies and departments of my government who cut costs fairly recently by having all their employees and staff fly coach because they said it would not be right and would send the wrong impression when so many ordinary citizens were struggling. I know, we're a communist country and all.

But I do have to laugh -- if this whole board (if they've been reading your numerous, ubiquitous and very lengthy posts for the last how many years) doesn't have some "idea of your political and social beliefs" by now -- then I don't know what to say! Better post some more l so we can get a better idea of what you're all about.

omfg that video. the mother sitting there doing absolutely nothing. as if everyone wants to hear that child scream like that??? omg, i HATE parents like that. i hate you, really.

i took my daughter on a plane before she was 2 and at some point she cried, but i picked her up and gave her some milk so she would be quiet. wth??? what is the point of letting the child cry?? to annoy the rest of the plane. i swear i want to punch that mother straight in her neck. that's how feel. ugh!! die!! now!!

i voted, children should stay the hell out of business class and first class. you want to travel with kids, stay in coach.

and keep your loud ass kids out of the movie theater (unless it's g or pg) and out of the restaurants. just keep em home until you can train them to behave properly.

ugh...disgust.

eta,
my little brother was a crier. nothing you could do would shut him up. he stopped crying when he felt like it. you remember the little boy in the condom video who tore up the grocery store, that was my little brother. my mother was a good parent, but he was just...i don't know, stubborn. here is the thing, we didn't take him places where it would make others uncomfortable or us uncomfortable. it's called consideration.