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scrills 11-04-2009 10:49 AM

Insurance Policies (for a non-cooperative person)
 
I want to get an insurance policy on my dad. I'm sure he doesn't have one and my family has been asking me to get one on him. He's not sick, they are just worried what would happened if something happened to him.

I just found out that my dad's cousin (my 2nd cousin) passed away this week due to renal failure. (I think I'm still in shock). So as the family tries to decipher his insurance policy, it's a reminder to me that I need to worry about my parents.

is it possible to get an insurance policy on someone with little or no cooperation? I'm about 99.9999% sure that my dad won't take a phyisal exams. What are my options?

WileE-Dead 11-04-2009 11:17 AM

How old is your dad?

Guide18 11-04-2009 11:22 AM

It looks as if there are policies available without a physical exam. The premiums would probably be a bit higher.

RedCatWaves 11-04-2009 11:40 AM

You can get life insurance on a person without that person even knowing about it. The premiums will be higher without a physical exam though. If he's over 65, it might not be worth it to get a policy at all, because the premiums are exorbitant for older folks, with or without a physical.

Boomygrrl 11-04-2009 11:43 AM

I'm assuming you're talking about health insurance...or are you talking about life insurance?

scrills 11-04-2009 01:18 PM

Life insurance. My dad is 53

mad scientist 11-04-2009 03:01 PM

You can get life insurance on someone else without them knowing about it? That doesn't seem right. Couldn't you then murder them and collect the benefits (Not YOU Scrills, just in general)?

RedCatWaves 11-04-2009 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mad scientist (Post 1153605)
You can get life insurance on someone else without them knowing about it? That doesn't seem right. Couldn't you then murder them and collect the benefits (Not YOU Scrills, just in general)?


http://www.slate.com/id/2189278/

PixieCurl 11-05-2009 05:50 AM

My husband is an insurance agent and he said you'd at least need a signature from your dad as the "name insured". Though I suppose that might vary from state to state.

PixieCurl 11-05-2009 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedCatWaves (Post 1153649)
Quote:

Originally Posted by mad scientist (Post 1153605)
You can get life insurance on someone else without them knowing about it? That doesn't seem right. Couldn't you then murder them and collect the benefits (Not YOU Scrills, just in general)?


http://www.slate.com/id/2189278/

Yes, my husband mentioned the "insurable interest" thing too, but I told him it was the OP's father.

jeepcurlygurl 11-05-2009 10:04 AM

I personally wouldn't get insurance for someone who doesn't want it. I'm one of the tiny minority of people who don't believe in life insurance, especially huge policies. I know all the arguments - money for funerals, money to put kids thru college, paying off mortgages etc. Sorry, just don't believe in making money on the dead. If I have to pay for my dad's funeral, it will be something that I can afford and nothing more. Kids can put themselves thru college. Survivors can pay off the mortgage or sell the property. But that's just my own feelings about it.
Others should do what makes them comfortable.

scrills 11-05-2009 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mad scientist (Post 1153605)
You can get life insurance on someone else without them knowing about it? That doesn't seem right. Couldn't you then murder them and collect the benefits (Not YOU Scrills, just in general)?

HA!! yeah it doesn't like good that the last 2 threads I started at

1) serial killers in Cleveland
2) getting a life insurance policy on someone without them knowing it


It wouldn't be a big policy, just enough to cover the funeral and the mountain of legal fees I will have sorting out my father's affairs. He lives a complicated life and no one knows who owns what. plus he is living with a woman (they've exchanged rings but they aren't legally married). My dad has agreed (but we haven't done it yet) to give me power of attorney upon death so that I can be in charge of taking care of everything.

again, my dad isn't sick, but with the relatives fighting over how to bury my cousin this week, i realize that I need to think about it. he wanted something simple (cremation), but in their grief, his kids want to have a big funeral/viewing

Guide18 11-05-2009 11:38 AM

Scrills, it's smart of you to think of these things ahead of time. Lots of unexpected things happen in life, and it's good to be prepared.

My father had a neighbor who was struggling with her husband's estate. He had assets all over the place and no list. She found uncashed checks in the house -- big ones, some over $50,000. It turned out that he had never re-made his will after they married, so his old will left his estate to some relatives that weren't even alive any more. It was a real nightmare. I hope your father's affairs aren't that bad, but if they are even a tenth as messed up, you will need legal help for sure!

Edited to add: You should see if you can get a power of attorney that can be invoked if your father becomes incapacitated for some reason. This is especially important since he's not married to the woman he's living with -- he needs a family member to be able to help with medical and financial decisions.

RedCatWaves 11-05-2009 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrills (Post 1154335)
It wouldn't be a big policy, just enough to cover the funeral and the mountain of legal fees I will have sorting out my father's affairs. He lives a complicated life and no one knows who owns what. plus he is living with a woman (they've exchanged rings but they aren't legally married). My dad has agreed (but we haven't done it yet) to give me power of attorney upon death so that I can be in charge of taking care of everything.

again, my dad isn't sick, but with the relatives fighting over how to bury my cousin this week, i realize that I need to think about it. he wanted something simple (cremation), but in their grief, his kids want to have a big funeral/viewing


Considering your dad is only 6 years older than me, it would kinda tick me off if one of my kids was already planning my death. Sounds like his kids are all grown and he's living his life how he wants to. I'd let him.

scrills 11-05-2009 01:33 PM

oh, I don't care what he does, that's not the issue. I get along with his girlfriend/wife. It's the finances that will be an issue.

1) My father partially supports several people (my mom, my sis, his aunt, and now a couple of his brothers live with him). If something goes wrong, they will be coming to me for support. and there are a couple houses that I'm not sure who owns them and where they are in terms of finances (and one is in the multi-million dollar range)

2) The problem is that every time there is a death in the family, are are scrambling to figure out how to pay for the funeral. I want one a policy for both my parents. My mom is ok with it, my dad doesn't believe in Western Medicine = no physical exam.

luvmylocs 11-05-2009 01:38 PM

i work in life insurance. trust me, unless you're wealthy, it's nice to have. funerals and burials are very expensive and it's not the kind of thing you shop around to find a better price on when you need it!!! i've witnessed this first hand. the last thing you want to have to worry about when your loved one dies is how you're going to pay to bury them and what costs you can cut to "save money".

it doesn't sound like you're trying to get a policy to pay for school or buy you a house so i don't see the harm in it, again unless your dad is wealthy and would leave enough to pay for everything but even with that money is often tied up and you wouldn't get access to it for weeks or months after the person has passed.

i DO think it is responsible to get a life insurance policy if you have young kids because that loss of income should a parent die could impact their quality of life and it just feels like the right thing to do for the surviving spouse or parent. of course it's cheaper to buy the younger you are and better to buy before you have any major health issues which will surely jack up your premiums.

you CAN buy life insurance without the person ever knowing but it is tricky and generally frowned upon in the industry now.

the physical required for underwriting is not invasive. they can come to your home or place of business, weigh you, draw blood and get a urine sample. based on your dads age they might order medical records, if he doesn't have them he doesn't have them but the price of the policy will probably be higher given the absence of medical records.

you can get free insurance quotes on-line and that might give you an idea of if it's worth it to you financially to get a policy on your dad of if you want to have a discussion with him about how he would suggest things be handled should he die.

i'm "younger" with no dependents, except for my 2 dogs which i've specified to my parents i wish should be taken care of....anyway, i have a policy. i've told my mother about it and hopefully i'll marry and have kids and it would be there for them. i got a 30 year level term with return on premium so if i live the whole time i'll get a nice check back totalling all the premiums i've paid at the end of the 30 years but if i die during that time my burial at the very least would be taken care of and my family and/or dependents would at least not have to worry about such a great financial loss too. i feel that dealing with these things are not glamorous or fun to talk about but i can tell you it's super hard to have to think about these things and make some decisions when the person dies, especially if it's suddenly like in a car accident or something.

RedCatWaves 11-05-2009 01:44 PM

If anyone I love dies and I get to plan the funeral, they're getting: a casket from Costco (or a piece of plywood and a bolt of linen to wrap), a viewing and memorial service in my living room, a trip to the crematory in the back of my truck, and a vase for the ashes from Pier1 Outlet. Total cost: under $500.

luvmylocs 11-05-2009 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedCatWaves (Post 1154532)
If anyone I love dies and I get to plan the funeral, they're getting: a casket from Costco (or a piece of plywood and a bolt of linen to wrap), a viewing and memorial service in my living room, a trip to the crematory in the back of my truck, and a vase for the ashes from Pier1 Outlet. Total cost: under $500.

your choice which you are entitled to. everyone doesn't feel that way. there are certain costs even to be cremated (i don't know what they are) but i suspect it's at least in the hundreds.

plus that's your view on how you would handle a loved one. what if it was you that passed? does your family know that you'd want the bare bones in burial and even if they do, do they have your estimated $500 to cover it? what if you and your hubby passed together such as a car accident? would your kids be able to (financially) and know how to take care of you and your husbands burial? do they not need any money other than what's in your bank account currently to survive in the short and long term? insurance is clearly for those left behind, not the person who has died so i see it as a way to limit someone burden should i pass.

***eta these were all rhetorical questions that do not need to be answered, just posed for discussion purposes.***

PixieCurl 11-05-2009 01:53 PM

What exactly is it that you'll need money for? I understand that his finances are complicated and you'll need information to sort them out. Has he already granted you power of attorney in his will? If so, as much as it won't be a fun conversation, I'd sit down with him and ask him for detailed paperwork outlining all his assets/finances, and his wishes for them when he passes. As far as what you'll need money for.... attorney, funeral.... anything else? If you'd be paying the premiums on his life insurance policy, you may be better off just investing that money instead so you'll have it set aside when the time comes. Since you have no way of knowing when he'll pass away, maybe you could invest in something like a CD so the money is earning a little more interest than a regular savings account, but will still be relatively liquid. It just seems that at his age and in the absence of an exam, the premiums will be so high that your money might serve you better in another way.

RedCatWaves 11-05-2009 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvmylocs (Post 1154545)
Quote:

Originally Posted by RedCatWaves (Post 1154532)
If anyone I love dies and I get to plan the funeral, they're getting: a casket from Costco (or a piece of plywood and a bolt of linen to wrap), a viewing and memorial service in my living room, a trip to the crematory in the back of my truck, and a vase for the ashes from Pier1 Outlet. Total cost: under $500.

your choice which you are entitled to. everyone doesn't feel that way. there are certain costs even to be cremated (i don't know what they are) but i suspect it's at least in the hundreds.

plus that's your view on how you would handle a loved one. what if it was you that passed? does your family know that you'd want the bare bones in burial and even if they do, do they have your estimated $500 to cover it? what if you and your hubby passed together such as a car accident? would your kids be able to (financially) and know how to take care of you and your husbands burial? do they not need any money other than what's in your bank account currently to survive in the short and long term? insurance is clearly for those left behind, not the person who has died so i see it as a way to limit someone burden should i pass.


Oh, I agree. My kids are still young and do need money, so we have life insurance. I've thought about getting a policy on my ex husband also, because I depend on some of his money and I know he doesn't have me listed as a beneficiary on any of his stuff. I'm just playing devil's advocate to the OP. Her dad isn't all that old and he's apparently married, so the onus probably won't fall on her for quite some time, if at all.


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