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Old 12-01-2007, 07:31 AM   #81
 
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Originally Posted by VTmom
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
...but gravity gets us all in the end.
not planning on it...my new mantra is from the John Mayer song in which he states..."gravity, stay the hell away from me."
Yeah, that's a good one. I'm trying to figure out a way to sleep with my head upside down. I read in the Feb.2007 Shape magazine that Heather Locklear sleeps on her back to avoid wrinkles caused by your face getting smushed in different positions while you sleep. I've got one of those memory foam pillows and try to use it with the larger end under my neck so my face is slightly tilted back while I sleep --but I always wake up on my side. I think I need to get one of those wooden blocks and learn to sleep like a geisha.
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Old 12-01-2007, 11:04 AM   #82
 
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don't forget to use silk pillowcases. will help your face "slide" across the pillow.
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Old 12-03-2007, 08:59 AM   #83
 
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Hi

I'm a relative newbie to this forum, but have been lurking for awhile and recently took the plunge and ordered a sample of DMAE from PSF.

Question - is it causing anyone else to break out? I noticed the beginning of breakouts yesterday after a couple of days of using it (am and pm). This tends to be my problem with most anti-aging products.

Before, I had been experimenting with Paula's Choice, and although I wasn't overly impressed with their efficacy, one of the things I did like is that she consistently identifies her products as being for dry, normal, oily skin, which really helps oily-yet-aging types like me!

Any other experiences like this? Other product recommendations?
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3A - fine, just above shoulder length, w/red color and highlights.

Product: Suave Coconut leave in, Joico Joiwhip mousse, Angell or F/X Curl booster on wet hair. Sometimes rotate in ReCoil/CK.

Routine: Scrunch with cloth diapers, then use Shellynot's clipping method. Diffuse a bit without touching hair. Leave clips in at least half and hour. Remove clips and air dry.

Day 2: Pineapple, no product.

DT once a week with DevaCare OneC





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Old 12-03-2007, 11:09 AM   #84
 
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Originally Posted by kcurls
Hi

I'm a relative newbie to this forum, but have been lurking for awhile and recently took the plunge and ordered a sample of DMAE from PSF.

Question - is it causing anyone else to break out? I noticed the beginning of breakouts yesterday after a couple of days of using it (am and pm). This tends to be my problem with most anti-aging products.

Before, I had been experimenting with Paula's Choice, and although I wasn't overly impressed with their efficacy, one of the things I did like is that she consistently identifies her products as being for dry, normal, oily skin, which really helps oily-yet-aging types like me!

Any other experiences like this? Other product recommendations?

PSF's DMAE is very acidic...I can't imagine why it would cause you to break out. It's extremely drying, though. Even I (the most oily person in the world) am having some troubles with the DMAE causing dry patches now that the weather is cold here.

What are your skin goals? What are you looking to do? What's your skin type and what other products do you currently use?
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:45 PM   #85
 
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no breakouts for me. it has helped my breakouts. i have a few breakouts right now, but they are hormonal and from some other no nos that i did.

i really like the DMAE.


-----

RCW,
since Vit c is acidic, do i have to wait a full 30 minutes before applying it over the DMAE?

thanks!
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Old 12-03-2007, 03:04 PM   #86
 
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RCW,
since Vit c is acidic, do i have to wait a full 30 minutes before applying it over the DMAE?

That's a good question. I do wait the 30 minutes whenever I can before applying PSF's Vit C, because I want every absolute benefit from the DMAE, but you could probably get away with just waiting til the DMAE is dry if you're rushed.
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Old 12-03-2007, 09:30 PM   #87
 
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redcatwaves,

thanks for your response and questions.

I'm 43 and would like to start addressing uneven pigmentation, large pores and fine lines, and would also like my skin to look, well, brighter. I was in the sun a lot as a teen and young adult and I can see it's starting to catch up to me.

I have been experimenting with anti-aging products over the counter products for about a year - Regenerist, Roc, L'Oreal, and they all make me break out.

About 3 months ago I started using some of Paula's products - toner (am and pm), BHA 8% (am), antioxidant gel for oily skin (am and pm) and skin lightening gel (pm).( I also use Neutrogena sun block which, even though heavy, doesn't make my skin break out, since it's a physical barrier, and Cetaphil, but am thinking of changing this due to comments on this forum.) After a while I started to realize that the skin lightening gel might be making me break out (even though it didn't when I used the sample), so I stopped using it. With the remaining products, I haven't been breaking out, but also haven't seen much positive difference in my skin - I am almost done with the anti-o gel and would like to try an alternative, although am willing to keep going with the toner and BHA until I finish them and see if they work in conjunction with other products.

Thus I thought of substituting the DMAE gel for Paula's anti-o and see if I could get more positive results. I have a sample and have been using it for a few days - not expecting results right away, just wanting to see if my skin reacts badly. Which it might be - if it's causing zits. However, I could also chalk the break out up to holiday stress, hormones, etc...it just seems like an interesting coincidence.

So for the last few days my routine has been

AM
warm water wash
toner
BHA (wait 30 min)
DMAE

PM
cetaphil wash - very small amount
toner
DMAE


Phew! that's the story. thanks for listening, and any advice you might have is greatly appreciated.
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3A - fine, just above shoulder length, w/red color and highlights.

Product: Suave Coconut leave in, Joico Joiwhip mousse, Angell or F/X Curl booster on wet hair. Sometimes rotate in ReCoil/CK.

Routine: Scrunch with cloth diapers, then use Shellynot's clipping method. Diffuse a bit without touching hair. Leave clips in at least half and hour. Remove clips and air dry.

Day 2: Pineapple, no product.

DT once a week with DevaCare OneC





ALSO:
"I got a crush on Obama."
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Old 12-03-2007, 11:39 PM   #88
 
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Originally Posted by kcurls
redcatwaves,

thanks for your response and questions.

I'm 43 and would like to start addressing uneven pigmentation, large pores and fine lines, and would also like my skin to look, well, brighter. I was in the sun a lot as a teen and young adult and I can see it's starting to catch up to me.

I have been experimenting with anti-aging products over the counter products for about a year - Regenerist, Roc, L'Oreal, and they all make me break out.

About 3 months ago I started using some of Paula's products - toner (am and pm), BHA 8% (am), antioxidant gel for oily skin (am and pm) and skin lightening gel (pm).( I also use Neutrogena sun block which, even though heavy, doesn't make my skin break out, since it's a physical barrier, and Cetaphil, but am thinking of changing this due to comments on this forum.) After a while I started to realize that the skin lightening gel might be making me break out (even though it didn't when I used the sample), so I stopped using it. With the remaining products, I haven't been breaking out, but also haven't seen much positive difference in my skin - I am almost done with the anti-o gel and would like to try an alternative, although am willing to keep going with the toner and BHA until I finish them and see if they work in conjunction with other products.

Thus I thought of substituting the DMAE gel for Paula's anti-o and see if I could get more positive results. I have a sample and have been using it for a few days - not expecting results right away, just wanting to see if my skin reacts badly. Which it might be - if it's causing zits. However, I could also chalk the break out up to holiday stress, hormones, etc...it just seems like an interesting coincidence.

So for the last few days my routine has been

AM
warm water wash
toner
BHA (wait 30 min)
DMAE

PM
cetaphil wash - very small amount
toner
DMAE


Phew! that's the story. thanks for listening, and any advice you might have is greatly appreciated.

You have a lot of things to accomplish. I could recommend a routine for you, but it won't do much good unless you get rid of that Cetaphil cleanser. It contains detergents which break down your skin barrier, allowing acne-causing bacteria to do their dirty work. There are only 2 decent cleansers that I know of that cleanse well and don't damage the skin barrier, and neither are found in the drug store. They are both castile-based cleansers that have had their pH lowered to a neutral level. PSF sells one (called Castile Cleanser) and so does DianaYvonne.com (called Wheat Germ Oil Cleanser).

All of the OTC anti-aging products (Roc, Regenerist, etc.) are useless. Glorified moisturizers. The only thing that really has been proven to improve fine lines is Retin-A (a prescription retinol...OTC retinols do nothing). Retin-A also has some skin lightening abilities, as well as pore cleansing. There's nothing you can do about the size of your pores...that's genetic. But if you keep them clean and exfoliated, they will appear smaller. BHA is good for keeping pores clean also, but sometimes it's difficult to use acids in conjunction with Retin-A because Retin-A can be irritating.

As for anti-oxidants, the most powerful one is Vitamin C. The mixed products (like Paula's) are usually just bull-crap, so I'm not surprised you aren't seeing much in the way of results. There are plenty of Vit C products out there, and some of them are very good. Cellex-C makes a great Vit C, but it's $90 an ounce. PSF makes one that every bit as good for $45 an ounce. Vit C will help give you a "glow" as well as lightening your hyperpigmentation.

The PSF DMAE I've mentioned on these boards is a skin firmer. It won't do anything for lines, but it's the only product that has proved to firm skin. If you would like to continue using it, you should probably apply it before your BHA. I've been using the DMAE instead of BHA lately, because PSF's DMAE is so acidic it just seems to take the place of BHA. Paula's BHA is an OK product, but it's pH is a little high at 3.5 to be much of an acid, so you could probably use both PSF DMAE and BHA without a problem. If you get too irritated, you can back off on one or the other and use every other day rather than every day.

Toners are damaging at worst, and a waste of money at best, depending on ingredients. If you use a neutral pH cleanser, you don't need a toner at all.

Moisturizers: I notice you didn't list any. I understand, because I have oily skin also and seldom need a moisturizer. If you're going to continue with DMAE and possibly add Retin-A, you're going to need one though. As usual, most of the drug store stuff is crap...with a lot of hidden detergents and ingredients that will compromise the skin barrier. I usually like to see people use biological healing oils. Emu oil is the best, but if you have aversions to animal oil, then jojoba oil is second best. DianaYvonne.com sells a lovely emu oil in either clear or ultra that are great quality and never stinky (as some emu oils can be). Jojoba oils are available in healthfood stores. One or two drops of oil mixed with a little blob of hyaluronic acid makes a perfect moisturizer.

Here's what I would do if I were you:

AM
Cleanse (either with plain water or one of the cleansers I suggest above)
PSF DMAE (wait 30 minutes)
Vitamin C (wait til absorbed...about 10 minutes)
Moisturizer - (emu or jojoba with hyaluronic acid) only if needed
Sunscreen
Makeup

PM
Cleanse
PSF DMAE (wait 30)
Retin-A (start 1-2 times a week and work up)
BHA (wait 30)
Moisturize (emu or jojoba with HA) only if needed

If you decide to try Retin-A, be sure to start with a low dosage and work up to it VERY VERY slowly, because it can be irritating. The results are worth it though. Nothing smooths and clears the skin like Retin-A.
As you may have read here in this forum, Retin-A is available from certain internet drug stores in Mexico (medsmex.com) without a prescription, or from a USA site called Four Corners. I get mine from Mexico, because my health insurance does not cover it and it's expensive. Other people have better healthcare coverage and just get it from their doctors and local pharmacy. It's a great product if you can get it. It the only thing that will "un"do your sun damage.

I hope that helps. Ask if you have any questions.
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Old 12-04-2007, 05:21 AM   #89
 
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RedCatWaves -- FYI... You are my skin guru!! I have little post-it notes with your tips scattered about my bathroom!!

And my skin is looking better -- thanks to you!
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Old 12-04-2007, 06:38 AM   #90
 
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RCW, one question about the castile soap. Have you ever tried the liquid from Trader Joes? I saw it and thought "that would be awfully convenient to get if it is as mild as the one RCW uses."
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Old 12-04-2007, 07:49 AM   #91
 
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RCW,

is retin-a good for acne prone skin? i am thinking about visiting a dermo to get a prescription (i have an excellent HC plan). i keep getting acne on my chin and surrounding area. recently do to a stressful 2 weeks at work, a bad one popped out on my forehead. Ugh

is retin-a good for brown skin?
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Old 12-04-2007, 09:41 AM   #92
 
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Originally Posted by Poodlehead
RCW, one question about the castile soap. Have you ever tried the liquid from Trader Joes? I saw it and thought "that would be awfully convenient to get if it is as mild as the one RCW uses."


You can't use any old castile soap (well, you can, but please don't). Most castiles have a pH of 11 or 12...VERY caustic. That's because they are soap. All soaps have a high pH, that's just the nature of the soap making process. A caustic pH is just as damaging to the skin barrier as detergents are (probably even moreso...that's the reason why detergents were first used as cleansers, because soaps were so harsh). The cleansers I recommend have had their pH lowered to neutral with citric acid, so they are gentle on the skin barrier yet still clean well.
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Old 12-04-2007, 09:42 AM   #93
 
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Originally Posted by Windflower
RCW,

is retin-a good for acne prone skin? i am thinking about visiting a dermo to get a prescription (i have an excellent HC plan). i keep getting acne on my chin and surrounding area. recently do to a stressful 2 weeks at work, a bad one popped out on my forehead. Ugh

is retin-a good for brown skin?

Yup, acne is what Retin-A was invented for. It was just a happy byproduct that it also helps wrinkles. Brown skin can use Retin-A.
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Old 12-04-2007, 10:23 AM   #94
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poodlehead
RCW, one question about the castile soap. Have you ever tried the liquid from Trader Joes? I saw it and thought "that would be awfully convenient to get if it is as mild as the one RCW uses."


You can't use any old castile soap (well, you can, but please don't). Most castiles have a pH of 11 or 12...VERY caustic. That's because they are soap. All soaps have a high pH, that's just the nature of the soap making process. A caustic pH is just as damaging to the skin barrier as detergents are (probably even moreso...that's the reason why detergents were first used as cleansers, because soaps were so harsh). The cleansers I recommend have had their pH lowered to neutral with citric acid, so they are gentle on the skin barrier yet still clean well.
Rats, I knew you'd say that, but was hoping you wouldn't. Thanks!
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Old 12-04-2007, 02:12 PM   #95
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poodlehead
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poodlehead
RCW, one question about the castile soap. Have you ever tried the liquid from Trader Joes? I saw it and thought "that would be awfully convenient to get if it is as mild as the one RCW uses."


You can't use any old castile soap (well, you can, but please don't). Most castiles have a pH of 11 or 12...VERY caustic. That's because they are soap. All soaps have a high pH, that's just the nature of the soap making process. A caustic pH is just as damaging to the skin barrier as detergents are (probably even moreso...that's the reason why detergents were first used as cleansers, because soaps were so harsh). The cleansers I recommend have had their pH lowered to neutral with citric acid, so they are gentle on the skin barrier yet still clean well.
Rats, I knew you'd say that, but was hoping you wouldn't. Thanks!

Sorry. Believe me, I WISH there were good drugstore products and that the cosmetics industry didn't spend so much time lying to us and selling us products that hurt our skin, just so they can then sell us products that don't fix it.
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Old 12-04-2007, 05:42 PM   #96
 
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Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windflower
RCW,

is retin-a good for acne prone skin? i am thinking about visiting a dermo to get a prescription (i have an excellent HC plan). i keep getting acne on my chin and surrounding area. recently do to a stressful 2 weeks at work, a bad one popped out on my forehead. Ugh

is retin-a good for brown skin?
Yup, acne is what Retin-A was invented for. It was just a happy byproduct that it also helps wrinkles. Brown skin can use Retin-A.
Great!
I have a derma appt on Friday at 2:00. I think i am also going to ask for a tri-luma RX.

should i ask for a certain strength of retin-a?

anything else I should ask for while i am there?
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Old 12-05-2007, 07:06 AM   #97
 
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Great!
I have a derma appt on Friday at 2:00. I think i am also going to ask for a tri-luma RX.

should i ask for a certain strength of retin-a?

anything else I should ask for while i am there?

Tri-Luma and a moderate strength of Retin-A sound like a good plan.
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:10 AM   #98
 
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Thanks redcatwaves!

OK I'll give that regimen a try.

Also, just to report back on my original issue - my breakout is clearing up so i am assuming the dmae is not the culprit. Also, my pores are looking a little smaller, somehow, which I assume is the tightening effect of the dmae. So it may work out after all!

Two more questions
-would cetaphil still be appropriate as an eye makeup remover (I use waterproof mascara)
-one thing I didn't mention is that I have been developing dark circles under my eyes - anything specific for that or is this another of those hereditary issues?

Again thanks for the advice. I wish I had some useful bits of knowledge I could offer in return. Gardening? Travel in Asia? Let me know!

K
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3A - fine, just above shoulder length, w/red color and highlights.

Product: Suave Coconut leave in, Joico Joiwhip mousse, Angell or F/X Curl booster on wet hair. Sometimes rotate in ReCoil/CK.

Routine: Scrunch with cloth diapers, then use Shellynot's clipping method. Diffuse a bit without touching hair. Leave clips in at least half and hour. Remove clips and air dry.

Day 2: Pineapple, no product.

DT once a week with DevaCare OneC





ALSO:
"I got a crush on Obama."
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:20 AM   #99
 
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Quote:
Two more questions
-would cetaphil still be appropriate as an eye makeup remover (I use waterproof mascara)
-one thing I didn't mention is that I have been developing dark circles under my eyes - anything specific for that or is this another of those hereditary issues?

I wouldn't use Cetaphil anywhere above the neck. The skin around the eyes are susceptible to skin barrier breakdown as well. My eyes are aging fast enough on their own...I don't want to hurry the process.

The cleansers I recommended work pretty well on eye makeup removal for me. When I wear waterproof mascara, I'll usually remove it with a bit of olive oil first, wipe off, then follow with my usual cleanser.

I don't have dark circles and don't use anything specifically made for eyes, so I don't have first-hand knowledge, but I've heard that some people really like the Phyto-Lift Cranberry Eyegel that PSF makes for eyes.
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:44 AM   #100
 
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Yet another cleanser question-how does this one look?

"Utilizing a unique blend of green papaya and pineapple enzymes with proprietary green papaya, honey & aloe vera, painstakingly selected from natural sources. The buckwheat honey used, for example, was tested to be 20 times the antioxidant activity as the common lighter color varieties. Under laboratory disciplines, enzyme mixes, concentration, pH levels & formulation conditions are tightly controlled to maximize enzymatic activity.

Exfoliating-enzyme-cleanser ingredients: aloe vera, honey, green papaya concentrate, papain, bromelain, coca betaine, methyl gluceth, xanthan gum, germaben II, vitamin c & e, citric acid, peg-8. "

I usually use SAS Salicylic Acid Wash, which is aloe based. The only bad things in it, I think, are the parabens. I alternate with the Pinapaya cleanser, which I really like. I was thinking about trying the mask and the polish(A face & body buffing creamy lotion of fresh green papaya grains, papaya/pineapple enzymes and micro-spheres of jojoba ester) but I would love your opinions on this first.
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