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Old 06-22-2013, 10:33 AM   #21
 
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I disagree with this. If a black person uses the word n***** but yet a white person can't, where is the sense? We are once again fulfilling the heurstics that racism is built off of. It isn't just a word. It has negative connotations. Other people will hear that derogatory word and think, "If they can say it, why can't we?" It reminds me of the saying: 'Do as I say, not as I do.'
Racism isn't built on words it's built on actions. The day blacks will stop saying n**** is when we are on the same playing field as whites.
I do have to say that both actions and words build off racism. That is like someone saying: "I am not racist, I just let two n****** in my house." How is that not derogatory? But you have your opinion and I have mine. But the next time a white, black, hispanic, Asian, etc. individual calls you a n***** don't get offended because it's just a word, right?
I don't get offended it depends on which one they call me. Theirs one that is derogatory and one that is used friendly meaning other races can say it but it depends on the person they are saying to.
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Old 06-22-2013, 02:47 PM   #22
 
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Korkscrew, I can't speak for others but just speaking for myself, I don't get upset at all when I hear a non-Italian use the term "D***." The "W**" term, however, we consider the Italian version of the N-word because it means you came here illegally.
I think one of the dangers of any group using derogatory “in names” for itself is that it perpetuates and allows for the use of those terms by outsiders, including “W**” for Italians and “N*****” for Africans.

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While I do not in any way condone racism, I also think the term "racist" has been cheapened because the term gets used way too frequently and as a means of convenience when someone is losing an argument. Just as an example, if I'm white and do not like President Obama, in some circles that makes me a racist. Or black gangster rappers can use lyrics about "kill the white dude" and no reprucussions are had but if a white country or rock artist says anything even remotely derogatory about another race and it's game over. All I'm saying is that regardless of what happened in the past we need to get away from the double standards.
It's not the word "racist" that gets cheapened, rather certain people who “cheapen” themselves. Careful observation reveals there are still plenty of strong examples of race-based injustice. There will always be someone crying wolf, from an overly-sensitive Obama apologist to a violently-minded rapper to a racist tea-bagger hanging an Obama doll in effigy, to white cops that beat and kill black, Asian and Latino men in LA for no justifiable reason. What all those people are doing is cheapening themselves, not the word "racist".
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Old 06-22-2013, 02:52 PM   #23
 
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I don't get offended it depends on which one they call me. Theirs one that is derogatory and one that is used friendly meaning other races can say it but it depends on the person they are saying to.
So if someone calls you a sh**head, bad on them, but if someone you know calls you a sh**head, no problem, it's cute.
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Old 06-22-2013, 03:16 PM   #24
 
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I don't get offended it depends on which one they call me. Theirs one that is derogatory and one that is used friendly meaning other races can say it but it depends on the person they are saying to.
So if someone calls you a sh**head, bad on them, but if someone you know calls you a sh**head, no problem, it's cute.
If you're a stranger of course I'm going to get mad and if you're a friend, it just depends on your tone.
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Old 06-22-2013, 03:22 PM   #25
 
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It all depends on which one you're saying. No black person call themselves 'n***er' and if they do even their own races calls them out on it. Now if you say 'n***a' it just depends on the person you are talking to.

Also it's a word compared to the things done to blacks, just because other races cant say a word you're going to throw a fit.

I don't say the word n***a and n***er but I don't care when my race uses it. Am I disappointed at times yes but it's something that obviously won't go away

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Old 06-22-2013, 07:59 PM   #26
 
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I think one of the dangers of any group using derogatory “in names” for itself is that it perpetuates and allows for the use of those terms by outsiders, including “W**” for Italians and “N*****” for Africans.
Very true that it perpetuates the issue. I can safely say I do not refer to fellow Italians as "W***" even if they deserve it whereas "D***" is a little more endearing. I may refer to one as "my fellow D***" and we think nothing of it.


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It's not the word "racist" that gets cheapened, rather certain people who “cheapen” themselves. Careful observation reveals there are still plenty of strong examples of race-based injustice. There will always be someone crying wolf, from an overly-sensitive Obama apologist to a violently-minded rapper to a racist tea-bagger hanging an Obama doll in effigy, to white cops that beat and kill black, Asian and Latino men in LA for no justifiable reason. What all those people are doing is cheapening themselves, not the word "racist".
The reason I say the term "racist" has been cheapened is that people use it so often that it takes away the validity of it. My only point is that the term gets so often that I don't just roll over on command to believe it to be true. I have to examine the context much more closely before I draw a conclusion. However, such people do indeed cheapen themselves as individuals for using it so quickly. As for what you mention of those crying wolf, I have no respect for any that you describe. From an overly-sensitive Obama apologist to a violently-minded rapper to a racist tea-bagger hanging an Obama doll in effigy, to white cops that beat and kill black, Asian and Latino men in LA for no justifiable reason.

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Old 06-22-2013, 08:10 PM   #27
 
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I don't believe it ever went away or will ever go away. There will always be people who hold an inner hatred of someone for different reasons, race,sexual orientation, religious views(or lack of) etc. It's sad but true. Racism is not as blunt as it use to be but is often cleverly disguised. Like the simple phrase " I hate mondays" or "Everyone hates mondays" People were using the phrase with the intent to insult african americans in my area, and started calling african american people "monday". Why? Because " everyone hates mondays". Some people will think of anything.
There are also people who self-hate, and are racist against their own race. I do not believe racism will ever go away, not completely.
On a side note: i don't believe racial slurs should be used by anyone. I do not use the n word nor will I allow anyone to call me that word, not strangers, family or friends. Because when it comes down to it, you can not change the original meaning of a word. Just because it is said in everyday conversation does not erase, it's original intended purpose. I feel the same about the b word. Putting bad, or anything else in front of the word does not make it a compliment.

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Old 06-22-2013, 10:16 PM   #28
 
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It all depends on which one you're saying. ...
So as long as you call the person a "sh**", a "s***wad" or "sh**ty" instead of a "sh**head", it's cute and dignified.
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Old 06-22-2013, 11:28 PM   #29
 
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It all depends on which one you're saying. ...
So as long as you call the person a "sh**", a "s***wad" or "sh**ty" instead of a "sh**head", it's cute and dignified.
Again it depends on the tone and where does a curse word compare to a racial slur. They are not in the same category.
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Old 06-22-2013, 11:35 PM   #30
 
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I don't believe it ever went away or will ever go away. There will always be people who hold an inner hatred if someone for different reasons, race,sexual orientation, religious views(or lack of) etc. It's sad but true. Racism is not as blunt as it use to be but is often cleverly disguised. Like the simple phrase " I hate mondays" or "Everyone hates mondays" People where using the phrase with the intent to insult african americans in my area, and started calling african american people "monday". Why? Because " everyone hates mondays". Some people will think of anything.
There are also people who self-hate, and are racist against their own race. I do not believe racism will ever go away, not completely.
On a side note: i don't believe racial slurs should be used by anyone. I do not use the n word nor will I allow anyone to call me that word, not strangers, family or friends. Because when it comes down to it, you can not change the original meaning of a word. Just because it is said in everyday conversation does not erase, it's original intended purpose. I feel the same about the b word. Putting bad, or anything else in front of the word does not make it a compliment.
Your take on racism is probably the truest and most consistent across the board. A timid bigot is no more or less bigoted than an outspoken bigot.
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Old 06-22-2013, 11:56 PM   #31
 
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I have never understood why changing the "er" to an "a" make it on to say. My three daughters are biracial and I taught to not use the n word with the "a" at the end because to me it is just a version of the "er" one. I personally don't see the need for either of them to be used by my girls. And racism has never disappeared in the south. It is still very prevalent.
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Old 06-23-2013, 05:15 AM   #32
 
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This is a sad issue, but one I don't think it ever has nor will ever go away. I believe that this n- words history is deep rooted with the black community due to its use during slavery and its aftermath. After hundreds of years, black people are still involved in an identity crisis where many of us believe what others have labeled us as. If someone calls you something long enough, you would believe it too and your self worth would be somewhat distorted. I don't think that black people mean to be so judgemental when using the double standard as to who can use it and who may not, but if you have been beaten, sprayed, and/or spit on by those who called you this word to your face in hate, then maybe you would feel differently about it. I have a coworker that calls herself and her family rednecks and hillbillies on a regular basis. But I wouldn't be stupid or ignorant enough to insult her or hers by calling her that when she irritates me. Whether people want to acknowledge this or not, there is a difference. At the sale time, I don't use the word, especially in the presence of whites or other races because if they were to call me that, I would be angry. And that has happened. I was working (customer service supervisor) and a customer was harrassing one of my clerks because she wouldn't give him what he wanted (she was white so was he). I supported her and reinforced what she told him and he said f*** you, you n***** b**** in front of a lobby full of white people. No one said anything. No one came to my defense. Everyone acted like they didn't hear it, including my clerk. That's not their fault, but no one can ever tell me that racism doesn't exist or that its just in our minds because I have a many personal experiences that support that it does.
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:08 AM   #33
 
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I have never understood why changing the "er" to an "a" make it on to say. My three daughters are biracial and I taught to not use the n word with the "a" at the end because to me it is just a version of the "er" one. I personally don't see the need for either of them to be used by my girls. And racism has never disappeared in the south. It is still very prevalent.
The south I realized has never changed since the 1800's. Everything that had to deal with black equality the Supreme Court had to force the south to change their laws. The south over the years has just put on a fake face seeming as if they aren't racist and right now they are starting to crack.

I think racism has increased a lot from 2000-2007.
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:35 AM   #34
 
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I have never understood why changing the "er" to an "a" make it on to say. My three daughters are biracial and I taught to not use the n word with the "a" at the end because to me it is just a version of the "er" one. I personally don't see the need for either of them to be used by my girls. And racism has never disappeared in the south. It is still very prevalent.
For me personally there is no difference; it is the same word. I agree
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Old 06-23-2013, 01:18 PM   #35
 
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It all depends on which one you're saying. ...
So as long as you call the person a "sh**", a "s***wad" or "sh**ty" instead of a "sh**head", it's cute and dignified.
Again it depends on the tone and where does a curse word compare to a racial slur. They are not in the same category.
Actually, they are analogous, w/ specific racial slurs being arguably worse than generalized swearing. If you have a great example of how "tone" creates an exception, please present it, because no reasonable examples have been presented so far.

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[...] I believe that this n- words history is deep rooted with the black community due to its use during slavery and its aftermath. After hundreds of years, black people are still involved in an identity crisis where many of us believe what others have labeled us as. If someone calls you something long enough, you would believe it too and your self worth would be somewhat distorted.
This rings true. When some people honor a self-abusive racial slur by * trying * to turn it into a pet name, it starts to look like a form of Stockholm Syndrome. I've also seen what you're talking about when certain people - usually from the older generations - insist on assessing someone else's identity by using the illogical "One Drop Rule" that was created from white separatist ideology.

One of the worst examples I've seen, based on what you so accurately call an identity crisis (and believing what others say): My mom and many of her West Indian and AA peers, used either a belt, an extension cord, or something resembling - frankly - a white master's whip, for discipline. They called it "the switch". Some of you may be too young - thank God - to know anything about this.

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Old 06-23-2013, 04:18 PM   #36
 
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So as long as you call the person a "sh**", a "s***wad" or "sh**ty" instead of a "sh**head", it's cute and dignified.
Again it depends on the tone and where does a curse word compare to a racial slur. They are not in the same category.
Actually, they are analogous, w/ specific racial slurs being arguably worse than generalized swearing. If you have a great example of how "tone" creates an exception, please present it, because no reasonable examples have been presented so far.

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[...] I believe that this n- words history is deep rooted with the black community due to its use during slavery and its aftermath. After hundreds of years, black people are still involved in an identity crisis where many of us believe what others have labeled us as. If someone calls you something long enough, you would believe it too and your self worth would be somewhat distorted.
This rings true. When some people honor a self-abusive racial slur by * trying * to turn it into a pet name, it starts to look like a form of Stockholm Syndrome. I've also seen what you're talking about when certain people - usually from the older generations - insist on assessing someone else's identity by using the illogical "One Drop Rule" that was created from white separatist ideology.

One of the worst examples I've seen, based on what you so accurately call an identity crisis (and believing what others say): My mom and many of her West Indian and AA peers, used either a belt, an extension cord, or something resembling - frankly - a white master's whip, for discipline. They called it "the switch". Some of you may be too young - thank God - to know anything about this.
If the person and I are having an argument and they say "You're a *****!" I get angry. If the person and I are joking around and I say "You're such dumb***." We won't get mad at each other because obviously we are joking and it's not causing harm. It all depends on the tone of ones voice. It's

If someone is so sensitive that they can't deal with curse words then I know what and what not to say around them.
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Old 06-23-2013, 05:03 PM   #37
 
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I have always wondered about this and maybe you guys can answer "why is this okay?" At my job there is "the Coalition of Black Fire Fighters", in our town there is the "Black Rodeo", The "Black Chamber of Commerce", and of course "Miss Black America". How is this okay? If we organized a "Coalition of White Fire Fighters" and told black fire fighters they were not welcome at our meetings that are held in tax funded firestations there would be public outcry. If we had a beauty contest and specially told black women they were not allowed in "our" beauty contest, there would be public outcry. So, why is it okay for blacks to exclude whites, but not okay for whites to exclude blacks? Doesn't this just perpetuate a division of the races?
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:36 PM   #38
 
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I have always wondered about this and maybe you guys can answer "why is this okay?" At my job there is "the Coalition of Black Fire Fighters", in our town there is the "Black Rodeo", The "Black Chamber of Commerce", and of course "Miss Black America". How is this okay? If we organized a "Coalition of White Fire Fighters" and told black fire fighters they were not welcome at our meetings that are held in tax funded firestations there would be public outcry. If we had a beauty contest and specially told black women they were not allowed in "our" beauty contest, there would be public outcry. So, why is it okay for blacks to exclude whites, but not okay for whites to exclude blacks? Doesn't this just perpetuate a division of the races?
I could not agree with you more. It definitely reeks of double message. In one voice, we are preaching to "come together" but yet this "practices" seperation and segregation. And you're right, if white people did the same thing it would be "game over." It's kind of like when white conservatives criticize Barack Obama, they are considered racists. Yet the same white conservatives also would have voted for Condoleeza Rice if she ran. Last time I checked, she is AA AND female. Where does the racist part come in?
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:53 PM   #39
 
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If the person and I are having an argument and they say "You're a *****!" I get angry. If the person and I are joking around and I say "You're such dumb***." [...]
About using a generic slave name to hurt a fellow black person: First - and I fail to understand how some don't realize this - you aren't just putting down that person ... and you're not just mimicking, honoring and copying the actions of white slave owners ... You are also putting yourself down at the same time, as someone else who is black. I wish I could find a way to make this sound less judgmental but this is just one of those issues that pushes a major button for me. I do respect that many people - including you - do not hold this strong opinion. And I'll be the first to admit I'm no saint when it comes to words. The word "mulatto", for example, is one I have deep ambivalence about and have labeled myself with, at times ... People from my generation and older often still use the word. And for me, it's been hard to break the "mulatto" habit - being raised on it. I feel the same thing could be happening w/some people who use n***er a lot.


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We won't get mad at each other because obviously we are joking and it's not causing harm. It all depends on the tone of ones voice.
According to your personal rules about "tone", technically anyone, from whatever background, in any situation, can "playfully" call a black person by his or her generic "slave name" (n***er), as long as that person is using a "playful" tone. But one of the weaknesses with this argument is that tone is completely subjective. It isn't always obvious that someone is joking. It isn't always obvious that someone is being malicious. And then it brings back the question of what it means to "joke" about using a self-abusive term.
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Old 06-23-2013, 07:30 PM   #40
 
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So, why is it okay for blacks to exclude whites, but not okay for whites to exclude blacks? Doesn't this just perpetuate a division of the races?
If we're all being perfectly honest, clearly there isn't a lot of vocal and public / legal protesting of black events and organizations by whites, right? I really do believe that if enough whites truly felt disturbed by social segregation from blacks, they'd have (literally) made it into a federal case by now. Or at least there's be scads of lawsuits ... daily protests ... something. But alas, crickets.

I'm not saying all whites are segregationists. No way. And there are of course blacks who are segregationists. But I think that too many whites still feel secretly or openly comfortable being socially segregated from blacks and other minorities. And so they don't seriously raise the question you just did. And maybe those uncomfortable whites are the folks you should be questioning about this issue. ... Who knows, maybe that's what you just did

That said, I wish people would just mingle more, you know, whatever their backgrounds. I think there might be a little more understanding and respect for people outside our own little insular social circles.
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