Why people vote Republican

Didn't really read the whole thread, but to kind of answer the OP question, we have to take into account that back in the day, the republicans had a pretty solid platform and a great number of americans were in fact republicans, it wasn't till the Reagan era that a shift happened. The reagonomics that favored the rich and slighted the poor is what really started dividing americans as a whole. So much so that a majority of independents are swingers who were once republicans and who abandoned the party because of the shift they didn't agree with, however these same people were also very reluctant to side with democrats, so they stayed in the middle and swung votes. There r however some people who have equated politics with conservatism and moral system. They remain republicans because they have wrongly defined what it meant to be republican. It's no longer a political clutch to them its part of their value system, its a way of life, they can't separate politics from faith, so they blindly vote a certain way because that's how they were raised. Now that the party has gone up in flames, they still can't seem to wake up and walk away because like i said it's their way of life.
Originally Posted by Yanoi
You make it sound like you think they are stupid... I'm hoping that's not what you think and I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, but just wanted to let you know that's how you are coming across. (at least to me maybe it's just me)

But anyway you said that "they can't separate politics from faith" and this one I think you are right for at least some, me included. Here's why... my faith is part of me. It effect EVERYthing about me. I see the world differently because of that. Now I'm not saying that I want to force anyone else to believe the way I do, I don't, not at all. Forcing it would be wrong and my faith says that (see that's a way it effects me).

But here's how it effects how I vote. Abortion: I see life as a gift, not a burden and I see the unborn child as someone who needs protection, just like any other group of people who can't protect themselves. My faith is what makes me see it this way. So I think that child needs to be protected and that it's life has as much value as any other innocent person. Does this mean that it's the only issue I think about when casting my vote, absolutely not! And I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone on either side of the abortion debate that makes it the only issue.

Another example... Marriage... I see marriage as sacred. Now I'm not opposed to civil unions. Also I don't think it's for the Federal Government to decide. I think this is a state's right's issue.

Also I know of a lot pf people that were poor and while they may not be rich (remember money won't make you happy, and I can totally say that cuz I've had NONE before) they have done for themselves, used what help they actually needed and improved their lives. My husband is one example. He didn't do as well as he could have in HS and his parents couldn't afford to send him to college without him getting a bunch of loans. He was good with computers and knew that he could make a descent living with them if he could get trained. So he joined the Navy. He put in his 4 years and came out knowing a lot about computers because he worked hard at it. He saw countless guys that just did what they had to, didn't volunteer to help when there was a problem with a system. He's also seen guys that have come out and could have had the same knowledge that he did and they also didn't apply themselves and so they weren't able to do the job.

He's applied himself over and over to learn new things with computers and is always reading about what's the newest thing. And he's one of the best network guys a company could ever higher. He's gotten several certs and these are not easy to get, he's study hard for them.

Also when the dot com bubble burst he lost his job. He was out of work for several months and we had to sell our house as we couldn't afford it on what we then had coming in. We moved in with my mom for a few months, that didn't work out well, at all. So we bought (with all that we had from our house) a single wide trailer in a trailer park. We paid cash for it and it was not in good condition at all. It didn't even have central heat, we used a Karo heater, which meant that one of use had to get up in the middle of the night to refill it. It meant that the house was cold when we got home. We could have gotten government help I'm sure, but we didn't, why? We were making it on our own. We ate a lot of beans and rice meals. I got our grocery bill lower than anyone else I knew in our area. We also decided that we would no longer buy a car unless we could pay cash. Is that easy? No way, we've had to go down to one vehicle many times (in fact the only reason we aren't now is that his parents are moving up here soon and have left their truck here to making moving easier for them). With our tax return we will buy a car for him. One we can afford to pay cash for. Like I said this isn't easy. And we have sacrificed over and over. I've seen my friends not doing that, buying a new car every few years and buying a house that's at the top of their budget. And with all the HUGE houses that are all over America I think that this is happening more and more, and it's this idea that I have to buy the biggest house I can afford that's caused a lot of the problems that we have in this country.

Have we had help? Yes, other than his training in the Navy (which I think everyone would say he completely paid for by serving) it hasn't been from the government. We have been lucky that we could get help from family when needed. Now that hasn't been very often. For example when he was in the Navy I worked at Papa John as Asst. Man. we only had one car, a beat up old truck, it was an 88 dodge. When something broke on it we fixed it. Sometimes we needed help paying for the part, but we (yes I mean we, I did as much work on that truck as he did) fixed it. The same with our houses, when something breaks, we fix it. We do pay to get car repairs done now but that's because we can afford to. If something happened and we couldn't anymore then we could fix it ourselves.

Now I know we were lucky to be able to have family to help and not everyone has that. And I think that's where charities need to help, not the government. Let me ask you guys this, welfare as we know it was started in the 60's. So it's had 40 years for us to see if it's helped... has it? And I'm really asking here. Some have said that the poor stay poor. Why? Ben Franklin said "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." Sounds kinda harsh huh? Well I'm telling that my life when my husband was putting his time in and when and after he lost his job and had to take one for less than half of what he was making before was harsh.

Life is hard. And trying to make it not hard is just setting someone up to fail. And that's why I'm against the government running all the programs that they do. The government doesn't help the poor not be poor, it helps them stay that way.

And I have also seen it abused, over and over. I have seen people on welfare with cell phones and designer jeans and hundred sneakers. I'm sorry but if you are on welfare you shouldn't be buying any of those and if someone else is buying them for you, maybe that person should help you to get off of welfare.

We've gone without so that we could have a future and I don't think it's too much to think that others should do the same.
I truly think the saddest legacy of the Reagan years is he created the myth of the welfare queen. You don't know how people got those things you don't want them to have. The crazy thing is, people don't seem to have as much problem with corporate welfare. How many times have we bailed out the airline industry and they still suck?

It is very hard to break the cycle of poverty. The problem is, if you have money, you can be pretty mediocre and be ok. If you are poor, you have to be super human. Even still, look at what people were willing to accept and praise in Bush but what accomplishments they poo-pood in Obama as unimportant. Obama never would have been elected with Bush's resume.

I also think it is sad that I have to vote for one party because I want to protect my rights and the rights of others. I can't believe in 2009, people still trying to take away a woman's right to control her body and stop people who are in love from enjoying the benefits of marriage. I love when they call marriage sacred. You need to talk to those straight people who marry and divorce over and over. Sacred my foot.
A coward is incapable of exhibiting love; it is the prerogative of the brave.

-Mohandas Gandhi
Im black and grew up middle class. My father was a civil right lawyer in the 70s then a small town country lawyer. My mother was a telephone operator. Their parents were share croppers. Im a clinician and all my brothers and sisters graduated from college and graduate school. I work in a clinic with poor persons daily. I didnt understand why 24 year old girls with 1 child are stuck on the system. I thought surely they have something extra they are facing that I dont.

They dont. Most of these girls are lazy and dont try. They are young, have a GED, 1 baby that the day care raises, and goverment housing, and a ticket to college. They wont go.

Republicans are right about one thing. Aid must stop. The more we give aide the worst the situation gets. The recepients have no reason to try if we enable them so much.
For people who want aid to stop, what are we supposed to DO? Let poor people and their children starve to death and live on the streets? Some people become poor for a variety of reasons. Plus, where are the jobs for them?

Reagan also shifted our economy away from one sustained through manufacturing jobs so we have few blue collar jobs that pay decently. You can't support yourself on minimum wage. If you have kids, child care is insanely expensive (do you know how much you get charged per minute if you are late???) and if you aren't earning much it can eat up all of your salary.

Yes, we do have to help people become self-sufficient (that is the mission of the non-profit I work for) BUT you also have to sustain them while they are learning AND have an actual job for them when they are ready.

BTW, I know a lot of lazy people who were born into money. But that is A-ok!
A coward is incapable of exhibiting love; it is the prerogative of the brave.

-Mohandas Gandhi
BB you keep shoving words in people's mouths. Stop it!

Did you ACTUALLY read what I wrote? Did you read why my husband and I have been trough? Did you read what I said about them getting those things? When we were living in the 900 square foot single wide trailer with 2 kids if someone had offered me $100 shoes I would have asked for help with groceries instead of the shoes.

Anyone who accepts those things and takes government help has their priorities messed up.

And BB I have SEEN it abused. It's a FACT, not an opinion. I've seen crack dealers on welfare. I lived near them. It was one of the only places we could afford at the time. The dealer was driving a corvette... now you explain to me how that's not abusing the system.

And I never said I was ok with ANY bail outs. I'm NOT! I was against all of them. It goes against what I know works. If a company can't keep above water then they need to go away. That's the way it works.

And you asked what are we supposed to do? We HELP them, you and I, not Uncle Sam. That's what we do. We give our time and money to the charity that we want to help, that we are drawn to. I know you work at one, and that great, but it's not the same as volunteering. And I'm not saying you don't, I no clue if you do or not. But that's what we do.

Adia said it perfectly, they can go to college, with a free ride and have their childcare paid for. I had friends that did it. That would be in the system now if they had not, but they got themselves out. There should a limit on how long you can be in the system. We aren't helping them by letting them stay where they are.

And tell my how are $100 shoes and cell phones and cable TV and new cars a necessity? And if they have people to give those to them shouldn't those people be helping them, like we had family help us instead of the government? And the welfare queen is not a myth, I've SEEN it.

Also the baby a woman carries is NOT her body, if it was it would have her DNA, it doesn't. That baby has his or her own genetic code, so you aren't protecting your body.

Agree that the rate of divorce is insane. And I do think that people need to take marriage more seriously. But just because someone else doesn't take it seriously doesn't mean I don't. To ME (this is my opinion) marriage is sacred. And how is saying the I'm fine with civil unions taking away any rights? Civil unions would hold the same LEGAL rights as marriage. So if it's rights you were really after that should be fine because they would have them.

And stop assuming what I believe, you don't know me or what I believe, if you want to know, ask. I've done that for you.
^^^
I wasn't talking to you directly (which is why I didn't quote you). It is truly great you were able to lift yourself out of poverty but not everyone has your fortitude. I just can't watch people starve and die b/c they are lazy.

It is strange but a lot of people accept poverty in other countries - and wouldn't call the people there lazy - but not here.

College is no longer the solution to everything. The unemployment rate for recent grads is through the roof. A lot of kids are lucky in that their parents can support them but not everyone has that luxury. Shoot, we placed an ad for an entry level job that paid $30,000 and we had over 200 applicants, some with years of experience. How can people compete with that?

As for individuals helping those in need, that is (or should I say was) what Reagan preached but it didn't work. Not everyone cares enough to help others - we lack a sense of community and concern for others. There are plenty of people who have zero sympathy for the plight of others and won't help them. This is why we need government programs. Believe me, I hear this every day.

Yes, people do abuse the programs. But people also abuse marriage - people get married for green cards, for heaven's sake. Should we get rid of that? Being poor doesn't make you virtous and they are scum at every income level. But you don't toss everything out because of it.
A coward is incapable of exhibiting love; it is the prerogative of the brave.

-Mohandas Gandhi

Last edited by BB; 11-01-2009 at 09:32 AM.
I never said everyone that is poor is lazy. I'm saying I don't want the poor to stay poor. I want to help them to NOT be poor anyone. I want them to learn to get out of that. And welfare has not been doing that. Before e had welfare, when we as a country believed in values people did help each other. But having the welfare state has pushed us farther from that.

So let me ask you this. If you say that you don't want to see someone stave because they are lazy, are you ok with them staying that way? Do you not want them to better themselves?

I didn't say to do away with helping, I'm saying what we are doing now isn't working. It's not helping them.
Another poster called them lazy and I've heard people say that.

ANYWAY ... of course I don't advocate laziness but as I said there are plenty of lazy rich kids who live off daddy's money. They were just lucky to be born into the right family - it wasn't something they did to deserve it. I think it is immoral to let people starve to death. We also need to create jobs for people who do want to get out of poverty. Jobs that pay more than $6 an hour.

I don't like a lot of things my taxes pay for but I don't get to pick. I'd rather it go to put food on someone's table then to war or to bail out some failing company.
A coward is incapable of exhibiting love; it is the prerogative of the brave.

-Mohandas Gandhi
Again I'm NOT saying to not help them. I'm saying what we are doing now isn't helping. Do you think that it's helping them not be poor anymore?

And you keep talking about lazy rich people... I don't really understand what that has to do with helping the poor. How is making an excuse for lazy behavior helping them?

I'd also like to know if someone has a cell phone (and not the cheap pay as you go ones), $100 shoes or nice new car, etc why should they be on welfare?

I'm saying what we are doing now do not work and it needs to change.

And look I've lived on Min. wage... it IS possible. I've lived BELOW poverty level, more than $1,000 below... it wasn't easy.

And you also said
Being poor doesn't make you virtous and they are scum at every income level. But you don't toss everything out because of it.
I never said that, I never even implied that. I have said it over and over, please read what I am saying here. Welfare is NOT helping them not be poor anymore. I want to help them not be poor. I know that we can NEVER eliminate poverty. It happens mostly because of choices we make. My husband and I were because we didn't work as hard as we could have in HS and couldn't go to college. Sometimes it's a situation that you don't bring on yourself, but that's much more rare. BUT I still want to help those that make poor decisions, but what we have not isn't doing that.

Do you know when we in this country had the biggest growth in the middle class? After WWII because of the GI Bill. So the guys coming back we able to work at bettering themselves. And it wasn't just college, the GI bill did then and still will pay you if you are in an approve apprenticeship. But they had to work for it. First they served this country, then they had to work at their education. The GI Bill will now help pay for certifications. That's just one way they can help themselves get out of poverty.

And you had that many applicants because of the economy. Now when the economy is bad is the best time to go to school, to get some sort of education. To better yourself. That's what I want them to do, to do something to not be poor anymore. I want them to get help doing that. How is welfare doing that?

Also you said
I wasn't talking to you directly (which is why I didn't quote you)
But you were talking about what I had just said... you don't have to quote me to be talking about my comments.

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