Columbus Day

I just enjoyed not having to slog through traffic. Does that make me shallow?
Originally Posted by Suburbanbushbabe
Nah, we all wish that!

Yagotta, I am dead serious. I'm just confused by what you said.
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Yagotta, I am dead serious. I'm just confused by what you said.
Originally Posted by NYCurlyGirly
I'm confused over you being confused.... What exactly do you know about Native Americans? That they live in the woods and trees and hunt and gather? Come on now.... are YOU serious?

Not all tribes are the same of course, but there is a common thread. I'm talking about their way of life, their respect and love and reverence for this earth and for each other. For their spirituality. Soooo many beautiful things, so many beautiful ways they could have taught those that came over. But their way of life was violently trampled over. What could have been a truly beautiful society....became the USA.

The settlers saw "savage" and felt fear at what was different from theirselves. Fear leads to hate. History repeats itself. over and over and over and over. When the hell are we going to learn?

Yeah, I wish columbus never landed and I wish the settlers never INVADED. What if that meant me not being born? so be it. I'm sure my soul would have managed to get here somehow.
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Columbus set the stage. When making the natives failed, they went for Africans. Fast forward a few hundred years: there's like 7 Natives left and the blacks are still catching hell.

To say "that how it goes" does a great injustice to the souls that where murdered enslaved and raped out of greed, racism, and fear. All most of us are saying is to accept the ENTIRE history.
Originally Posted by Trenell
I do. I never said I was all "woo freakin' hoo, it's Columbus day! He's great and wonderful! We should build a statue for him!" I don't think that at all. I think it's a frickin' stupid holiday, actually, and just an excuse for people to have a day off (not me! but lots of people). Regardless, I don't think it's fair to hate the day or the man.

That IS how it goes, and all countries have horrible aspects of their history as well. He may have set the stage, but he did not personally kill all Native Americans. I don't see any need to celebrate him though, so I'm pretty neutral on this subject I suppose. I am still glad to be here.
Besides, Columbus wasn't even the first European to travel to North America.

Just the first one to bring slaves back.

Besides, Columbus wasn't even the first European to travel to North America.

Just the first one to bring slaves back.
Originally Posted by oreosmakemehappy
Happy Lief Erikkson Day! (sp)


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They were savages who refused to accept the word of God.
They were savages who refused to accept the word of God.
Originally Posted by CurlyDad
Yes because the Europeans weren't savages either, they were all saints!
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No they were on a mission from God.
They were savages who refused to accept the word of God.
By that logic, if a group of people came to your land where you had been living with your community peacefully, and you refused to accept their concept or beliefs in a god or something similar, it would be justified for them to then fight you and take over your land.

Alrighty, then.
No they were on a mission from God.
Originally Posted by CurlyDad
Yes just keep using that excuse to justify their atrocious actions and their greed.

Religion always seems to be the scapegoat, what a surprise!
Turtles: omg please don't put that in your moo moo

Nej: too late... moo moo has been infiltrated.
People are actually believing this re-write of history that Columbus was nothing more than a murderer? For crying out loud, no matter how liberal you are you'd think a holiday celebrating the man who made America possible wouldn't cause so much controversy.
Originally Posted by NYCurlyGirly
You'd not think it would, but I can remember this BS about it starting shortly after I was out of college. Apparently it is fine in every other nation in the world to celebrate whatever they want, but God forbid that we celebrate Columbus Day.

It's really easy to sit back in judgment on a person and events 500+ years in the past. Look what they are doing to Jefferson and Washington and that was not 300 yrs ago.

But some people have to complain about everything and take offense at everything...we have to ALL be politically correct at all times...even our history. OTOH, that's something great about our nation. We can be as petty and nitpicky as we want ;D
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Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. Mark Twain.



They were savages who refused to accept the word of God.
By that logic, if a group of people came to your land where you had been living with your community peacefully, and you refused to accept their concept or beliefs in a god or something similar, it would be justified for them to then fight you and take over your land.

Alrighty, then.
Originally Posted by StephS
All the Native Americans ALWAYS lived in peace and harmony with each other and the land. What ARE you smokin'?
My son wears combat boots (and a parachute).
The older I get, the less patience I have with cleverness. Thomas Sowell.
Resolve to perform what you ought. Perform without fail what you resolve. Benjamin Franklin.
Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. Mark Twain.



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Clearly the European explorers were intellectually, militarily, medically, and culturally superior.

Did you ever ask yourself why Euro's traveled to the new world and not vice-versa? It wasn't because the North American natives chose not to go.
Did you ever ask yourself why Euro's traveled to the new world and not vice-versa?
Why does that even matter?
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Did you ever ask yourself why Euro's traveled to the new world and not vice-versa?
Why does that even matter?
Originally Posted by StephS
It demonstrates the superiority of Western Civilization.
Clearly the European explorers were intellectually, militarily, medically, and culturally superior.

Did you ever ask yourself why Euro's traveled to the new world and not vice-versa? It wasn't because the North American natives chose not to go.
Originally Posted by CurlyDad
Actually they weren't "superior" as you say.

The Europeans weren't traveling to the new world they were traveling to India looking for gold and encountered the islands, thought it was India.
Turtles: omg please don't put that in your moo moo

Nej: too late... moo moo has been infiltrated.
All the Native Americans ALWAYS lived in peace and harmony with each other and the land. What ARE you smokin'?
Whether the different groups of natives got along has no bearing on CurlyDad's insistence that Native Americans deserved to have land basically stolen from them because they would not accept the "word of god."

Do you think that is a good reason for taking over land that others were living on first?

What I smoke also has no bearing on this concept.
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Either way, they were masters of navigation and engineering while the natives hadn't even invented the wheel.
Either way, they were masters of navigation and engineering while the natives hadn't even invented the wheel.
Originally Posted by CurlyDad
Hmm really?

Where did we get the canoes from? oh yes thats right the Tainos!!!

Where did we get the idea of impeaching a ruler? hmm the Iroquois!

Who had the best agricultural system in the world (especially best in terms of yield)? The Tainos once again!

The Tainos also gave us the words hurrican (Hu=god racan=wind), tobacco, & rubber , they gave us hammocks, the idea of a bbq

The only reason Columbus reached the new world was due to his miscalculation on how to get to China & India

You say they were on a mission from "God" but didn't "God" say you can't commit murder, or steal, or desire your neighbors house or anything that belongs to them?!!
Turtles: omg please don't put that in your moo moo

Nej: too late... moo moo has been infiltrated.

Last edited by SarcasmIsBeauty; 10-16-2008 at 11:23 PM.
They were savages who refused to accept the word of God.
By that logic, if a group of people came to your land where you had been living with your community peacefully, and you refused to accept their concept or beliefs in a god or something similar, it would be justified for them to then fight you and take over your land.

Alrighty, then.
Originally Posted by StephS
All the Native Americans ALWAYS lived in peace and harmony with each other and the land. What ARE you smokin'?
Originally Posted by susancnw
As one of my professors once said "All styles in ALL CULTURES at ALL TIMES are NEVER PEACEFUL ALL THE TIME"
Turtles: omg please don't put that in your moo moo

Nej: too late... moo moo has been infiltrated.

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