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Curly Gurus
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10-21-2008, 08:45 PM
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#1
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,446
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Ayers, I'm so confused
This whole thing with Ayers confuses me. I understand that people are upset about what he did in the past, but they also like to bring up the fact that he's has "no regrets". From information I've seen, this appears to stem from a comment that was taken out of context.
This is my understanding of things... He was a member/cofounder of a 60's anti-war activist group that was responsible for terrorist acts. He eventually got out and is now a professor. During a 2001 interview, he stated that he had no regrets for standing up for what he believed in. in regards to that interview, he is quoted as saying:
"This is not a question of being misunderstood or 'taken out of context', but of deliberate distortion."
I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with what he did, but I'm just hoping for some clarification. Can someone please explain/correct me
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10-21-2008, 08:49 PM
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#2
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 31,430
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The McCain supporters (including right-wing commentators like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh) like to distort Ayers' comment that he "didn't do enough" to stop the war into "didn't bomb enough".
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10-21-2008, 08:52 PM
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#3
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,803
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I think they stood in the same room together. Served on a board together. Big effing deal.
Ack, your question. Yep, Hannity would likely distort something like that. They are GRASPING AT STRAWS with this ayers thing, but their sheep are eating it up.
Last edited by CurlyGina2; 10-21-2008 at 08:57 PM.
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10-21-2008, 10:00 PM
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#5
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 344
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10-22-2008, 12:24 AM
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#6
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Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 5,613
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From fact check (which can seem ironic after watching the video below):
Obama speaking to George Stephanopoulos (dang, his last name is hard to spell) during the Democratic primary:
This is an interesting video: Glenn Beck referecing an Anderson Cooper 360 story on an Ayers-Obama connection
If Ayer's sought Obama to be chair, I'm pretty sure these men had a lot of conversations. After experiencing working for a lawmaker on different committees and the chair of one, I don't think you could get by without a good amount of personal contact. Don't see how things could work otherwise. The actual contact doesn't fundamentally bother me because I don't think that makes Obama share Ayer's overall vision.
Addressing it the way he did might be deceptive -I think it arguably downplays the contact he had with him, but of course it should be expected that he'll downplay it. The vast majority of politicians would. I'll admit I haven't spent as much time entertaining McCain's ties, but I'm not voting for him either, and it certainly wouldn't surprise me if he addressed them in the same manner.
__________________
“It was only a sunny smile and little it cost in the giving but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living.” - F. Scott Fitzgerald
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10-22-2008, 12:34 AM
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#7
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Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 5,613
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__________________
“It was only a sunny smile and little it cost in the giving but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living.” - F. Scott Fitzgerald
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10-22-2008, 06:53 AM
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#8
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,727
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Did Ayers ever get charged with anything? It seems odd that someone who is supposedly so corrupt and vile would be able to walk free.
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10-22-2008, 08:13 AM
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#9
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,734
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According to Wiki (so, not exactly the definitive source, but y'know) he was a fugitive for years and by the time he turned himself in, the case had been dismissed due to prosecutorial misconduct.
__________________
"And politically correct is the worst term, not just because it’s dismissive, but because it narrows down the whole social justice spectrum to this idea that it’s about being polite instead of about dismantling the oppressive social structure of power.
Fun Fact: When you actively avoid being “PC,” you’re not being forward-thinking or unique. You’re buying into systems of oppression that have existed since before you were even born, and you’re keeping those systems in place."
Stolen.
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10-22-2008, 08:29 AM
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#10
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,667
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With regard to the Ayers quote, it was published on the morning of 9/11/01, but was taken prior to that. So, it was not some sort of response to, or commentary on the attacks of 9/11, as has been insinuated.
Also from FactCheck...
" To the contrary, Ayers was not involved in the choice, according to Deborah Leff, then president of the Joyce Foundation. She told the Times, and confirmed to FactCheck.org, that she recommended Obama for the position to Patricia Graham of the Spencer Foundation. Graham told us that she asked Obama if he'd become chairman; he accepted, provided Graham would be vice-chair."
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10-22-2008, 01:07 PM
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#11
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Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 5,613
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The NYT's article mentions the prosecutorial misconduct as well. Although I'm not a fan of the NYT, I'm guessing they used solid sources.
CurlyCurlies, the NYT article/Ayer's interview relays what Ayers was involved in, and what motivated him.
__________________
“It was only a sunny smile and little it cost in the giving but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living.” - F. Scott Fitzgerald
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10-22-2008, 01:18 PM
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#12
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,898
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Thanks. I knew it was blown out of proportion but this clarifies a lot for me.
__________________
That's right, I said it! I wear scrunchies!!
I am a sulfate washing, cone slabbing, curly lovin' s.o.b. The CG police haven't caught me yet.

3a/3b
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10-22-2008, 01:34 PM
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#13
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Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 5,613
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Ayer's evidently was instrumental in bringing the Annenberg project to Chicago, and Obama was recruited to be it's chair. We can at least gather that.
As an aside, the interesting thing about Fact Check is that it's part of the Annenberg foundation. Ayer's recieved a $50 million grant from them for the Annenberg Challenge. My honest impression of Fact Check is not that it's a partisan organization, but I wouldn't expect pure non-bias from them, and would expect them to have cross-cutting agendas.
An organization that loaded delivering everyone the facts and not expecting convenient interpretation somewhere would be naive. I'm not saying it's not a good resource, but considering it a gold standard of truth would be naive.
Here's a blogger sorting out (allegedly at least) the details, with respect to how the board legally operated and documents.
More
__________________
“It was only a sunny smile and little it cost in the giving but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living.” - F. Scott Fitzgerald
Last edited by westcoastcurls; 10-22-2008 at 01:49 PM.
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10-22-2008, 01:47 PM
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#14
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Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 5,613
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Actually, I think when it's really considered, it's not blown out of proportion. I think I've caught some of the connecting Ayer's words to apathy, even support of what happened on 9/11 and that sounds like a convenient lie. As CocoaCoily pointed out, the interview in the NYT was published on Sept. 11th, so compiled before the attacks.
When it comes to how Obama described his relationship with Ayer's and his likely relationship with Ayer's, I completely get the impression he downplayed it....like the vast majority of politicians in the same situation would.
It actually doesn't bother me that he has the connection to Ayer's he likely does. I'm not expecting to like the same idealogy he connects with, and it's not surprising, but to call it a fringe theory, and fringe speculation is dismissing it absent TRUE consideration. It's telling your followers and independents "oh this is cooked up fringe stuff" so that they would be embarrassed to entertain it. Granted there is a lot of cooky stuff out there, this dynamic is very Orwellian. People, no matter what side of the aisle should be sensitive whenever something is labeled to lend that impression. Maybe rightfully so, but it's important to not take the dismissal at face value.
__________________
“It was only a sunny smile and little it cost in the giving but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living.” - F. Scott Fitzgerald
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10-22-2008, 04:22 PM
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#15
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 31,430
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I just have to say, as someone who was around in the 60's during the Viet Nam war, and because I know a lot of other people old enough to remember that era...I just don't think people care about Bill Ayers. He was an anti-war 60's radical. He wasn't just bombing for the hell of it or to hurt people. He wasn't Timothy McVeigh. Ayers had an anti-war agenda, and the Viet Nam war was even more unpopular than the Iraq war. People tend to forgive a lot of 60's activities, and almost give it a romantic spin. I think Ayers' civil disobedience of the era gets a pass from most older folks. He didn't kill anyone, just damaged some gov't property.
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10-22-2008, 04:41 PM
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#16
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,898
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What did he specifically do to damage the property and how extensive was the damage?
Did he make sure no one was in the building, such as the cleaning crew?
__________________
That's right, I said it! I wear scrunchies!!
I am a sulfate washing, cone slabbing, curly lovin' s.o.b. The CG police haven't caught me yet.

3a/3b
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10-22-2008, 05:03 PM
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#17
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,734
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It's my understanding that he planted a small bomb, that caused "tens of thousands" of dollars of damage. He didn't take out a whole building or anything.
__________________
"And politically correct is the worst term, not just because it’s dismissive, but because it narrows down the whole social justice spectrum to this idea that it’s about being polite instead of about dismantling the oppressive social structure of power.
Fun Fact: When you actively avoid being “PC,” you’re not being forward-thinking or unique. You’re buying into systems of oppression that have existed since before you were even born, and you’re keeping those systems in place."
Stolen.
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10-22-2008, 05:04 PM
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#18
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,580
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I was under the impression that Ayers was part of a bombing that killed several NYC officers...is this not true?
__________________
"Yo, James, i'm really happy for you, i'm gonna let you finish killing Bella in a minute, but Demetri was one of the best Trackers of ALL time!"
www.myspace.com/mimichica
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10-22-2008, 07:05 PM
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#19
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Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 2,355
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It is not true. The NYC police thing happened after the dissoulution of the Weather Underground and several members went to other radical groups. Ayers was not involved.
From Wiki:
Certain members remained underground and joined other radical groups. Years after the dissolution of the WUO, former members Kathy Boudin, Judith Alice Clark, and David Gilbert formed the May 19 Communist Organization, which eventually joined with the Black Liberation Army. On October 20, 1981, in Nyack New York, the group robbed a Brinks armored truck containing $1.6 million. The robbery turned violent, resulting in the murders of two police officers and a security guard. [6] Boudin, Clark, and Gilbert were found guilty and sentenced to lengthy terms in prison, considered the “last gasps” of the Weather Underground. [48]
The Weatherman group itself never killed anyone (except for 3 group members in the Greenwich Village explosion in 1970), in fact they always gave public warning so people would evacuate.
More Wiki:
They wanted to convince the American public that the United States was truly responsible for the calamity in Vietnam. [2] The group began striking at night, bombing empty offices, with warnings always issued in advance to ensure a safe evacuation. According to David Gilbert, "[their] goal was to not hurt any people, and a lot of work went into that. But we wanted to pick targets that showed to the public who was responsible for what was really going on." [2] After the Greenwich Village explosion, no one was killed by WUO bombs. [27] We were very careful from the moment of the townhouse on to be sure we weren't going to hurt anybody, and we never did hurt anybody. Whenever we put a bomb in a public space, we had figured out all kinds of ways to put checks and balances on the thing and also to get people away from it, and we were remarkably successful.
—Bill Ayers[2]
So when you hear the right's protest that (paraprhasing) "Obama hangs with terrorists that killed Americans," those Americans were actually the 3 members of the WUO killed in that 1970 bombing. Funny how they twist that, huh?
As I see it, Ayers appointed Obama since that was pretty much his job on that board. The recommendations came from letters written by Adele Simmons, whom Obama DID have both friendly and business ties to. That party at Ayers' home that gets bandied about by the pundits that was supposedly thrown FOR Obama? It was actually in Adele Simmons' honor, and SHE was the one whom invited Obama.
I believe the "ties" to Ayers rest soley with the participation on the board, and nothing more. I'll even wager a bet that Obama never even made the connection (probably read a tiny bit about the never-prosecuted cases in law school, but consider the oodles he had to have studied), that Ayers was a former anti-war radical. It most likely never came up at all until Obama's bid to run and a researcher/vetter saw Ayers' name on the board Obama was also a member of. This has gotten so blown away from reality by the hard right that it has caused many (mostly people who get their political info from their church) to actually believe that if Obama were elected that he would just call up bin Laden and invite him over to kill all of the Christians, and Bill Ayers would be more than happy to help.
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10-22-2008, 07:33 PM
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#20
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,727
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Hmmm, I guess it does help to put everything into context. Still, blowing up government property is pretty serious. I wonder what kind of spin he put on that in the job interview for the university? I need those kind of bs skills  .
I don't think I've ever felt that passionate about something that I'd be willing to go to those lengths, but I wonder if I would feel differently if I were born during times of social unrest.
Last edited by CurlyCurlies; 10-22-2008 at 07:36 PM.
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