Food for thought - distribution of wealth

You forgot about the tax loopholes for the uber-rich. That last man didn't pay anywhere close to $59 for his beer, if at all. And it's questionable whether the 8th and 9th paid that much either. Only the little people pay taxes. So the guys in the middle paid most or all of the beer tab.

If people want to b1tch about our progressive income tax system, that's a totally different topic from what Obama wants to do with tax cuts. I'm in total agreement that charging progressively more as people earn more is unfair, but that's the way our tax code has been for many decades. It's time for an overhaul, but that doesn't mean it's Obama's fault.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
AMEN!
"what's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?"



"If you judge people,you have no time to love them"
-Mother Theresa
Food for thought: those of us who call ourselves "Christians" Did Christ not say if your neighbor has no coat and you have 2, give him one of yours? Did He not say it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven? Did He not say I am my brother's keeper? Did He not tell the story of the Good Samaritan? Did he not say the greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself?
Where do you think Christ stands on the issue of "Socialism"? His message has been so sadly distorted that now we have something called the "Christian Right" and their ilk. What's wrong with this picture? It's really very sad.
3A,fine texture,medium thickness,below shoulder length for the 1st time in 30 yrs! colored dark blonde to hide gray.
Food for thought: those of us who call ourselves "Christians" Did Christ not say if your neighbor has no coat and you have 2, give him one of yours? Did He not say it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven? Did He not say I am my brother's keeper? Did He not tell the story of the Good Samaritan? Did he not say the greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself?
Where do you think Christ stands on the issue of "Socialism"? His message has been so sadly distorted that now we have something called the "Christian Right" and their ilk. What's wrong with this picture? It's really very sad.
Originally Posted by maryeis

Excellent post! Thank you for pointing out that delicious irony.
I loooveeee me some Socialism it helps me pay for college!

Socialism also helps my grandma pay for her medical needs like her diabetes medicine, darn Socialism you're getting in the way. We need to get rid of Socialism once and for all, you betcha we do!
Turtles: omg please don't put that in your moo moo

Nej: too late... moo moo has been infiltrated.

Last edited by SarcasmIsBeauty; 10-31-2008 at 12:02 AM.
Food for thought: those of us who call ourselves "Christians" Did Christ not say if your neighbor has no coat and you have 2, give him one of yours? Did He not say it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven? Did He not say I am my brother's keeper? Did He not tell the story of the Good Samaritan? Did he not say the greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself?
Where do you think Christ stands on the issue of "Socialism"? His message has been so sadly distorted that now we have something called the "Christian Right" and their ilk. What's wrong with this picture? It's really very sad.
Originally Posted by maryeis
ITA! Wonderful post. So many people who call themselves Christians are not following Jesus' words. That's one of the reasons I stopped going to Church 10 years ago. I just don't understand what's so bad about helping your fellow man.

I've been very fortunate and blessed to have a good job with great benefits. I have no problem with the government using some of my money through taxes to help the less fortunate get health care, buy food for their children, etc.
I think a progressive tax system is fair. I remember what it was like to be a struggling college student making $10,000/year and only eating 5 days a week because I couldn't afford the 7-day meal plan. I have no problem with paying more taxes now that I'm settled so that other people can make it over that same hurdle.
Speckla
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Posts: n/a
I think a progressive tax system is fair. I remember what it was like to be a struggling college student making $10,000/year and only eating 5 days a week because I couldn't afford the 7-day meal plan. I have no problem with paying more taxes now that I'm settled so that other people can make it over that same hurdle.
Originally Posted by tmmy_cat
I've been the college student who worked two jobs and had to pay back loans. It's hard and I do believe people should be helped and given the ability and resources to become self-sufficient.

There are people who are physically or mentally disabled and not able to take care of themselves. Some of these people have no families or anyone to take care of them. I see these as people who should be provided for.

I posted on another thread about workers comp, Medicare, and social security being benefits that people can use but you only earn as much as you've put into them while you were working.

I have no problem giving and helping people but I believe it should be by choice and not taken by the government.

Last edited by Speckla; 10-31-2008 at 09:00 PM.
Food for thought: those of us who call ourselves "Christians" Did Christ not say if your neighbor has no coat and you have 2, give him one of yours? Did He not say it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven? Did He not say I am my brother's keeper? Did He not tell the story of the Good Samaritan? Did he not say the greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself?
Where do you think Christ stands on the issue of "Socialism"? His message has been so sadly distorted that now we have something called the "Christian Right" and their ilk. What's wrong with this picture? It's really very sad.
Originally Posted by maryeis
ITA! Wonderful post. So many people who call themselves Christians are not following Jesus' words. That's one of the reasons I stopped going to Church 10 years ago. I just don't understand what's so bad about helping your fellow man.

I've been very fortunate and blessed to have a good job with great benefits. I have no problem with the government using some of my money through taxes to help the less fortunate get health care, buy food for their children, etc.
Originally Posted by truelady
yo, thats because the church is supposed to take care of people.

not the government.

just because i dont support obama, doesnt mean i dont care what happens to people. i believe the church and charities should take care of someone else.

why can't you donate your money to a charity instead of paying more taxes?

or do you not trust charities?

well...i dont trust the government.
So socialism and handouts have ruined the black community.


That's ****ing stupid and offensive.

Most likely when you grew up, Jim Crow was alive and well. Well, I guess Socialism came along, and all of those sad but proud, helpful Negroes started getting uppity and lazing about and snatching handouts.

I agree with CurleeDST. You have got to be joking. It's ridiculous the fairy tales people come up with to gloss over the hard, cold truth.

"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer."

4a, mbl, low porosity, normal thickness, fine hair.

Last edited by curlyarca; 11-01-2008 at 08:04 PM.
has nothing to do with "sharing the wealth", it would be owning the wealth- the gov't would own ALL means of production and private ownership would be prohibited. Obama is FAR from socialist.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/826/
2b/2c Henndigo curls
Currently using: Deva low-poo and OC, KCKT/KCCC, JCCC, & BRHG. + Curlease towel
Also have had success with: CK, FSG, KBB, AOHR, Nature's Gate Conditioner.

pw: curlygirl

Why does it seem that the people who make it a point to say that they nor their views are racists, tend to bring up race in threads - like say this one - that have nothing to do with race?
Originally Posted by Myradella3
Either I am not reading the responses close enough or I missed where this thread became racist. I am caucasian and never once pointed the finger at any race. Maybe I was pointing a finger at lazy people regardless of color. All I am trying to point out, and I do firmly feel this way, is that I am very grateful for those people who take the risks, start businesses, and provide jobs for people like you and me. I am not talking about the CEO who is ripping off everyone; simply the hard working person who is risking losing everything to get ahead and at the same time providing something for you and me. I don't have the initiative or intelligence to be one of them, but I am ever so grateful that they are out there. I just don't want to see them all get disgusted and as "my simplified example" said, go overseas.
Originally Posted by munchkin
My comments were not to suggest the thread is racist. Susan - as she tends to always do - brought up race in a thread that nothing to do with race. My point is that she makes a point to say she doesn't have any racial hang-ups, yet she brings up race once again in a thread like that has absolutely nothing to do with race. Wonder why that tends to happen?
Originally Posted by Myradella3

2b/2c Henndigo curls
Currently using: Deva low-poo and OC, KCKT/KCCC, JCCC, & BRHG. + Curlease towel
Also have had success with: CK, FSG, KBB, AOHR, Nature's Gate Conditioner.

pw: curlygirl


yo, thats because the church is supposed to take care of people.

not the government.

just because i dont support obama, doesnt mean i dont care what happens to people. i believe the church and charities should take care of someone else.
Originally Posted by Sleigh

This is the crux of the difference - who owns the responsiblity for taking care of those who cannot take care of themselves.

I believe that government (ie all of us) bears responsibilty (not all, but a good chunk) to ensuring we all have basic human needs. I view it as a moral/ethical issue, a health issue, as well as a national security issue.

I don't want the reprocussions of not taking care of the poor to be primarily in the hands of the private/social services sector - especially with so many charities having religion tied to providing those services.
hello.world.
Speckla
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Posts: n/a

yo, thats because the church is supposed to take care of people.

not the government.

just because i dont support obama, doesnt mean i dont care what happens to people. i believe the church and charities should take care of someone else.
Originally Posted by Sleigh

This is the crux of the difference - who owns the responsiblity for taking care of those who cannot take care of themselves.

I believe that government (ie all of us) bears responsibilty (not all, but a good chunk) to ensuring we all have basic human needs. I view it as a moral/ethical issue, a health issue, as well as a national security issue.

I don't want the reprocussions of not taking care of the poor to be primarily in the hands of the private/social services sector - especially with so many charities having religion tied to providing those services.
Originally Posted by webjockey

Religious charities should help people simply because they need help and not expect the people to convert to their forms of belief. Should does not always work out to does though.

yo, thats because the church is supposed to take care of people.

not the government.

just because i dont support obama, doesnt mean i dont care what happens to people. i believe the church and charities should take care of someone else.
Originally Posted by Sleigh

This is the crux of the difference - who owns the responsiblity for taking care of those who cannot take care of themselves.

I believe that government (ie all of us) bears responsibilty (not all, but a good chunk) to ensuring we all have basic human needs. I view it as a moral/ethical issue, a health issue, as well as a national security issue.

I don't want the reprocussions of not taking care of the poor to be primarily in the hands of the private/social services sector - especially with so many charities having religion tied to providing those services.
Originally Posted by webjockey
has nothing to do with "sharing the wealth", it would be owning the wealth- the gov't would own ALL means of production and private ownership would be prohibited. Obama is FAR from socialist.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/826/
Originally Posted by lacunaCoils


These are very good points!


I believe our government is in place to manage those large-scale services, issues and problems we share as a society. Things like, national security, policing/public safety, public works, infrastructure, health, environmental, etc. These are things that should not be private, for-profit functions.


Government or by private ownership of wealth and production is a basic difference between socialism and capitalism. As it stands in the US, that ownership is in about the top 10-20% of our population. One could consider that socialistic capitalism.


And here's a little comic relief on the subject...


Last edited by CocoaCoily; 11-02-2008 at 08:50 AM.
This is an area we'll just have to agree to disagree on. I think our government is very inefficient at most things they do. They are wasteful. Almost everything they do could be (and has been, and should be again, IMO) handled by private businesses. It seems that most things they get into, they screw up. I know it seems totally unrelated, but we have been trying to change the address on a federal form for a client since June of 2007. Every month, when we fill out the form, we mark the change of address spot. We have called the IRS. We have sent a letter. It still has not been changed. I don't want to trust these people with more than we already do.
Are we calling making sure people of this country are taken care of, socialism? That every person should have the right to simple, necessary things, like health care, heat, water - it's considered 'taking care of people' to give someone what they NEED?

You would rather have people homeless and on the streets, or living without heat during the cold months? That's just obnoxiously selfish, and sickening.

You know, even if we DID have a socialist economy, those of you who think it's appropriate to drive your Hummers, constantly build additions and redecorate your homes during this horrible economy will STILL be able to do so.

I can't figure out why people who have so much money are so threatened by lower class, poorer people being taken care of. Is it the fear of closing the gap between classes?

For the record, I find the term 'National Welfare' incredibly offensive.
Speckla
Guest
Posts: n/a
Are we calling making sure people of this country are taken care of, socialism? That every person should have the right to simple, necessary things, like health care, heat, water - it's considered 'taking care of people' to give someone what they NEED?

You would rather have people homeless and on the streets, or living without heat during the cold months? That's just obnoxiously selfish, and sickening.

You know, even if we DID have a socialist economy, those of you who think it's appropriate to drive your Hummers, constantly build additions and redecorate your homes during this horrible economy will STILL be able to do so.

I can't figure out why people who have so much money are so threatened by lower class, poorer people being taken care of. Is it the fear of closing the gap between classes?

For the record, I find the term 'National Welfare' incredibly offensive.
Originally Posted by babywavy

Babywavy,
The helpless (elderly, physically/mentally disabled) should not be left to fend for themselves. A lot of the fear isn't from selfishness but from the thought of the Government getting more power and control and just taking things away from people and them being powerless to do anything about it.

I am all for Capitalism and being able to support yourself. The problem with the current system is that greed is the motivating factor for a lot of businesses. A system needs to be developed to help people to be able to be self-sufficient. Race, age, gender, religious affliations should not be a deciding factor in who gets help.

Yes, everyone needs a hand from time to time and there should be organizations that are available to help through private donations and community efforts. I am for less governmental control, more power in the hands of the citizens... and yes, people to get off their butts and go help who needs help. Who is our brother/neighbor? Anyone who has a need that we can fulfill.
This is an area we'll just have to agree to disagree on. I think our government is very inefficient at most things they do. They are wasteful. Almost everything they do could be (and has been, and should be again, IMO) handled by private businesses. It seems that most things they get into, they screw up. I know it seems totally unrelated, but we have been trying to change the address on a federal form for a client since June of 2007. Every month, when we fill out the form, we mark the change of address spot. We have called the IRS. We have sent a letter. It still has not been changed. I don't want to trust these people with more than we already do.
Originally Posted by Rheanna83
So private businesses and corporations aren't wasteful and don't screw up anything? Isn't that mostly the reason our economy is what it is now- because the corporates lost control, became greedy and went bankrupt, so now the gov't is bailing them out? I don't trust the government OR the corporations- seems they work together to help each other out while the citizens of our country are hung out to dry. It seems Obama's solution makes more sense- to stop helping out the corporations and feeding our money to wars, and start helping the people that really need help - our people. I don't think the government needs to control us in order to help, but we need guidelines to protect people. But I agree with Speckla, too, that people need to help people- we can't depend on the gov't, because they just aren't dependable. (ex. Katrina) Unfortunately, sometimes we can't depend on other people either, since so many of us are greedy and turn our heads on another's pain. Seems we just can't win.

Sorry, I'm just depressed today. I wish the gov't didn't have to get involved, I wish everyone had the same opportunities, I wish everyone were compassionate and would help other people, I wish everyone had time to help other people- sometimes we are too busy just trying to survive ourselves, people are suffering, people are fighting, the environment is suffering, animals are becoming extinct, this is life, this is what we live with, this is what depresses me.
2b/2c Henndigo curls
Currently using: Deva low-poo and OC, KCKT/KCCC, JCCC, & BRHG. + Curlease towel
Also have had success with: CK, FSG, KBB, AOHR, Nature's Gate Conditioner.

pw: curlygirl


Last edited by lacunaCoils; 11-02-2008 at 12:11 PM.

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