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Old 03-07-2006, 08:16 AM   #1
 
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Default State of US Schools/Education

This is always a hot topic during election years. After being a member here I am starting to understand why our educational system is in such disarray.

Other than the beaten to death soundbites of funding and teacher salaries, what do you think are other problems-----specific, general, big, small, personal, impersonal (they all matter, if only for one school/one teacher/one student)-----with your schools/education system?

I now think that a major problem is that some teachers spend the work day posting on the internet and all night too, so when do they sleep and when do they teach. FYI I don't care what they do with their personal time but I sure don't like the idea of my tax dollars supporting internet addictions.

Some high school students post on the internet constantly and consistently throughout the school day. This is totally confusing. One hour if they have a computer course, I could understand but all freaking day Mon-Fri. SMH

What happened to pre-calculus and caculus I & II? What happened to Civics & Goverment and Phyics? What is going on in the schools when the teachers and the students can spend the hours of 8am-4pm logged onto the internet and ACTIVE?

My tax dollars, and yours, at work.
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Old 03-07-2006, 09:15 AM   #2
 
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I will leave my post on the table for the premise. However, I just discovered that troll aliases along with my post in why websites fail discussion explains/resolves the specific cases that provoked this thread.
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Old 03-07-2006, 09:49 AM   #3
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by =~ohura~=
I will leave my post on the table for the premise. However, I just discovered that troll aliases along with my post in why websites fail discussion explains/resolves the specific cases that provoked this thread.
I don't know what you mean by this. I tried to search that thread and could not find it.

I didn't even know that gradeschool teachers had access to the intenet during school time. I guess whatever reflections I'd make about the public school system would be very irrelevant and outdated now. LOL
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Old 03-08-2006, 12:59 AM   #4
 
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Default Re: State of US Schools/Education

Quote:
Originally Posted by =~ohura~=
I now think that a major problem is that some teachers spend the work day posting on the internet and all night too, so when do they sleep and when do they teach. FYI I don't care what they do with their personal time but I sure don't like the idea of my tax dollars supporting internet addictions.
Out of curiousity, what do you feel would be the appropriate amount of time for a teacher to spend on school-related issues? How much sleep should we be required to get? It's almost 10:00 pm here - should I be in bed already? How much Internet time would be appropriate, and could this time be spent during lunch hours, breaks, etc., or do you have a specific time in mind? Where would the planning be appropriate - Some teachers plan at home, some from home and school, some just from school? Do you have guidelines in mind?

I would actually agree with you on what I quoted as a problem, but probably not in the way you meant it. The underlying problem of what you mentioned, from my perspective, is schools not utilizing their faculty appropriately. For instance, I have mentioned here that I have 2 1/2 - 3 1/2 hours per day when I have students in my classroom. At my particular school, special education is pull-out or resource room, so there is no other place where I am utilized except the students who are placed on my case load. My official work day is 8 - 2:15. The most I need to plan/prep on a regular day is 45 minutes (this year I have 8 students total), since I do curriculum mapping at the beginning of each quarter (this takes a couple of days time, but we are given at least a week's break between each quarter). Then, I've taken courses every year I've taught to learn and apply something new in the field, so that takes up time. I read education journals, and even sometimes support my Internet habit by reading education websites, finding Internet educational games for my students, looking for items to order for my classroom, etc.

I obviously spend more time on my own professional development than what I posted above, but my point is that before I came here, I never had time to post on the Internet from school because I was with students all day. Either I taught regular ed, special ed inclusion, or ESL inclusion, so other than my planning period, I was with students. My schedule was charted wisely to have me actually teaching as many hours as possible. That is not the case in every school, and especially with unions.

So, what I see from an insider's perspective is:

1. Poor local school structuring (this includes the issue you discussed, but from my perspective) which includes poor use of the funding we do have

2. Disparity in quality and experience of teachers from school to school

3. Teachers not involving parents in their childrens' education, and parents who don't care to be involved

4. Children coming to school without their basic needs met, hunger being one (some school districts are fixing this by offering free breakfast to every child, regardless of income - that's a first step)

5. Districts not requiring AND overseeing/offering substantive continuing education for teachers/educational assistants

6. Lack of positive behavior management techniques/programs taught to teachers and administrators to proactively deal with some of the discipline issues that arise

7. No prescribed curriculum for teachers to use as a starting point. So many untrained teachers are being put into the classroom because of shortages, but they don't have anything to follow in terms of what a school year at their grade level in their district should look like. You really see the disparities when children from different schools move to middle school/high school. What they've learned varies from school to school, and it shouldn't with state-wide standards in place.

8. School day should be longer. By the time you take out recess(es), lunch, special subjects, assemblies, library time, etc., students at my school spend about 3 1/2 hours on actual academics - minus whatever time is being spent on discipline, self-esteem, and other issues.

9. No parent training offered at most schools, and no real effort to get parents involved. This is different than my other one, but probably could all be tied together.

10. No effort to get the local community involved in the school.


I could go on and on with small and big problems. One specific to my school is that they haven't had new reading textbooks in over 10 years (they haven't given me a straight answer yet, but a teacher who has been there 13 years says the books were there when she came).

Another problem is lack of varied technology in classrooms, as well as lack of training for teachers on how to operate what is there. Most teachers at schools I've worked at don't even know how to use the Internet, so they are definitely not posting from work.

I'll come back and see if anything is added, but if you think posting from work/home is the major problem in education - wow!! Though, I guess I'm part of the problem as you see it, so I've just proven your point by even answering your question :shrugs: I'm off to get a little sleep before I get back to feeding my addiction tomorrow! Good night!
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Old 03-08-2006, 06:56 AM   #5
 
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Dia, I only read the first paragraph of your post. If I have time, I may read the rest. See my post in the OP for the answers to your first paragraph.
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Old 03-08-2006, 04:54 PM   #6
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by =~ohura~=
Dia, I only read the first paragraph of your post. If I have time, I may read the rest. See my post in the OP for the answers to your first paragraph.
I answered your question in the rest of the post - I thought it was a good question. If you're not going to read responses to your questions, let me know next time and I won't bother answering in your thread. Also, if you have/are an alias, let me know that, too (via PM if you like), so I won't respond to the other "you" either unless that version actually reads responses.

I don't know what the "why websites fail" reference is either, spiderlashes.
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Old 03-08-2006, 10:20 PM   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dia99
Quote:
Originally Posted by =~ohura~=
Dia, I only read the first paragraph of your post. If I have time, I may read the rest. See my post in the OP for the answers to your first paragraph.
I answered your question in the rest of the post - I thought it was a good question. If you're not going to read responses to your questions, let me know next time and I won't bother answering in your thread. Also, if you have/are an alias, let me know that, too (via PM if you like), so I won't respond to the other "you" either unless that version actually reads responses.

I don't know what the "why websites fail" reference is either, spiderlashes.
If your tendency is to say in 3000 words what could be said in 30, please be my guest and take your invitation to not post in my threads (that goes for you and your aliases). I don't like to spend all my time on the internet fulfilling anyone's need for attention. Others are better at that. I guess it's the engineer in me that desires succintness and efficiency and a full life that leaves me with no desire to entertain futility.
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Old 03-08-2006, 10:58 PM   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by =~ohura~=
Quote:
Originally Posted by dia99
Quote:
Originally Posted by =~ohura~=
Dia, I only read the first paragraph of your post. If I have time, I may read the rest. See my post in the OP for the answers to your first paragraph.
I answered your question in the rest of the post - I thought it was a good question. If you're not going to read responses to your questions, let me know next time and I won't bother answering in your thread. Also, if you have/are an alias, let me know that, too (via PM if you like), so I won't respond to the other "you" either unless that version actually reads responses.

I don't know what the "why websites fail" reference is either, spiderlashes.
If your tendency is to say in 3000 words what could be said in 30, please be my guest and take your invitation to not post in my threads (that goes for you and your aliases). I don't like to spend all my time on the internet fulfilling anyone's need for attention. Others are better at that. I guess it's the engineer in me that desires succintness and efficiency and a full life that leaves me with no desire to entertain futility.
I guess it's just *you* that leaves your threads so low in responses. Have fun talking to yourself again! If I were certain of your aliases, I wouldn't post there, either - I'll await that PM.
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Old 03-08-2006, 11:18 PM   #9
 
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Dia, in your honest opinon, don't you think it is the school's responsibility to give you something to do? Should a school that cannot afford textbooks pay a teacher for a full day of work when he/she is only doing half?

I'm not being snarky, I just really think that the administration should be more involved with what the teachers are doing. Someone with two classes a day could be substituting classes, tutoring, or assisting other teachers. You may spend your time productively, but what if no one else in your position did?
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Old 03-08-2006, 11:31 PM   #10
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tantrum
Dia, in your honest opinon, don't you think it is the school's responsibility to give you something to do? Should a school that cannot afford textbooks pay a teacher for a full day of work when he/she is only doing half?

I'm not being snarky, I just really think that the administration should be more involved with what the teachers are doing. Someone with two classes a day could be substituting classes, tutoring, or assisting other teachers. You may spend your time productively, but what if no one else in your position did?
This is exactly my position! I have gone to them and asked about inclusion, but my school does not want to do that. Teachers don't want other teachers in "their" classrooms, and administrators are not making it happen. tantrum, I'm moving my response to non-hair so I won't disturb ohura's groove!
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Old 03-08-2006, 11:48 PM   #11
 
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Based on what I've read, and seen on those primetime types of programs, I believe that in the public school system there is no incentive for teachers to outperform one another. There will of course be the passionate self-starters who try to make a difference, but the bottomline is that lack of competition leads to low standards, and no real drive to improve quality of teaching.

I think this is why I like the concept of the charter schools.
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Old 03-09-2006, 02:45 AM   #12
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dia99
Quote:
Originally Posted by =~ohura~=
Quote:
Originally Posted by dia99
Quote:
Originally Posted by =~ohura~=
Dia, I only read the first paragraph of your post. If I have time, I may read the rest. See my post in the OP for the answers to your first paragraph.
I answered your question in the rest of the post - I thought it was a good question. If you're not going to read responses to your questions, let me know next time and I won't bother answering in your thread. Also, if you have/are an alias, let me know that, too (via PM if you like), so I won't respond to the other "you" either unless that version actually reads responses.

I don't know what the "why websites fail" reference is either, spiderlashes.
If your tendency is to say in 3000 words what could be said in 30, please be my guest and take your invitation to not post in my threads (that goes for you and your aliases). I don't like to spend all my time on the internet fulfilling anyone's need for attention. Others are better at that. I guess it's the engineer in me that desires succintness and efficiency and a full life that leaves me with no desire to entertain futility.
I guess it's just *you* that leaves your threads so low in responses. Have fun talking to yourself again! If I were certain of your aliases, I wouldn't post there, either - I'll await that PM.
Careful, your aliases are showing. Actually, unlike you, I don't use aliases to boost my own ego or my threads (or to help maintain a pollyanna fascade under one while showing true colors under others). If I posted within my threads with aliases, they would get as many responses as yours---not to mention that I am not so weak and pathetic as to depend on the internet buddy system for threading and to try and blackball posters.

I prefer to do my own thinking and to express my own opinion and fortunately that is independent of the number of posts from others and your aliases.
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Old 03-09-2006, 02:51 AM   #13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dia99
Quote:
Originally Posted by tantrum
Dia, in your honest opinon, don't you think it is the school's responsibility to give you something to do? Should a school that cannot afford textbooks pay a teacher for a full day of work when he/she is only doing half?

I'm not being snarky, I just really think that the administration should be more involved with what the teachers are doing. Someone with two classes a day could be substituting classes, tutoring, or assisting other teachers. You may spend your time productively, but what if no one else in your position did?
This is exactly my position! I have gone to them and asked about inclusion, but my school does not want to do that. Teachers don't want other teachers in "their" classrooms, and administrators are not making it happen. tantrum, I'm moving my response to non-hair so I won't disturb ohura's groove!
Please continue to play on the presumed lack of critical thinking of others and feign like you didn't bring the snark in here. It will always work with your aliases and your lackeys no doubt. I really do find this tactic funny every time you and the others of you use it.
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Old 03-09-2006, 02:56 AM   #14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherish
Based on what I've read, and seen on those primetime types of programs, I believe that in the public school system there is no incentive for teachers to outperform one another. There will of course be the passionate self-starters who try to make a difference, but the bottomline is that lack of competition leads to low standards, and no real drive to improve quality of teaching.
Good point and I completely agree.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherish
I think this is why I like the concept of the charter schools.
What incentives do charter schools provide for teachers?
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Old 03-09-2006, 08:58 AM   #15
 
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If you really believe I have an alias,

If you're just talking trash,

You're confusing yourself with your conspiracy theories - in one sentence you say that I brought the snark, and in another you say I create aliases so that I uphold my "Pollyanna facade." I wouldn't describe Pollyanna as snarky; I just watched that movie again with my daughter (Dia, of dia99). Get a grip, girl! I'm really just that nice!

Now, I'm out of this thread for real. I just knew you'd give me a laugh this morning! Thanks!! I guess I'll go use my nonexistent moderator abilities to shut down some of your aliases.
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Old 03-09-2006, 11:12 AM   #16
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dia99
If you really believe I have an alias,

If you're just talking trash,

You're confusing yourself with your conspiracy theories - in one sentence you say that I brought the snark, and in another you say I create aliases so that I uphold my "Pollyanna facade." I wouldn't describe Pollyanna as snarky; I just watched that movie again with my daughter (Dia, of dia99). Get a grip, girl! I'm really just that nice!

Now, I'm out of this thread for real. I just knew you'd give me a laugh this morning! Thanks!! I guess I'll go use my nonexistent moderator abilities to shut down some of your aliases.
I am happy to give you a laugh because I was starting to feel guilty about the one-sided amusement.

They really should raise standards for teachers although I know this display is more of a diversion for legitmate readers than the ignorance that is feigned. You use your other aliases to vent the real you and *try* to maintain the phony pollyanna facade under this one. Again, I invite you to take your own advice and get a grip---and get more than that as necessary---to get over the AWism, along with the other issues that require those aliases of yours. SMH but the you's do amuse me and as you already know I will continue to respond in kind to *them* despite being fully aware of the cowardly trollism. I don't need aliases and I hope you are smart enough to realize that but I do understand the need to project and divert when in your situation. Bye, girl!!
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Old 03-09-2006, 03:30 PM   #17
 
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WTF?
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Old 03-09-2006, 04:37 PM   #18
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by =~ohura~=
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherish
Based on what I've read, and seen on those primetime types of programs, I believe that in the public school system there is no incentive for teachers to outperform one another. There will of course be the passionate self-starters who try to make a difference, but the bottomline is that lack of competition leads to low standards, and no real drive to improve quality of teaching.
Good point and I completely agree.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherish
I think this is why I like the concept of the charter schools.
What incentives do charter schools provide for teachers?
What I understand is that public school teachers are somehow "tenured" in that they are extremely difficult to fire. Even if a teacher has been shown to be abusive (verbal or sexual), getting them out of the system takes YEARS. So, imagine what it must take to get rid of the completely useless ones! Furthermore, pay and raises are not based on performance.

In the charter system, teachers can be fired more easily, and pay is performance based so there's pressure (I guess by incentive I mean pressure) to perform.
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Old 03-10-2006, 03:08 AM   #19
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherish
Quote:
Originally Posted by =~ohura~=
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherish
Based on what I've read, and seen on those primetime types of programs, I believe that in the public school system there is no incentive for teachers to outperform one another. There will of course be the passionate self-starters who try to make a difference, but the bottomline is that lack of competition leads to low standards, and no real drive to improve quality of teaching.
Good point and I completely agree.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherish
I think this is why I like the concept of the charter schools.
What incentives do charter schools provide for teachers?
What I understand is that public school teachers are somehow "tenured" in that they are extremely difficult to fire. Even if a teacher has been shown to be abusive (verbal or sexual), getting them out of the system takes YEARS. So, imagine what it must take to get rid of the completely useless ones! Furthermore, pay and raises are not based on performance.

In the charter system, teachers can be fired more easily, and pay is performance based so there's pressure (I guess by incentive I mean pressure) to perform.
Gotcha. I didn't know what you meant by incentives of charter schools.Public school systems can have tenure and I agree with your post.

The most egregious cases of tenure are at the post secondary level. To say the least, this system is designed to maintain mediocrity at the professorial level (and anywhere tenure is in place actually). It is no wonder that, despite being the most technologically advanced and richest country, the US ranks among the lowest of countries in all educational and peformance indicators. SMH

There is currently a movement being initiated by a professor to have the tenure system ended at colleges and universities. It is long overdue. I can't think of any good reason tenure was ever placed to begin with at an elementary or secondary level.
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Old 03-10-2006, 07:17 PM   #20
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by =~ohura~=
Gotcha. I didn't know what you meant by incentives of charter schools.Public school systems can have tenure and I agree with your post.

The most egregious cases of tenure are at the post secondary level. To say the least, this system is designed to maintain mediocrity at the professorial level (and anywhere tenure is in place actually). It is no wonder that, despite being the most technologically advanced and richest country, the US ranks among the lowest of countries in all educational and peformance indicators. SMH

There is currently a movement being initiated by a professor to have the tenure system ended at colleges and universities. It is long overdue. I can't think of any good reason tenure was ever placed to begin with at an elementary or secondary level.
I agree with what that professor is trying to do, but he/she has a long and tough road ahead. That system is not going down without a nasty fight!
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