Go Back   CurlTalk > Life > Politics

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-06-2009, 09:19 PM   #61
 
Amneris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 25,108
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by susancnw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TillyMunchyWaves View Post
I don't know why the term "Biracial" annoys me so much. I think it's because it doesn't mean anything, it's just this weird third term that denies a person of claiming any heredity. My mother is white and my father is Indian (India) and I've never considered myself biracial. I've never even heard the term until I watched a Montel Williams talkshow, ha ha.

I HATE when people now say, Obama isn't our first black president. He's BIRACIAL. What the hell does that mean? Now that's he's been elected he's not black anymore?

Susan you are just kind of being arrogant. Why are you trying to deny that Barack Obama is black? Why is it so important to you to make such a big deal about it?
You aren't paying attention. He's green.
You aren't making sense. What is that supposed to mean? Why is his colour such an issue with you at all?
__________________
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











Amneris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2009, 09:33 PM   #62
 
susancnw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,350
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amneris View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by susancnw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trenell View Post

Doesn't Obama identify himself as black?

It's funny. There are some that held on tightly to the one-drop rule (one DROP of black blood=you're black) and not in a warm fuzzy sort of way. NOW that Obama has been elected president these same people are all enlightened and calling him "biracial" (Damned if they are going to have a BLACK president)
Boy, damned if I do, damned if I don't. How about if I refer to him as green? And depending on what paper you read, they all refer to him differently. Should I use the references from the Kenyan papers and call him the first Kenyan president? His mother was Caucasian, his father is Kenya. I'm trying to be accurate here. As far as the one drop black goes, I fall into that category and I guess I should start referring to myself as black. I never 'got' that 'rule' and thought it was incredibly stupid from the first time I heard it in jr. high in history class. My opinion on it has not changed.

I'm not 'worked' up about it. You've not seen me 'worked up' and it's not pretty. I've got better things to do. I just find it interesting what the media chooses to focus on. Ever president goes from having reasonably easy access to people and things and then go into a more circumscribed orbit, but we didn't see volumes of letters about their adjustment, etc. What makes him so special? Other families have moved into the WH from family homes and we didn't hear that much about it. Amy Carter, Chelsea Clinton, etc. The Kennedy kids were little, and the press was just as enamored of him as they are the Obamas.

I'm finding the press coverage fascinating on how they slant it. And no, I don't watch the news on any channel, period. I stopped during the 2004 campaign. As I said, I read, a lot...all sorts of papers all over the world and the nation so I get a lot of perspectives.

SBB - and yeah, a dead president is still dead. But these men and women have been chosen to protect the first purple president. What an incredible honor, and I think the circumstances would be worse simply because even more eyes and fingers would point, along with accusations of racism, bigotry, etc.

And my God, inability for libs here to understand sarcasm, irony, etc is absolutely incredible. Patience, thanks for the link. She said what I wanted to so much more eloquently. I love this bit from it--context is that she is Hispanic and was referring definitively to Latinos.

"But since 2000, when it became possible for a citizen to register in more than one racial category, many of us began checking them all: indigenous, white, Asian, African. It would be false to do otherwise. "Todo plátano tiene su manchita negra," as we say. Every banana has its little bit of black."

When I saw that for the first time, I did think, wow, I'm covered completely...although I'm not sure about the Asian as I've never had a comprehensive DNA test done, but, like her, from family stories and pics.

But again, it gets dragged back around to the proclamation that I am a bigot when I'm just tired of hearing about the intimate details of dealing with becoming the president. He's not doing anything that previous presidents haven't done...so do we have to have a big pity party for him and his family? And can the media just go away?

It was easier to find information on what he's dealing with emotionally than it was to find info on what was going on in Mumbai for 5 days...I've got friends over there that I was worried about...and internet wasn't that great....everyone that I used to know in Chicago is safe..
Really? I am curious... where does your Black blood come from? A parent, grandparent?
From what we can tell, great great grandparents on maternal side, both her parents...wait, did that make any sense? On my mom's side, her maternal great grandparents...there is Native America/black. OK, LA. My paternal cousins are both sycle cell anemia (sp?) carriers and my understanding of it is that it is a genetic marker of sorts for some ethnicities...but I've not done much research into it...my cousin's a nurse and let us know when she found out, just for medical history purposes, and it's one of those that I figured, well, if I am, I am, but it's not a biggie...
__________________
My son wears combat boots (and a parachute).
The older I get, the less patience I have with cleverness. Thomas Sowell.
Resolve to perform what you ought. Perform without fail what you resolve. Benjamin Franklin.
Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. Mark Twain.



susancnw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2009, 09:38 PM   #63
 
susancnw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,350
Default

Oh yeah, my aunt had done several decades worth of family research and had painstakingly found and researched records. For some reason a lot of it was in her vehicle and it was stolen...they trashed the records, etc. No one knows why she had it in there unless she'd been to the library.

We did find out some years ago that my mom's oldest sister is really her half sister and no one is sure if grandad was her father or not....and for some reason the idea that our grandmother was a hussy has tickled several of us cousins to pieces. Gave us new insight to grandma...also explained the advice she gave my older sister once to sleep with her BF before they got married so, "she'd know what she was getting'. Shocked mom so much she left the room and my sister and I were howling...mom walked out and grandmother said, "I don't know how I raised a prude!"....which had us laughing even harder ;D
__________________
My son wears combat boots (and a parachute).
The older I get, the less patience I have with cleverness. Thomas Sowell.
Resolve to perform what you ought. Perform without fail what you resolve. Benjamin Franklin.
Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. Mark Twain.



susancnw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 08:23 AM   #64
 
Eilonwy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,124
Default

McCain and nearly every past presidential candidate has benefited from being white. Why would it matter if Obama benefited from his race (and it's pretty clear that he didn't)?

One of my great grandparents was North African, and it is therefore likely that some of my ancestors were black! If Obama gets to say he's black, then I do, too! Even though no one perceives me as black and I have no connections to African or African diaspora cultures (not even North African)!

And just to make it clear:

Last edited by Eilonwy; 01-08-2009 at 08:33 AM.
Eilonwy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 08:50 AM   #65
 
RedCatWaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 31,609
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
McCain and nearly every past presidential candidate has benefited from being white. Why would it matter if Obama benefited from his race (and it's pretty clear that he didn't)?

One of my great grandparents was North African, and it is therefore likely that some of my ancestors were black! If Obama gets to say he's black, then I do, too! Even though no one perceives me as black and I have no connections to African or African diaspora cultures (not even North African)!

And just to make it clear:

I know...that's like me saying I'm jewish because my great-grandparents on my father's mother's side emigrated from Germany in 1860 and one of them was jewish. I have no cultural connection to anything jewish and none of my known ancestors went through the Holocaust, so saying I'm of jewish extraction to justify making anti-semitic comments would just be pandering.

To susancnw: All humans came out of Africa, so we were all once black, but unless you have dark skin, or have been perceived as a black person or grew up with dark-skinned close relatives...you ain't "black".
RedCatWaves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 01:57 PM   #66
 
Suburbanbushbabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 16,020
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by susancnw
from what we can tell, great great grandparents on maternal side, both her parents...wait, did that make any sense? On my mom's side, her maternal great grandparents...there is Native America/black. OK, LA. My paternal cousins are both sycle cell anemia (sp?) carriers and my understanding of it is that it is a genetic marker of sorts for some ethnicities...but I've not done much research into it...my cousin's a nurse and let us know when she found out, just for medical history purposes, and it's one of those that I figured, well, if I am, I am, but it's not a biggie...
So do you have any plans to express your Blackness?
__________________
My blog - http://suburbanbushbabe.wordpress.com/
My FOTKI - http://whatsnew.fotki.com/suburbanbushbabe/


Playing with my hair is a hobby. Fluffy, fine natural 4a. Goal= Healthy, beautiful hair that retains its length.
Quote:
Hear that crash? It's me falling off the CG wagon.
Suburbanbushbabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 05:12 PM   #67
 
Koukla72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,640
Default

Oh man, this thread gets better and better!
Koukla72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 07:11 PM   #68
 
RedCatWaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 31,609
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanbushbabe View Post
So do you have any plans to express your Blackness?


Share that popcorn please...this is gonna be good...
RedCatWaves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 12:36 PM   #69
 
susancnw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,350
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanbushbabe View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by susancnw
from what we can tell, great great grandparents on maternal side, both her parents...wait, did that make any sense? On my mom's side, her maternal great grandparents...there is Native America/black. OK, LA. My paternal cousins are both sycle cell anemia (sp?) carriers and my understanding of it is that it is a genetic marker of sorts for some ethnicities...but I've not done much research into it...my cousin's a nurse and let us know when she found out, just for medical history purposes, and it's one of those that I figured, well, if I am, I am, but it's not a biggie...
So do you have any plans to express your Blackness?
No more than I celebrate my 'whiteness'....and are you kidding? The grief I get around here anyway....shall I rock my curly hair? ;D Any suggestions?

Good thing my paternal GM is dead...although she is probably rolling in her grave at the discussion ;D You should have seen her reaction in her 80s when she thought my cousin was dating an "Eye-talian" 'cause she was probably Catholic. Guess it's a good thing she didn't stick around to find out he's gay

And, once again, ya'll have managed to change the subject....now he's complaining more about giving up the Blackberry.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...thout-a-fight/

Other than being concerned about it being hacked, the texts can be used against him and the GPS in those things cannot be disabled...it is integrated and can be used for tracking. Let's not give a nutjob any sort of advantage.
__________________
My son wears combat boots (and a parachute).
The older I get, the less patience I have with cleverness. Thomas Sowell.
Resolve to perform what you ought. Perform without fail what you resolve. Benjamin Franklin.
Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. Mark Twain.



susancnw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 01:10 PM   #70
 
Poodlehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 9,278
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by susancnw View Post
And, once again, ya'll have managed to change the subject....now he's complaining more about giving up the Blackberry.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...thout-a-fight/

Other than being concerned about it being hacked, the texts can be used against him and the GPS in those things cannot be disabled...it is integrated and can be used for tracking. Let's not give a nutjob any sort of advantage.
It's not like he's saying he won't give it up, he's just saying he is used to relying on it, and now he's going to have to adjust to being without it. You would say the same thing if all your technology was taken away.
__________________
Minneapolis, MN
Poodlehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 01:17 PM   #71
 
Suburbanbushbabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 16,020
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poodlehead View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by susancnw View Post
And, once again, ya'll have managed to change the subject....now he's complaining more about giving up the Blackberry.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...thout-a-fight/

Other than being concerned about it being hacked, the texts can be used against him and the GPS in those things cannot be disabled...it is integrated and can be used for tracking. Let's not give a nutjob any sort of advantage.
It's not like he's saying he won't give it up, he's just saying he is used to relying on it, and now he's going to have to adjust to being without it. You would say the same thing if all your technology was taken away.
Yeah Susan, we have to get you onto Life on the Prairie
__________________
My blog - http://suburbanbushbabe.wordpress.com/
My FOTKI - http://whatsnew.fotki.com/suburbanbushbabe/


Playing with my hair is a hobby. Fluffy, fine natural 4a. Goal= Healthy, beautiful hair that retains its length.
Quote:
Hear that crash? It's me falling off the CG wagon.
Suburbanbushbabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 03:13 PM   #72
 
Amneris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 25,108
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by susancnw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amneris View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by susancnw View Post

Boy, damned if I do, damned if I don't. How about if I refer to him as green? And depending on what paper you read, they all refer to him differently. Should I use the references from the Kenyan papers and call him the first Kenyan president? His mother was Caucasian, his father is Kenya. I'm trying to be accurate here. As far as the one drop black goes, I fall into that category and I guess I should start referring to myself as black. I never 'got' that 'rule' and thought it was incredibly stupid from the first time I heard it in jr. high in history class. My opinion on it has not changed.

I'm not 'worked' up about it. You've not seen me 'worked up' and it's not pretty. I've got better things to do. I just find it interesting what the media chooses to focus on. Ever president goes from having reasonably easy access to people and things and then go into a more circumscribed orbit, but we didn't see volumes of letters about their adjustment, etc. What makes him so special? Other families have moved into the WH from family homes and we didn't hear that much about it. Amy Carter, Chelsea Clinton, etc. The Kennedy kids were little, and the press was just as enamored of him as they are the Obamas.

I'm finding the press coverage fascinating on how they slant it. And no, I don't watch the news on any channel, period. I stopped during the 2004 campaign. As I said, I read, a lot...all sorts of papers all over the world and the nation so I get a lot of perspectives.

SBB - and yeah, a dead president is still dead. But these men and women have been chosen to protect the first purple president. What an incredible honor, and I think the circumstances would be worse simply because even more eyes and fingers would point, along with accusations of racism, bigotry, etc.

And my God, inability for libs here to understand sarcasm, irony, etc is absolutely incredible. Patience, thanks for the link. She said what I wanted to so much more eloquently. I love this bit from it--context is that she is Hispanic and was referring definitively to Latinos.

"But since 2000, when it became possible for a citizen to register in more than one racial category, many of us began checking them all: indigenous, white, Asian, African. It would be false to do otherwise. "Todo plátano tiene su manchita negra," as we say. Every banana has its little bit of black."

When I saw that for the first time, I did think, wow, I'm covered completely...although I'm not sure about the Asian as I've never had a comprehensive DNA test done, but, like her, from family stories and pics.

But again, it gets dragged back around to the proclamation that I am a bigot when I'm just tired of hearing about the intimate details of dealing with becoming the president. He's not doing anything that previous presidents haven't done...so do we have to have a big pity party for him and his family? And can the media just go away?

It was easier to find information on what he's dealing with emotionally than it was to find info on what was going on in Mumbai for 5 days...I've got friends over there that I was worried about...and internet wasn't that great....everyone that I used to know in Chicago is safe..
Really? I am curious... where does your Black blood come from? A parent, grandparent?
From what we can tell, great great grandparents on maternal side, both her parents...wait, did that make any sense? On my mom's side, her maternal great grandparents...there is Native America/black. OK, LA. My paternal cousins are both sycle cell anemia (sp?) carriers and my understanding of it is that it is a genetic marker of sorts for some ethnicities...but I've not done much research into it...my cousin's a nurse and let us know when she found out, just for medical history purposes, and it's one of those that I figured, well, if I am, I am, but it's not a biggie...
That doesn't qualify you to count yourself as Black for the purpose of disparing Blacks. You don't have any known Black ancestry or relatives and presumably are not identifiably Black or part of any Black community, have not experienced life as a Black person or been treated as Black. From what you are saying, your great great grandparents MAY have some Black ancestry. EVEN with strict one-drop-ism, to be considered Black, a person had to be "one-eighth" Black and you don't even know for sure if you qualify for that. I think there are a lot of "white" people with the amount of Black blood that you have. It's great that you acknowledge yours - a lot don't - but it doesn't give you the right to try to claim a common identity with those of us who live as Black every day, for the purpose of denying our experiences and issues.
__________________
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











Amneris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 04:03 PM   #73
 
journotraveler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amneris View Post

That doesn't qualify you to count yourself as Black for the purpose of disparing Blacks. You don't have any known Black ancestry or relatives and presumably are not identifiably Black or part of any Black community, have not experienced life as a Black person or been treated as Black. From what you are saying, your great great grandparents MAY have some Black ancestry. EVEN with strict one-drop-ism, to be considered Black, a person had to be "one-eighth" Black and you don't even know for sure if you qualify for that. I think there are a lot of "white" people with the amount of Black blood that you have. It's great that you acknowledge yours - a lot don't - but it doesn't give you the right to try to claim a common identity with those of us who live as Black every day, for the purpose of denying our experiences and issues.
i agree with this. however, i just wanted to point one thing out regarding the "one-eighth" black one-drop rule thing. in louisiana, as late as 1970, there was a statute defining a "Negro" as anyone who had "at least 1/32 Negro blood." in 1983, there was a famous case where a woman sued to have "Negro" taken off her birth certificate. she looked white, thought she was white, until she saw her birth certificate. apparently, she had one black ancestor who'd been a slave. she actually lost the case.
__________________
3B corkscrews with scatterings of 3A & 3C.
journotraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 04:19 PM   #74
 
TillyMunchyWaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 671
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amneris View Post

That doesn't qualify you to count yourself as Black for the purpose of disparing Blacks. You don't have any known Black ancestry or relatives and presumably are not identifiably Black or part of any Black community, have not experienced life as a Black person or been treated as Black. From what you are saying, your great great grandparents MAY have some Black ancestry. EVEN with strict one-drop-ism, to be considered Black, a person had to be "one-eighth" Black and you don't even know for sure if you qualify for that. I think there are a lot of "white" people with the amount of Black blood that you have. It's great that you acknowledge yours - a lot don't - but it doesn't give you the right to try to claim a common identity with those of us who live as Black every day, for the purpose of denying our experiences and issues.
Thank you so much Amneris. This is what I couldn't articulate exactily myself.
__________________
Wavy, curly on the ends, 2C.
Coarse to medium textured, porous, dry, and lots of it.
Shampoo--HSH Pumpkin, Abba Pure Moisture
LVPNG, HSH Pumpkin, Walgreen's Knockoffs--Condish/Cowash
AOHR, Nexxus, EO--LI
CK & ReCoil--Activator
Suave Max Hold, Alagio Curl-Gel
For inquiring minds who want to know:
http://www.public.fotki.com/TillyErnissee
TillyMunchyWaves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 03:26 AM   #75
 
Eilonwy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,124
Default

When you become president, you don't just turn over your Blackberry. You also have to relinquish your ability to feel and express disappointment, frustration, regret, and grief.

Why must Obama emasculate all red-blooded males in this country with his disgusting dependency on "emotions"?

Seriously, what was the point of this thread?
Eilonwy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 06:32 AM   #76
 
MichelleBFT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,734
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post

Seriously, what was the point of this thread?

Hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, and a little bit of jealous.

But mostly hate.
__________________
"And politically correct is the worst term, not just because it’s dismissive, but because it narrows down the whole social justice spectrum to this idea that it’s about being polite instead of about dismantling the oppressive social structure of power.
Fun Fact: When you actively avoid being “PC,” you’re not being forward-thinking or unique. You’re buying into systems of oppression that have existed since before you were even born, and you’re keeping those systems in place."
Stolen.
MichelleBFT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 06:43 AM   #77
 
Amneris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 25,108
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichelleBFT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post

Seriously, what was the point of this thread?

Hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, and a little bit of jealous.

But mostly hate.
I think the point was that some people just cannot accept that a Black man is about to officially become the President of the US - and will do any kind of logical gymnastics they can to deny that this is how they feel.

But the rest of us are
__________________
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











Amneris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 06:55 AM   #78
 
2happy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,932
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amneris View Post

I think the point was that some people just cannot accept that a Black man is about to officially become the President of the US - and will do any kind of logical gymnastics they can to deny that this is how they feel.
Do you honestly think that? After all the time that this political race went on, and all the reading that I've done (here), I would have to say that the OP has very different political beliefs. *shrug*
__________________
Handle every stressful situation like a dog. If you can't eat it or hump it.....Piss on it and walk away.
Location - WI
2happy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 07:10 AM   #79
 
Amneris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 25,108
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2happy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amneris View Post

I think the point was that some people just cannot accept that a Black man is about to officially become the President of the US - and will do any kind of logical gymnastics they can to deny that this is how they feel.
Do you honestly think that? After all the time that this political race went on, and all the reading that I've done (here), I would have to say that the OP has very different political beliefs. *shrug*
Well, yes I do think that, based on the constant obsession with "what colour is he" and "he's not Black, he's biracial" and "I'm Black, too." I'm not sure what you mean by "VERY" different political beliefs, but they come across to me as having an element of white supremacy.
__________________
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











Amneris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 07:27 AM   #80
 
Oregano  (formerly babywavy)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,336
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2happy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amneris View Post

I think the point was that some people just cannot accept that a Black man is about to officially become the President of the US - and will do any kind of logical gymnastics they can to deny that this is how they feel.
Do you honestly think that? After all the time that this political race went on, and all the reading that I've done (here), I would have to say that the OP has very different political beliefs. *shrug*


I think most of the complaining and comments about Obama have to do with their issue with having a black president.

A lot of people will say they aren't racist, or it doesn't bother them because it's what their supposed to say, but when it comes to a black man holding the most powerful office, it can cut people the the core.

Not to mention, I just feel he's a wonderful, wonderful man - it seems all there is to focus on is race.
Oregano  (formerly babywavy) is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Trending Topics[-]hide

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2011 NaturallyCurly.com