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Old 12-06-2008, 09:45 AM   #81
 
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Originally Posted by CottonCandyCurls
I have had doubts about Obama since February. I've had doubts about his citizenship status since late March.
Why is it so important to you that this President-elect NOT be a U.S. Citizen? And if you're convinced he is not, why aren't you reporting it to the FBI or something instead of debating it on a hair board?
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Old 12-06-2008, 09:49 AM   #82
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re: certification of birth vs. birth certificate

They are essentially the same thing. When you have a child, you get a short form certificate and a long form certificate (the one we are used to seeing). The certificate that Obama provided is just the short form version. When I got my son's short form in the mail, I remember thinking it looked kind of fake, like I could have printed it myself. However, I've used the short form for various things and it's always been acceptable.
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Old 12-06-2008, 09:55 AM   #83
 
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Why Obama? What's different about him?
hmmmm. Let.Me.Think.

My theory the extreme right are mad as hell to lose a democrat plus he's, you know...
Oh no no no! That can't be it because CCC is black too.

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Some people REALLY don't like black guys.
I'm black and I have no problem with black people.
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Old 12-06-2008, 10:32 AM   #84
 
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I don't understand why its so hard to understand. Let me put it in plain english

1. It has been determined that Obama was born in Hawaii (which automaticly regardless of his parents immigration status, makes him a natural born citizen).

2. His mother (who is a natural born american citizen) delivered him on US soil, there for, not only is he a citizen, he is a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.

3. His father may have been a Keyan national and a british citizen and by birthright, that entitled Obama to dual citizenship. HOWEVER, unless you apply to exercise that dual citizenship right, you are NOT a citizen of that other country. From my research, Obama has never applied nor exercised the option of dual citizenship. And even if he did, that does not null and void his natural born citizenship status here in the U.S.

4. The arguements that Berg present are only plausable if Obama was not born in the U.S. Only then would the age of his mother at the time of birth matter. However, Berg's case has been previously dismissed and this one will likely follow the same fate, since Obama was born on US soil, not foreign soil.

5. the arguements presented by Donofrio are not valid from my reserch as well. Donofrio has based his arguement on the 14th amendment, which has been used to establish issues of citizenship for children born on US soil to immigrant parents (the key to this issue is that both parents are immigrants or non nationals). However, the fatal flaw in Donofrio's case is that Obama's mother WAS a US citizen (born in Kansas)...which nulifies the issue of his father's immigration status. That coupled with the fact that he was born on US soil, not only gives him citizenship, but gives him Natural Born Citizenship status as birthright.

The fact remains that those people that needed to see his birth certificate HAVE seen it. Not only have they seen it, but they have authenticated it as well. Unfortunately for some people, that simply is not enough. Obama is not required to produce a birth certificate, and while some people think that he has not been forth right with this information, I think that this has little to do with the actual issue of his citizenship, and more to do with the fact that for as many people as he inspires and excites with his message, he scares the holy **** out of a whole lot more.

To be quite honest, if I were in his shoes, unless a court of law mandiates that the birth certificate but turned over, I wouldn't hand it over either.
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Old 12-06-2008, 11:24 AM   #85
 
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i don't own my real birth certificate. i only have the short version.
i didn't even know there was such thing as a long version because the one i received for my daughter was also a short version.
it was only in 2006 (i swear this is true) when i needed to register my child in college that they made me give them her "real" birth certificate.
who knew that she/we even had another version? i actually got in an argument on the phone claiming there was no other birth certificate!
she instructed me to order one from the state capital.
lo and behold, i realized there is another type of birth certificate-the long form.
never knew.
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Old 12-06-2008, 11:30 AM   #86
 
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To be quite honest, if I were in his shoes, unless a court of law mandiates that the birth certificate but turned over, I wouldn't hand it over either.
Me either. To be honest, not doing so really helps the conspiracy theorists. It saves them from having to harp on another issue. This way, they can fuss about this for the next 100 or so years. Or at least until the next 'not American looking enough that everybody knows he/she is citizen without seeing the official documentation' comes along.

I really believe that if it weren't this, it would be something else so let's just keep this one going.
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Old 12-06-2008, 01:04 PM   #87
 
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i don't own my real birth certificate. i only have the short version.
i didn't even know there was such thing as a long version because the one i received for my daughter was also a short version.
it was only in 2006 (i swear this is true) when i needed to register my child in college that they made me give them her "real" birth certificate.
who knew that she/we even had another version? i actually got in an argument on the phone claiming there was no other birth certificate!
she instructed me to order one from the state capital.
lo and behold, i realized there is another type of birth certificate-the long form.
never knew.
Wow is that common practice? I went to a tech school and they were satisfied with my short form COLB. Requiring long form could be discriminatory against adoptees depending upon state laws. There are some states you can't have it at all, or have to jump through hoops to get it.
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Old 12-06-2008, 07:40 PM   #88
 
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Donofrio's case would not put McCain and Obama in the same boat. Obama was born in Hawaii (as concedes Donofrio), but Donofrio argues that Obama is a British citizen due to his father's citizenship. Which, to me, is a bit off-putting. Does Obama's mother's citizenship means nothing? Does this mean that people born in the US who have one parent who is not a citizen, are therefore not citizens either? That could hit home for me, as my mother is not a citizen, but I was born here, and as far as I know, I am a natural born citizen.
These were my thoughts also.....so your father's citizenship determines your citizenship? If you're born in Hawaii, are you not natural born? Say for example your parents are both native/First Peoples.....they're considered nations within ours, so is that person a "natural born citizen"?

This is sounding really odd and out there. This is some wild, bizarro ****.
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Old 12-06-2008, 11:43 PM   #89
 
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My sister was born in a US military hospital in Germany. One of her sons was born in Germany in a German hospital. My sister is a US citizen and my bro-in-law was a Panamanian citizen at the time.

My bro-in-law was born in a US military hospital in Panama to a Panamanian mother and US father. After my sister and her husband came back to the states from Germany, my bro-in-law had to get "naturalized" even though he was born on US soil and his father was a US citizen.

So is the Donforio argument is that the father's citizenship is what counts? If that is the case, my bro-in-law should not have had to get naturalized and what the heck is my nephew's citizenship?

As far as birth certificates go.......don't even ask me where mine is! I think I hav an unofficial one somewhere. I know I was born in Texas in a military hospital.
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:04 AM   #90
 
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^^^^One of the cases though says that his Mom wasn't citizen because she was so young when he was born.
What?
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:11 AM   #91
 
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Well, there is speculation that Obama is Muslim, that his sidekicks are members of Al-Qaida, that he's a traitor and a terrorist too. So I guess we can just add this to the list of specualtion. And I guess he should be addressing all of these points and defending baseless accusations.
LOL, so true, I wonder what's next. Man people just cannot accept the fact that this man was elected and is going to be their president.
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Old 12-07-2008, 08:52 AM   #92
 
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My mother was not yet a citizen when I was born (1975), I was born in the U.S. and I was NEVER naturalized--I was always considered a U.S. citizen. I had a security clearance investigation for work and also while I was in the military and my citizenship was never an issue.

It sounds like the law is subjective to interpretation, however some of these allegations fit the very definition of splitting hairs. It's yet another game of "who is a 'real' American?"

Last edited by gemini; 12-07-2008 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 12-07-2008, 12:58 PM   #93
 
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My mother was not yet a citizen when I was born (1975), I was born in the U.S. and I was NEVER naturalized--I was always considered a U.S. citizen. I had a security clearance investigation for work and also while I was in the military and my citizenship was never an issue.

It sounds like the law is subjective to interpretation, however some of these allegations fit the very definition of splitting hairs. It's yet another game of "who is a 'real' American?"
ITA. CottonCandyCurls, suggest you read up on Joseph McCarthy and the House Un-American Activities Committee of the 1950's.
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Old 12-07-2008, 01:29 PM   #94
 
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^^^^One of the cases though says that his Mom wasn't citizen because she was so young when he was born.
What?

Sorry that's not clear is it? The thinking with one of the lawsuits is that Mrs. Obama wasn't old enough for Barack to gain citizenship through her having citizenship. She would have had to have been 19 when he was born for that to happen but she was 18.
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Old 12-07-2008, 01:50 PM   #95
 
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^^^^One of the cases though says that his Mom wasn't citizen because she was so young when he was born.
What?

Sorry that's not clear is it? The thinking with one of the lawsuits is that Mrs. Obama wasn't old enough for Barack to gain citizenship through her having citizenship. She would have had to have been 19 when he was born for that to happen but she was 18.
So by that argument everyone born to a teenage mother isn't a natural born citizen?

I think there should be laws against anything being this unnecessarily complicated.
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Old 12-07-2008, 03:02 PM   #96
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What?

Sorry that's not clear is it? The thinking with one of the lawsuits is that Mrs. Obama wasn't old enough for Barack to gain citizenship through her having citizenship. She would have had to have been 19 when he was born for that to happen but she was 18.
So by that argument everyone born to a teenage mother isn't a natural born citizen?

I think there should be laws against anything being this unnecessarily complicated.
If the child's born in the U.S., then it's all cool. But if a pregnant 15 year old U.S. citizen runs away to Canada with her Canadian boyfriend, the resulting child wouldn't be a U.S. citizen according to the law. I think that's ********.

If Obama really was born in Kenya (again, ********), then he wouldn't be a U.S. citizen because his father is a Kenyan (British) citizen and his mother wouldn't meet the age requirements to pass her citizenship on to their child. To pass U.S. citizenship to your foreign-born child prior to 1986, you had to be 19 or 21 (you had to have 5 years of citizenship past 14 or 16 [some books say 14, some say 16]). Now I think you have to be 16 years old.
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Old 12-07-2008, 03:37 PM   #97
 
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Since we are talking about it, I just thought I would post the requirements for US citizenship for births abroad. The second situation, which is what would apply to Obama if he were born in Kenya, also applies to my daughter, since I am a US citizen and my husband is not and she was born abroad.

Acquisition of U.S. Citizenship By a Child Born Abroad


Birth Abroad to Two U.S. Citizen Parents in Wedlock: A child born abroad to two U.S. citizen parents acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under section 301(c) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA). One of the parents MUST have resided in the U.S. prior to the child's birth. No specific period of time for such prior residence is required.
Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.
Birth Abroad Out-of-Wedlock to a U.S. Citizen Father: A child born abroad out-of-wedlock to a U.S. citizen father may acquire U.S. citizenship under Section 301(g) INA, as made applicable by Section 309(a) INA provided:
1) a blood relationship between the applicant and the father is established by clear and convincing evidence;
2) the father had the nationality of the United States at the time of the applicant's birth;
3) the father (unless deceased) has agreed in writing to provide financial support for the person until the applicant reaches the age of 18 years, and
4) while the person is under the age of 18 years --
A) applicant is legitimated under the law of their residence or domicile,
B) father acknowledges paternity of the person in writing under oath, or
C) the paternity of the applicant is established by adjudication court.
Birth Abroad Out-of-Wedlock to a U.S. Citizen Mother: A child born abroad out-of-wedlock to a U.S. citizen mother may acquire U.S. citizenship under Section 301(g) INA, as made applicable by Section 309(c) INA if the mother was a U.S. citizen at the time of the child's birth, and if the mother had previously been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year.
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Old 12-08-2008, 08:12 AM   #98
 
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The Supreme Court announced today that it will NOT be hearing the Donofrio case challening Obama's birth certificate. Not a big surprise. I knew they wouldn't hear it. It's nonsense.
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Old 12-08-2008, 08:47 AM   #99
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CottonCandyCurls
I have had doubts about Obama since February. I've had doubts about his citizenship status since late March.
Why is it so important to you that this President-elect NOT be a U.S. Citizen? And if you're convinced he is not, why aren't you reporting it to the FBI or something instead of debating it on a hair board?
Amen! All of this has become mind-numbing and just senseless. I'm gonna duck out of the politics forum for a while. See you on the 4a board....
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Old 12-08-2008, 10:40 AM   #100
 
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Ok, the case people were watching has been thrown out: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28111773/

To which I say, booyah.
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