CottonCandyCurls

I'm sure I'll get flamed for bringing it up.

But many of you may or may not be aware that there have been 16+ lawsuits filed against Obama to produce his vaulted birth certificate. The lawsuits have been piling up since the primaries.

Instead of producing the vaulted long form original at the cost of $10, Obama and the DNC have hired 3 law firms and spent around $1 million to dismiss these cases. He could make all of them look like fools if there is no problem with his records but instead his evasions look suspect.

Three of these lawsuits are on the docket for the Supreme Court. Tomorrow the justices will conference on Leo C. Donofrio vs. Nina Wells, NJ Secretary of State.

The 2008 election continues to be distrurbing and entertaining to say the least.

RedCatWaves

Oh, bullsh1t. You've been listening to Faux News again. Obama produced his birth certificate, long ago. That doesn't stop haters from bringing frivolous lawsuits though. Some people REALLY don't like black guys.

Myradella3

This has been floating around the Internet for over a year. While the RNC might have been too stupid do make it a public issue, no way the Clintons would have let this slip by had it had any real credibility. Even if he was born overseas, his mother's citizenship gave him citizenship.

Please note that I'm not flaming you, I just don't think this has any legs. But it will be fun to see how many people think it does.

curlyjenn10

That's what I was going to say. I thought that was a widely known fact? Guess not (no offense to the OP).

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RedCatWaves

That's the truth. Nobody wanted the presidency more than Hillary. The Clintons dug and dug and dug for dirt, and the best they could come up with was the slight connection with Bill Ayers. If Obama was born out of the country, they would have found it.

CottonCandyCurls

No this is not from fox news. So you can stop with the assumptions, hysterics and crude name calling. This actually has been a low lying story that has been avoided by the left and right news media. It is only getting mentions in the press now because there are several supreme court cases up.

He produced a certification of live birth which is different from the document being asked for. I'm black and I have no problem with black people. But I do find it curious that he's spending so much money to avoid showing the original long form document when "natural born citizen" is a constitutional requirement.

The Hawaii officials have also used vague legalese language when talking about his birth certificate. Again if it's nothing to see why not show it and put this to rest. Let all the people asking for it look like loons and gain some sympathy and gravitas.

Here's a similar scenario.
Imagine I have a slate of candidates for a job at Whitehouse Inc. Mr. Obama passes the interview and impress the committee. Then I ask him for his social security card for proof of residency to meet work requirements. He delays and delays. He left it at his grandma's house, oh he forgot to bring it in last Tuesday. I grow frustrated and tell him I can't give him the job without a proper social. Then puts a digital scan of it on his blog and sends me the link. I say that's not enough, so he decides to sue me because of course he's an American who can work at my company. I'm just an angry racist keeping him from a good job because I asked for something required for the job. Yeah that makes a hell of a lot of sense redcatwaves. You win...not.

Suburbanbushbabe

Snopes

It would be a much more stimulating discussion if posters could post debatable facts that are true. I realize true and fact and redundant, but it seems to be needed here.

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afrosheenqueen

I read about this in my local paper. One of the people suing is a former lawyer in the North East somewhere I think. It is amazing the level of hatred this presidential election uncovered from seemingly normal folks.

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Trenell

Me, too. I was born in Germany. My parents are American. I didn't have to get "my papers" I was automatic.

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CottonCandyCurls

I understand what your saying but the problem is the DNC joined in the dismissal of these lawsuits. They have not been impartial in their behavior whether it is the unusual act of moving their headquarters to Chicago. Or the redistribution of delegates from other candidates to Obama. So while the Clintons might have tried to use it, assuming it's true, remember she avoided more strategies then one. Ask Mark Penn. And she was cocky enough to think she would have glided through the election process, hence her avoiding advice from many political consultants on caucus strategy among other things.

And I'm afraid that you are incorrect that if he was born overseas he would have natural born citizenship. Those are the key words: natural born.

CottonCandyCurls

I'm sorry but Snopes is not an authority on this issue they are neither experts in constitutional law nor are they investigative reporters. I have been to that website before and have found some of their "debunking" incorrect. They are like Wikipedia, take with grains of salt.

Trenell

Natural born means you were born a citizen. You didn't become a citizen through naturalization. I think it's about possible loyality issues.

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sew and sew

Yeah I started to follow that a while ago, and as fringe/lunatic as it may sound, there seems to be area for some questions. It's not because of his skin color either, and I'm actually really glad that you're proving that CottonCandyCurls. It's hard for me, being a white girl, to say the reason for entertaining this isn't about race. Guess it also helps that Alan Keyes, who has a PhD. in Constitutional law is willing to say there's reason for wanting answers.

John McCain's citizenship was also called into question since he was born in the Panama Canal Zone, and he released all necessary information. From a NYT article:
The best material in Obama's favor is an announcement of his birth placed in the Honolulu paper by his grandparents nine days after his birth date. That's not proof, but if it's a valid report which it seems to be, and he wasn't born here, it would mean that his family took steps early on to ensure he would be considered an American citizen. Hawaii state law actually allows for multiple birth certificates to come about in the context of adoption taking place. It's a bit convoluted but it's possible for an individual to actually have more than one certificate of birth from the state of Hawaii. That's one of many caveats about this. Based off that Berg (the Philly lawyer) and others contend that there may be differences between records, casting all the records into question, and what's been shown is not an answer in of itself. As mentioned all this fuss begs the question of why the simplest solution-releasing the information, hasn't been done.

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CottonCandyCurls

I'm not going to claim to be some legal scholar. But there is the jus soli argument of citizenship due to being born on soil of US jurisdiction and then there is the jus sanguinis argument of citzenship by blood.

The phrase "natural born citizen" is constitutionally unique. And most would gather jus soli applies. Either way we will see how things pan out. I'm just puzzled at why no one is allowed to see his birth records. And the only people who have put out artfully constructed statements regarding it. Sealing some of his other records while it raises eyebrows, I can shrug it off. But you must be a natural born citizen to be president. The founders even grandfather-claused themselves because they did not want the highest office of the land to be held by someone with divided loyalties. If that is disregarded then country will open up a pandora's box.

By the way the D'Onofrio case also argues that several other presidential contenders are not eligible, including McCain.
As I said before this electoral cycles gets weirder and weirder but I've got my popcorn.

afrosheenqueen

McCain had his own issues. He was born in the Panama Canal zone to U.S. citizens. A Federal judge had to go to bat for him just this past September.

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CottonCandyCurls

Yes and his natural born citizen status could be questioned as well. This would be a very strange constitutional crisis if it was found that Obama was born in Mombasa like some people are alleging. And if McCain was challenged as well. I suppose Biden would then act as President until someone qualifies. Haha, I'm sure Palin will show up in DC and raise her hand.

Trenell

so even if Obama was born out of the country, it'll be all good.

I just remember being a teen and very concerned that I couldn't become president. A teacher told me that since my parents were citizens, I was fine. Maybe he was wrong. At any rate, if it's not the case, it should be.

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journotraveler

these two links are from factcheck.org. factcheck.org is the site for the annenberg political fact check, a project of the annenberg public policy center of the university of pennsylvania. it's a non-partisan group. their findings:


http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_the_usa.html

and:

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactchec...disclosed.html

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sew and sew

Annenberg's input is cast into question because of the foundation's interests with Obama. In '95 he served as Board Chairman and President of the Annenberg Chicago Challenge and directed how their money was spent (around $60 mil). If you're willing to entertain skepticism with factcheck itself, check out objections taken with their findings.

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CottonCandyCurls

I'm sorry I've looked at those close-ups and they are not satisfactory to me. I'm not a digital specialist but I use photoshop almost every other day. But when I click on the blow-up of the certificate number all the lettering that is not in the border looks unnecessarily strange. Regardless I would want a judge and a forensic expert to have it in hand to look at. In 2008, digital images don't pass muster for me. And if I was in his position I would release it, silence my critics and point out how foolish they have been. Instead it's avoid avoid avoid. That is what creates some doubts.

I also don't know if I would classify Annenberg as non-partisan. The Brookings Institute refers to itself as non-partisan but it's quite clear they lean left. Which is fine, the Brookings Institute produces some good work. But that is not the issue. Every lawsuit that has been put forward is different and has different arguments and angles. And many focus on more than just the birth certificate. I'm sure more details about the cases will come out as things proceed. And it will be interesting to say the least.

Also "factcheck" doesn't discuss at all what westcoastcurls brought up. Hawaii's unique history and their provision that allows for the registration of out-of-state births. Those "out of state births" could become naturalized citizens and they are allowed to have a certification of live birth which is different document all together than the birth certificate being asked for.

Again, if there is nothing there, then there is nothing to worry about. We have entrusted him to protect and defend the country. I don't think it's too much to ask for proof of meeting the requirements. He's over 35 as Bill Clinton slyly pointed out, but the question now is, is he a "natural-born-citizen"?