Anyone watch the president's address to congress tonight?

The peril I was referring to was the stripping down of this image we have for ourselves. Peacemakers, spreaders of democracy, tolerant. Supposedly the polar opposite of some of the finger-biting, uncool reactions of those "bottom of the barrel" people at recent town meetings.

You agreed with me about it being a symptom of a greater peril/problem, but then you went on your own tangent about how there is some deep-seated emotion (anger?) on the right and how Obama is stirring it all up, so we should all "be prepared".

So what were you referring to there? What should we leftists, conglomeration of women and minorities that make up the bulk of the membership here and are not the pulse of the nation, be prepared for...?



What were you referring to?

"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer."

4a, mbl, low porosity, normal thickness, fine hair.

Last edited by curlyarca; 09-10-2009 at 03:29 PM.

I was trying to be lighthearted (it was once said that was his favorite word) but I'm sure Rahm acted professionally.

If you only listen to FOX News and Rush Limbough, you will think everyone agrees with you. YOU are not the pulse of the nation.

What is the peril to come? The wrath of the right? I'm quivering. The Republicans have no viable candidates.
Originally Posted by BB
I think she's referring to violence and assassinations and that ilk. You know, what "real" Americans, the pulse of our nation, resort to when they really mean business.
Originally Posted by curlyarca
I wonder if you can refute my ideas instead of attacking me personally. It really helps in debate.

I have never, ever, not once said anything about violence or assassinations or ever called anyone a "real" American.

Every American citizen is a "real" American. Everyone gets a voice. Isn't it great? And I pray daily for our President, especially for his safety.

Oops, did I say pray?
Originally Posted by Kitschy
Where did I attack you personally here?

You're the one throwing all these red herrings in like:
-impending doom
-whether it's ok to call someone an mf or a liar
-group attacks by dems are ok and individual ones by the gop is not
-mostly women and minorities post here and think they're ahead even though they're not the pulse of the nation.

Whatevs. What did you think about the speech? What do you agree/disagree with in Obamas proposal? What would you like to see changed/not changed?

Because in the meantime, Wilson has apologized twice (via phone and on camera looking nervous), Obama accepted Wilson's apology, Obama addressed nurses and the ANA.

"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer."

4a, mbl, low porosity, normal thickness, fine hair.
The peril I was referring to was the stripping down of this image we have for ourselves. Peacemakers, spreaders of democracy, tolerant. Supposedly the polar opposite of some of the finger-biting, uncool reactions of those "bottom of the barrel" people at recent town meetings.

You agreed with me about it being a symptom of a greater peril/problem, but then you went on your own tangent about how there is some deep-seated emotion (anger?) on the right and how Obama is stirring it all up, so we should all "be prepared".

So what were you referring to there? What should we leftists, conglomeration of women and minorities that make up the bulk of the membership here and are not the pulse of the nation, be prepared for...?



What were you referring to?
Originally Posted by curlyarca
Be prepared for the heated debate perhaps, or the ensuing outcry in the Senate chambers, or 9/12 events, or people yelling in Town Hall meetings.

Things are stirring. I said "be prepared." I don't think I was exactly issuing any sort of threat whatsoever. I was trying to say that we should all know what we stand for and be prepared to defend it. And really, I am trying to be even tempered and level headed with our conversation here. I recognize that we have a difference of opinion.


What is the peril to come? The wrath of the right? I'm quivering. The Republicans have no viable candidates.
Originally Posted by BB

Sarah Palin and Bobby Jindal. Wouldn't that be a winning ticket! All their other viable candidates have been caught with hookers and/or cheating on their wives.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
You forgot the fine governor of Minnesota, Tim Pawlenty.

I guess that doesn't bode well for his candidacy.
Minneapolis, MN

What is the peril to come? The wrath of the right? I'm quivering. The Republicans have no viable candidates.
Originally Posted by BB

Sarah Palin and Bobby Jindal. Wouldn't that be a winning ticket! All their other viable candidates have been caught with hookers and/or cheating on their wives.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
You forgot the fine governor of Minnesota, Tim Pawlenty.

I guess that doesn't bode well for his candidacy.
Originally Posted by Poodlehead

Frankly, Pawlenty would have to do an awful lot to even get people to remember his name. He's quite forgetable.
The peril I was referring to was the stripping down of this image we have for ourselves. Peacemakers, spreaders of democracy, tolerant. Supposedly the polar opposite of some of the finger-biting, uncool reactions of those "bottom of the barrel" people at recent town meetings.

You agreed with me about it being a symptom of a greater peril/problem, but then you went on your own tangent about how there is some deep-seated emotion (anger?) on the right and how Obama is stirring it all up, so we should all "be prepared".

So what were you referring to there? What should we leftists, conglomeration of women and minorities that make up the bulk of the membership here and are not the pulse of the nation, be prepared for...?



What were you referring to?
Originally Posted by curlyarca
Be prepared for the heated debate perhaps, or the ensuing outcry in the Senate chambers, or 9/12 events, or people yelling in Town Hall meetings.

Things are stirring.
Originally Posted by Kitschy

Again, so what? They can scream, cry, stomp their feet, hold their breath til they turn purple...still doesn't put them in power. Elections matter.

The 9/12 Project was an interesting idea...at first. Then Glenn Beck lost his marbles...again (he does it every so often; he apparently can't take sobriety for very long without diving off the deep end. Time to get some more shock treatments Beck, or at least go back to drinking/drugging for a while to regain your semi-sanity).

Anyone who attends Beck's events (or teabagging parties) just looks crazy now.
Be prepared for the heated debate perhaps, or the ensuing outcry in the Senate chambers, or 9/12 events, or people yelling in Town Hall meetings.

Things are stirring. I said "be prepared." I don't think I was exactly issuing any sort of threat whatsoever. I was trying to say that we should all know what we stand for and be prepared to defend it. And really, I am trying to be even tempered and level headed with our conversation here. I recognize that we have a difference of opinion
I'd love to actually hear a debate but it is drowned out by the yelling at Town Hall meetings and outcries in Senate Chambers. Give me some actual things that have you all upset instead of mumbo jumbo. As for the outcry, do you really believe illegal immigrants were going to be covered by the health care reform? What proof do you have of that? *sigh*

If this is the best that can be thrown by the right - appealing to the lowest common denominator - it is truly pathetic. Why do you think you were clobbered in the last election?
A coward is incapable of exhibiting love; it is the prerogative of the brave.

-Mohandas Gandhi
Be prepared for the heated debate perhaps, or the ensuing outcry in the Senate chambers, or 9/12 events, or people yelling in Town Hall meetings.

Things are stirring. I said "be prepared." I don't think I was exactly issuing any sort of threat whatsoever. I was trying to say that we should all know what we stand for and be prepared to defend it. And really, I am trying to be even tempered and level headed with our conversation here. I recognize that we have a difference of opinion
I'd love to actually hear a debate but it is drowned out by the yelling at Town Hall meetings and outcries in Senate Chambers. Give me some actual things that have you all upset instead of mumbo jumbo. As for the outcry, do you really believe illegal immigrants were going to be covered by the health care reform? What proof do you have of that? *sigh*

If this is the best that can be thrown by the right - appealing to the lowest common denominator - it is truly pathetic. Why do you think you were clobbered in the last election?
Originally Posted by BB
+100000

The Republicans had EIGHT YEARS to work on health care. They did nothing. Zich. Zip. Nada. Clinton tried, now Obama is trying. What does that show most people about the Republican party? That they just don't care.


Obamacare is not a blueprint for socialism. You're thinking of the New Testament. ~~ John Fugelsang



I'd love to actually hear a debate but it is drowned out by the yelling at Town Hall meetings and outcries in Senate Chambers. Give me some actual things that have you all upset instead of mumbo jumbo. As for the outcry, do you really believe illegal immigrants were going to be covered by the health care reform? What proof do you have of that? *sigh*

If this is the best that can be thrown by the right - appealing to the lowest common denominator - it is truly pathetic. Why do you think you were clobbered in the last election?
Originally Posted by BB
Proof? They have none, actually. I heard a report today that there was an attempt to investigate illegal immigrants using Medicare a little while back, but they turned up very few actual cases of fraud.

But since when did the Republicans need any proof?

Republican Recipe for ‘Strategery’

- Take One Fresh, Flaming, Hot Button Issue
[And there are so many tasty ones to choose from! You've got: illegal immigrants, end-of-life planning, abortion … Or how about this?: Keeping everything exactly as it is now, always and forever! Or better yet, bring us back to the good old days when everything was perfect, when was that again? What, 1954? Yeah, something like that.]

- Add a generous dose of Baldfaced Lies

- Simmer
[That is, hold a few town meetings, let the Republican Leadership (in the Absence of Real Leadership) rant about it endlessly on their various and sundry talk and radio shows] and before you know it, you'll have …

- DRAMA!

… which, BTW, will also nicely distract everyone from the very real issues that are actually sometimes killing Americans, such as lack of health care when it's needed most. Like when people have cancer or something. That's all. Just cancer.

And it's all so worth it. Just as long as those Libs don't win.
Dems booing Bush in 2005 was wrong and in poor taste. Why was Wilson's behavior worse - for the Republicans, not the Dems? Because now, a name and face can be associated with the crude behavior. It's on tape...he's apologized...he's be criticized (props to the Reps who did so). Joe Wilson did it vs the Dems did it. It was personalized and that never wins in this type of situation.
Dems booing Bush in 2005 was wrong and in poor taste. Why was Wilson's behavior worse - for the Republicans, not the Dems? Because now, a name and face can be associated with the crude behavior. It's on tape...he's apologized...he's be criticized (props to the Reps who did so). Joe Wilson did it vs the Dems did it. It was personalized and that never wins in this type of situation.
Originally Posted by Myradella3

Yeah, it's definitely worse when there is an individual to blame.

Anyone remember the Dixie Chicks and the terrorizing that happened to them when they made an offhand comment about Bush while in Europe. They were practically crucified by the Reps and the right-wing-nut fringe. Their career has never recovered and they probably still get death threats over it.
Wilson attempted to call President Obama to apologize personally but instead ended up speaking to Chief of Staff Rahm Emmanuel"

Shortest conversation on record:
Rahm: "Swim with the fishes"

Wilson: "hello? hello?"

http://public.fotki.com/mj11051/
What you may forget is that there is a great uprising of emotion among the right in this nation.
Originally Posted by Kitschy


So what? It's just a temper tantrum. The right has had their foot on the neck of the nation for the past 8 years and now they're pissed to have lost power. I do not care.

The Dems finally have a chance to fix a few things. The Reps have never done one thing to fix healthcare, and they never will, so if the Dems don't fix it now, it'll never get fixed. The righties will just have to suck it up.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

Exactly. As little as two years ago (before the election campaigns), I would've never dreamed that the Republicans would say "we need to regulate the insurance companies." They are so disingenuous. If their backs were not against the wall, if they had the power, they would not give a rat's ass about health care.

The fact that they are getting people riled up at the townhall meetings, about Obama's speech to school children, and then this...(not to mention the crazy ish that comes out of Fox) tells me they still don't care about health care but know they have to do something.

When it comes to civil rights issues, fairness, etc., if the Dems don't bring up the issues, then nothing gets done.

I used to say that the difference between repubs and dems is-- repubs say there isn't a problem and the dems say there is a problem but really don't do anything about it. Now that the dems are doing something about it and they are in power, the repubs are acting like a bunch of sore losers.---waaaaah!

(Of course, I'm not talking about EVERY republican. I know there's a few cool cats out there but much of their reactions lately have been ridiculous!!!
That's right, I said it! I wear scrunchies!!

I am a sulfate washing, cone slabbing, curly lovin' s.o.b. The CG police haven't caught me yet.


3a/3b
Dems booing Bush in 2005 was wrong and in poor taste. Why was Wilson's behavior worse - for the Republicans, not the Dems? Because now, a name and face can be associated with the crude behavior. It's on tape...he's apologized...he's be criticized (props to the Reps who did so). Joe Wilson did it vs the Dems did it. It was personalized and that never wins in this type of situation.
Originally Posted by Myradella3
But does anyone think there is a distinct difference between booing and calling the President a liar, specifically? Especially when the President is not a liar, according to anyone who has read the bill?

The fundamental difference here is that Joe Wilson is a racist. Congressional Democrats were not racist when they booed Bush, they were just being disrespectful. And, in fact, the only reason we need to discuss the whole illegal immigrant "problem" with health care is because congressmen and their constituents are just that - racist. Anyone who knows a damn thing about health economics knows that nothing is going to change by not allowing undocumented immigrants to get subsidized health insurance. Taxpayers will still be paying for them. And, in fact, we'll be paying MORE for them when they show up to the emergency room in really bad shape because they couldn't afford to go see a primary care doctor a few months earlier. And this is fundamentally one of the reasons why our health care system is so expensive now.

So, yeah, racist. Racist and stupid.
CG since 07/26/09
Joe Wilson says he's not going to keep apologizing. That it's over. Commentators are saying let it go. If Mr. Wilson feels that way, fine - just be consistent. Don't autograph pictures of yourself yelling 'you lie'. Don't accept funds from people who are pleased that you said it.

And don't get angry at the daughter of racist because her father raped her mother.
Jimmy Carter on Joe Wilson:

"I think it's based on racism," Mr. Carter said at a town-hall-style meeting at his presidential center in Atlanta. "There is an inherent feeling among many in this country that an African-American should not be president."
[...]
"Those kind of things are not just casual outcomes of a sincere debate on whether we should have a national program on health care," he said. "It's deeper than that."

"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer."

4a, mbl, low porosity, normal thickness, fine hair.
Jimmy Carter on Joe Wilson:
"Those kind of things are not just casual outcomes of a sincere debate on whether we should have a national program on health care," he said. "It's deeper than that.
"
Originally Posted by curlyarca

He's saying what I've been thinking.

And this morning I heard that Dems are now being accused of distracting from the ongoing health care debate by calling people out on racism.

There was an ongoing health care debate? Where!? When!?

Another red herring, courtesy the Republican Party.
Dems booing Bush in 2005 was wrong and in poor taste. Why was Wilson's behavior worse - for the Republicans, not the Dems? Because now, a name and face can be associated with the crude behavior. It's on tape...he's apologized...he's be criticized (props to the Reps who did so). Joe Wilson did it vs the Dems did it. It was personalized and that never wins in this type of situation.
Originally Posted by Myradella3
But does anyone think there is a distinct difference between booing and calling the President a liar, specifically? Especially when the President is not a liar, according to anyone who has read the bill?

The fundamental difference here is that Joe Wilson is a racist. Congressional Democrats were not racist when they booed Bush, they were just being disrespectful. And, in fact, the only reason we need to discuss the whole illegal immigrant "problem" with health care is because congressmen and their constituents are just that - racist. Anyone who knows a damn thing about health economics knows that nothing is going to change by not allowing undocumented immigrants to get subsidized health insurance. Taxpayers will still be paying for them. And, in fact, we'll be paying MORE for them when they show up to the emergency room in really bad shape because they couldn't afford to go see a primary care doctor a few months earlier. And this is fundamentally one of the reasons why our health care system is so expensive now.

So, yeah, racist. Racist and stupid.
Originally Posted by mandatoryfun
According to the Democrats who have read the bill, he's not a liar. According to the Republicans who have read the bill, he is. Truth is, has ANYone read the entire bill? I doubt it. I've read parts of it because a coworker had to write a term paper on it for school. I didn't see anything about covering minorities in it, but the death panels were clearly there. Page 425 I believe. Are they called death panels? Of course not.

My guess is everyone is lying a bit because I feel at this point, most of them only care about power and staying in office. The idea that either party cares soooo much about US is laughable to me.
According to the Democrats who have read the bill, he's not a liar. According to the Republicans who have read the bill, he is. Truth is, has ANYone read the entire bill? I doubt it. I've read parts of it because a coworker had to write a term paper on it for school. I didn't see anything about covering minorities in it, but the death panels were clearly there. Page 425 I believe. Are they called death panels? Of course not.
Originally Posted by Rheanna


Whoa, hold on a minute.

Why are you saying "covering minorities" when the Joe Wilson thing was about illegal immigrants?






As to the "death panels," are you talking about the end-of-life planning coverage?

If so, do you object to that notion that people should be able to decide how they want to be cared for in the end stages of a terminal illness?

Before you answer, please consider that similar language is in most major health care insurance plans. It's across-the-board industry-wide, basic standard of care kind of stuff.

Last edited by wild~hair; 09-26-2009 at 01:20 PM.
Well ****, I did say minorities. Sorry. I had a crushing migraine and wrote that right before I went to take a nap and try to recover from it. I was reading numerous other threads too, about race. What I meant was obviously illegals, not minorities. Sorry.

End of life planning in regards to a patient deciding, with their doctor, is, of course a common occurence. End of life planning decided by a "panel" of people who will decide what procedures you qualify for is a whole other story to me. I want my medical decisions to be between me and my doctor, not a panel of people and a "commissioner."

Last edited by Rheanna; 09-26-2009 at 04:25 PM. Reason: Typed "write" for "right." I give up; going back to bed, lol.

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